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Posts posted by cinepro

  1. 13 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

    No, I had no idea.  So the joke is on me for innocently thinking that there actually will be sequels?

    You're really missing out. The Babylon Bee is my favorite satirical site. It's satire from a Christian/Conservative viewpoint, but they poke fun at all the different christian sects (including LDS; you might want to avoid those), as well as the more annoying aspects of Conservatism.


    • Haha 1
  2. 17 hours ago, InCognitus said:

    I've always considered this to be a nomenclature issue for the Jaradites or Nephites, and not a translation issue, although the translation consideration may compound the problem.   If you arrive in a new world and see something that reminds you of a horse or elephant, you may call it a horse or elephant for lack of a better word.  If that was the case, the Reformed Egyptian word for "horse" or "elephant" may have been used in the Book of Mormon text.

    But that still leaves the translation problem. If the translation is tied that closely to the actual text (the word for "horse" or "elephant" must be translated as "horse" or "elephant", even if it's referring to a different animal), then how is it possible to have 19th century artifacts or influences in the translation?

    Ultimately, you have two different translation theories: the "loose" translation and the "tight" translation, and defenders must insist that both were used, with Joseph ping-ponging back and forth between a tight translation and a loose translation. Such an elastic theory might be useful for defending the belief that it is an ancient document, but I'm not sure if it actually makes sense.

    • Like 1
  3. 17 hours ago, pogi said:

    Except that vitamin D is hardly absorbed through supplementation.  The best way to make it bioavailable is to get it as Rongo suggests - "sunshine".  That is entirely free and wont be wasted in your urine.  

    What's your definition of "hardly absorbed"? Because there appear to be several studies that show  supplements are more-than-hardly absorbed, depending on the delivery method.


    According to our data, amounts of vitamin D3 increased in the blood serum of all treated animal groups in proportion to time, during vitamin supplementation, until the 7th day (Figure 3). As early as after 3 days of supplementation, microencapsulated and oil-based vitamin D3 increased vitamin levels in the blood by almost three times: The control level of vitamin D3 in the rat serum ranged from 36.49 ± 4.12 to 40.5 ± 3.05 nmol/L, meanwhile in the microencapsulated and oil-based treatment groups it got up to 143.35 ± 14.72 and 150.85 ± 35.77 nmol/L, respectively. The highest vitamin D3 concentration in the rat blood serum was registered in the oil-based vitamin D3 group on day 7—the tested vitamin concentration reached 198.93 ± 51.6 nmol/L. Comparing the duration of the effect of all vitamin vehicles, microencapsulated SmartHit IV™ supplementation vitamin D3 concentrations in the blood serum remained constant for the longest time (up to the 14th day).





    Vitamin D supplementation significantly increased the serum 25(OH)D levels in both groups. Miscible form of vitamin D3 appears to be better in achieving higher levels of serum 25(OH)D than that observed with a similar dose of fat-soluble vitamin D3. Further studies with different dose regimens are required to establish its efficacy over the conventionally used fat-soluble vitamin D3.




    Subjects in both the groups had a significant increase in their serum 25(OH)D levels following [Vitamin D] supplementation.




  4. 15 minutes ago, Emily said:

    If you wish to think of the word "elephant" in the context of translating text of an ancient language and you don't have a word for a particular animal in your modern vocabulary, you could potentially include any animal that might be visually similar to an “elephant”.


    That analogy only works for translations being done where the translator is fluent in both languages.

    In the case of the Book of Mormon, Joseph Smith didn't actually read Reformed Egyptian. And the translation process was precise enough to convey words that Joseph Smith didn't know, so it wasn't limited to words Joseph Smith had in his vocabulary.

    I mean, once you have a process that can convey words like "Coriantumr", "Zemnarihah" and "Riplakish" (not to mention "cumom" and "curelom"), it's kind of hard to say that the translation process couldn't convey words like "tapir" or "chinchilla."

  5. 1 hour ago, rongo said:

    I tell people taking vitamins and supplements that they have expensive urine. :) 

    I'm with you. If you have a good, balanced diet, adequate sleep, exercise, and drink a lot of water (I started taking water seriously after my kidney stone), that's the best thing you can do for your health. And sunshine --- taking care not to get sunburn. 

    I don't have any "studies" to back it up, but it makes sense to me that getting your vitamins through food (and sunlight) is more effective than swallowing pills. I think you eliminate most of it that way. 

    Except for Vitamin D.


    COVID-19 is characterized by marked variability in clinical severity. Vitamin D had recently been reviewed as one of the factors that may affect the severity in COVID-19. The objective of current study is to analyze the vitamin D level in COVID-19 patients and its impact on the disease severity.

    This all translates into increased mortality in vitamin D deficient COVID-19 patients. As per the flexible approach in the current COVID-19 pandemic authors recommend mass administration of vitamin D supplements to population at risk for COVID-19.


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  6. I just stumbled across Kate Kelly's Twitter feed, and in between her far-left musings, she's shared her thoughts on Dehlin and the recent brouhaha. Here are some of the more interesting comments for those who are interested.

    I wonder what the future of his brand is in the exMo world...




    When someone is abusive they attack & discredit ppl who know— in order to stop anyone from listening to what they have to say. I have seen this many times w John Dehlin, including to the woman who filed a sexual harassment lawsuit against him. He told me she was "crazy."

    Since he can't make the info not true, he wants people to believe those who have it are liars. Again, this is a common tactic for abusers. For example, Harvey Weinstein went to great lengths to discredit his accusers— that's how he was able to get away w it for so long.

    John Dehlin is very, very skilled at creating a victim narrative. He is a master at creating drama & noise to distract from legitimate critiques + making himself the center of attention. In every case (inconceivably), he manages to raise money off of his alleged "victimization."

    Several very credible women (incl Kristy Money & myself) have voiced concerns over his behavior & it's catching up with him. He's having an increasingly hard time demonizing & dismissing trustworthy, straightforward people (who otherwise seem like they should be on his side).

    I have, of course, been blocked by him. But he often uses women as go-betweens to try & get me to "forgive" or "make amends" with him. This is gross for a whole host of reasons, but mostly bc they try to insinuate I don't care abt the community as a whole bc I won't shut up.

    Abusive men try to twist things & say that it's truth-tellers who HURT the community by TELLING the truth... rather than the person *doing* the actual action they are telling folks about. You'd be surprised how effective this tactic is.

    His bread & butter is taking advantage over very vulnerable people in a really hard transition (cult exit) in their life. I just wish that men who benefit so incredibly much from vulnerable people in the community didn't ALWAYS get the benefit of the doubt over women.

    Gadflys always attract extreme opinions. John Dehlin does get a lot of vitriolic hate-comments & videos. We all do. It's awful & it comes with the territory. But, some of the critiques (particularly from people who once knew & trusted him, like me) ARE worth examining.

    Back in May 2017 when I questioned the ethics of Mormon Stories paying women far less than men, John Dehlin went from BFFs to ENEMY-mode in the space of one, single day. It was a complete & total Jekyll & Hyde in less than 24 hours.

    In many ways I've put some healthy distance between myself & Mormonism. I save my energy for new projects. John Dehlin doesn't have other projects. His status as an X-Mormon pseudo-celebrity is all he's got. That's why he goes unhinged when that precarious status is threatened.

    Many vulnerable people look to him as the one throwing them a life raft in the choppy sea that is leaving-Mormonism. I worry about someone who sucks up so much in the way of $$, attention, free labor (particularly of women) & cannot do ANY self-reflection that's not performative.

    He's a flawed dude who routinely spirals into self-loathing fueled tirades on the internet. He's neither saint nor devil. Neither am I. However, he is an expert as monetizing everything, so I have no doubt he'll figure out a way to monetize this most recent pity party.

    There are incredibly talented, interesting & amazing podcasts & communities cropping up every day in post-Mormonism. THERE ARE NO PROPHETS. Isn't that the point? It's time we reconsider giving so much attention to one person who has done & has the potential to do so much harm.

    It's important for me to speak up bc in the past I was known for speaking up for John Dehlin. People told me about sexist, racist, homophobic stuff he said or really problematic things he did to others & I said, "that's not my experience with him." I regret it.

    One woman came to me & told me she was a former employee & filed a sexual harassment lawsuit against John Dehlin w her state’s Human Rights Commission. I went to him directly & he convinced me she was “crazy” & her claim had no merit. I continued to support him. I regret it.

    In our culture our brains are already wired by our socialization under patriarchy to reflexively doubt women's claims & require supporting evidence for them beyond what we require for men's claims. Both men & women tend to be more skeptical of women's accounts. I regret this.




    • Like 3
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  7. 35 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

    Perhaps, but, then, ought one not make too big of a deal out of something of which one should not make too big of a deal.  I'm not condoning what Kwaku and Co. did, but, of his own choice, Mr. Dehlin has made himself a public figure.  A lot of public figures wish to court publicity and celebrity when it suits them, while, on the other hand, they wish to remain free to shun publicity and celebrity when it does not suit them.  That isn't the way it works.  Again, while I'm not condoning what Kwaku & Co. did, Mr. Dehlin, of his own choice, is not a public figure but ... Mr. Dehlin, of his own choice, is a public figure period.

    My objection to the Basterds video wasn't based on the assumption that Dehlin was a private individual and should have special protections from ridicule.

    My objection is based on the assumption (fact?) that he is a human being.

    • Like 1
  8. 1 hour ago, juliann said:

    Cinepro. Get your facts straight!  FM didn't retweet anything. Go after them for what they did, not what a couple of kids did on their own twitter feed. 

    You are factually correct.

    Unfortunately, the facts don't support the perception. If Kwaku and Cardon had never retweeted and tacitly approved of the video, you'd be correct. It was some lone nutball who got a little carried away. So good for you, you've got the facts on your side. Unfortunately, this is the internet, and the facts aren't worth the paper they're printed on. The only thing that is important is perception.

    And the perception is that Cardon and Kwaku work to represent FAIR in some capacity. Part of that may be because FAIR has been posting their videos under the FAIR name. You and I might understand the nuances of content creation, independent contractors, work-for-hire, subbrands, re-tweets and plausible deniability.

    But this is the first thing people see on the video that was promoted by the same people that are making the videos mentioned in the meme.


    So if you're offering a preview of FAIR's defense ("It wasn't us - we would never do that!"), then I'll save FAIR the effort and let them know that's weak sauce.

    And to be clear, I am going after FAIR for what they did. They hitched their cart to content creators that are going to burn the brand down to the ground.

    • Like 1
  9. 31 minutes ago, Judd said:

    So if they thought it was funny, and knew what they were referencing when they said TITS, but they themselves didn’t intend to name the show that, they never would have retweeted it?

    If a church leader retweets an interview or article that makes reference in it to being a Mormon, does that mean they approve of the name again?

    The Church leader would certainly be acknowledging that the term "Mormon" is understood to apply to whatever it was discussing.

  10. 1 hour ago, Ipod Touch said:

    In reality, what is the worst that happens here?  Banned from Twitter and YouTube?  And that probably more due to copyright infringement more than anything else.  No serious person believes that this video was an actual threat.  It's a joke.  A stupid joke, but a joke.

    John calling the cops is the biggest boomer move I've seen in a long time.

    You and I are both speaking about this hypothetically. We are both participating under aliases. Life is good.

    I'm not fan of Dehlin. I've been critical of him for 20 years. I think he's a dunderheaded doofus. I think his interviews are meandering and oftentimes filled with non-sequiturs.

    But I can only imagine the feeling of seeing a video of an actor labeled "(insert cinepro's real name)" brutally clubbed to death.

    Maybe that's no big deal to others. I think it's a big deal.

    • Like 3
  11. 1 hour ago, Judd said:

    Did someone affiliated with their videos make the meme or did they share something someone else made/shared? If it was someone affiliated with the show then yes, it backs up your point about invalidating discussion regarding the acronym. But if not...

    The way social media works is that if you share something (without commenting otherwise), you are endorsing what you share.

  12. I have to admit, I love how TITS took all the conversations and defenses of the last few days ("They don't support the acronym...", "They are just being edgy like the youth want...", "This is the new direction of apologetics...")  and did a "Hold my root beer" with a video of a guy labeled "John Dehlin" getting his head bashed in with a baseball bat labeled "TITS" (referring to the This Is The Story podcast), with FAIR labeled as an encouraging onlooker.

    I've been following apologetics for 30 years (since the days of "The Truth about the Godmakers" and Dan Petersen's "Offenders for a Word"), and never in my wildest dreams could I have imagined it would come to this.

    If FAIR represents LDS apologetics, then LDS apologetics has just jumped the shark. I honestly feel sorry for everyone who spent decades building the brand and then watched them hand the keys to the three stooges.

    FWIW, Cardon Ellis should have "Requires Adult Supervision" tattooed on his forehead. Whoever bought his sales pitch for this at FAIR is a sucker.

    • Like 3
  13. Somehow I've ended up in the Mormon Stories Facebook group, and if anyone ever needs evidence for mental illness among former members of the Church, their reactions to this could be exhibit A.

    I think the theory du jour is that this is a plan by President Nelson to increase his control over Church members during the pandemic, with an additional dose of gaslighting thrown in...because it's always "gaslighting."

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  14. On 10/4/2020 at 5:36 AM, gav said:

    Based on the tone of the first two sessions of conference I don't see November's election and the events that follow being very smooth in the USA.

    I don't live there so "I don't have dog in this fight" but we have had a talk in both sessions so far on temporal and spiritual preparedness. Others on unity, leaving behind competitive cultural aspects and some very strong words around getting out and staying out of the current political instabilities and turmoil. Others on adversity and testing. I don't remember the twelve getting too involved in the political vagaries of the day in the past, so this focus on current affairs by many of the twelve seems portentous.

    These seem to be more direct focus than usual on these types of themes or perhaps my confirmation bias is just a little hyper sensitive in these areas lately

    If you don't have a dog in the fight, then it probably isn't Confirmation Bias.

    It would more likely be an Availability Bias, where things that are more recently emphasized and discussed come to mind more quickly, so when you hear a statement in General Conference you link it to things that have prominently been in the news (like the upcoming US election.)


    Availability Bias

    • Upvote 1
  15. When it comes to the Second Coming, I think this is one of the best talks I've heard:



    My generation was not immune either from the effects of what I call Second-Coming fever. As young missionaries, some of us serving in the Italy Milan Mission speculated that 1974 would be a critical year—and possibly the very year of the Second Coming. We were highly imaginative as we wove together a tapestry of various bits of data, including the facts that the April annual general conference that year was to be the 144th annual conference of the Church and President Spencer W. Kimball, the twelfth president of the Church, would be sustained as prophet, seer, and revelator in a special solemn assembly to be held on April 6. What better day than this, a day filled with historical tradition and scripturally significant numbers such as 12 and 144, for the Lord to return to earth to begin His millennial reign? You may laugh, but we took our wild speculation very seriously. Of course that historic and spiritually uplifting conference has come and gone, and we are still here. (See CR, April 1974, or Ensign, May 1974.)

    Even today I encounter scores of people who believe they will witness the Second Coming in their lifetime. For my part, I am now somewhat reserved and wiser. I teach my students these guiding principles: prepare a will, buy life insurance, put funds away in a retirement program, and, if they really want to be nice to their family, purchase a pre-need funeral program that includes a cemetery plot! For many of my students, this last bit of advice is a little morbid, but it makes my point. Live today as if you will meet Jesus this evening, but plan your life as though you will live to be 100 years old.



    • Upvote 1
  16. Not sure if this ever got discussed here, but since it was such a big discussion back in 2018, I wanted to make sure everyone saw how this turned out.



    The plaintiffs dropped the suit, their attorney Craig Vernon told the station, after a recent Utah Supreme Court ruling “eviscerated” their case. That decision deemed that a new state law removing the statute of limitations in civil suits alleging sexual abuse could not be applied retroactively.


    • Like 4
  17. 2 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

    There is currently a rumor of a scholarly work being undertaken that will soon be published that exposes the influence of Adam Clarke’s Bible Commentary in the Book of Mormon. Specifically the Book of Mormon Isaiah chapters. 

    Assuming that this supposed scholarly paper is successful in finding such influence, how exactly does one successfully navigate its influence in a record that claims ancient origins?  

    Wouldnt its inclusion be further evidence that the Book of Mormon is a 19th century work and not based on an actual history?

    Where did you hear this rumor?

    • Like 2
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