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rongo

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Everything posted by rongo

  1. They are women, Juliann. My wife just had one of them over this Saturday. There are gender differences, even spelled out in the Proclamation (preside, nurture, primarily responsible, etc.). Those who insist otherwise are studiously seeing an emperor without clothes, contra to most other people's experience. Most people "in the pews" at Church would rather have male priesthood leaders, hands down. Maybe not in Jana Reis's circle of friends or at Claremont, but those aren't normative.
  2. Also, if the policy was a revelation, as then-Elder Nelson was at great pains to portray it as, then it shouldn't have been reversed and abandoned after only three years, regardless of member unwillingness to accept it. The same is true of the "Mormon" thing. If it was a revelation, as President Nelson has made clear, then the Church shouldn't be quietly putting in the handbook that it is "acceptable" to say Mormon, and the Brethren themselves shouldn't use Latter-day Saint or LDS as their primary way of discussing the Church or its members. If it's really a revelation, then heaven and e
  3. I still think that the policy was a solution in search of a problem. How many gay-married couples, then or now, want and demand ordinances for their children? I have a hard time envisioning a groundswell of people "in the pews" agitating against the policy. I think it was a) the leak, b) the ham-handed handling of the leak, and then c) the existence of the policy itself that whipped "the usual suspects" into a frenzy over it. I think if the Church had just left it alone, it would have died down. I don't think that (other than the policy's existence) very many people at all were directly affect
  4. How would that work in practice, though? I think trying to "policy change" it without pretending to a formal revelation would open up more cans of worms that it would "close." I also think our recent penchant for explaining away things as "just a policy, not revelation" is problematic, and it could be something like this that would blow the powder keg open. “I don’t know that it’s possible to distinguish between policy and doctrine in a church that believes in continuing revelation and sustains its leader as a prophet.” Dallin H. Oaks, interview with the Times-News, June 9, 1988.
  5. That's just it. Setting aside whether or not it's God's will or not, there really isn't a big movement for it. If there was a big movement for it, whether or not it was God's will would still be an important question, but aside from that, it would be different if it was such an issue it was tearing the Church apart. This is nowhere close to being the case.
  6. I think many, many more would not be thrilled. And many, many women as well. I've shared this before, but my wife and I have discussed this hypothetical with many friends who have also served in various callings, (primary, YW, RS presidents, etc.). None of these women like the idea of a female bishop, and they specifically pointed out that there would be real difficulties in confessions to a female bishop (female rivalry, worry about being judged by a woman in the ward, etc.). In their view, it's much better having the priesthood duties the way they are for a number of reasons. And, it s
  7. This is true of everything, since they won't test anything on pregnant women. If and when something is considered, it's a "risk/benefit" analysis.
  8. Ward clerks also participate in priesthood functions like disciplinary councils. One might possibly make a case for assistant clerk over finances, but then you would have to have additional male "chaperones" around per policy when working with the bishop on finances (in situations where it's just the bishop and the finance clerk). Otherwise, you'd have people up in arms about the bishop being alone with a woman.
  9. This is a good point. The Brethren have, for the present, shut the door on women ordination by framing it as "women work with priesthood authority in callings, but not with priesthood office." This could change in the future, though, especially if a president views things like Sister Nelson described ("He's wanted to do these things for a long time, and now that he's the president, he can do them!"). It would be interesting to see what would happen to the recent focus on unanimity with drastic changes like this. I think the current framing, as you mentioned, nips it in the bud unless a gr
  10. That was still a) patriarchal, and b) heterosexual. We are so tied to the principles in the Proclamation on the Family (which principles pre-dated the issuing of the proclamation by an eternity of years), that we can't simply say, "Today is a new day with a new way. Forget everything we've taught about this. We acted with limited light, but now we have a flood of light" about same-sex marriage or the law of chastity. Trying to do that would push even those who unquestioningly believe whatever the Church currently teaches to the breaking point. It would also cut to the core of whether claimed r
  11. I don't think this will happen, but I'm no longer as confident about this as I used to be. I can see anything happening and simply chalked up to "continuing revelation." The problem with these more radical changes is that the Church would crater in commitment and vitality. Community of Christ is not a good goal to shoot for, and it is not an exemplar to emulate. Do you know any members of CoC? When we worry about the retention of our youth, we have no idea. Their youth have no reason to stay in the flock and not gravitate towards other Protestant churches. The ones who still believe in t
  12. That's pretty much what a "proselytizing" mission is now. They spend a lot of time on genealogy and service (and Facebook), and tracting is not much of a thing in most areas. It sounds like the youth is really looking for something more official than that, though, where he/she would officially be in this section during this time, and that section during that time. As far as I know, it's more all-or-nothing than that. i.e., you're either a service missionary, or a "proselytizing" missionary.
  13. I don't think the plan works with limited results. You have to have a Savior who can "go all the way" and perform the infinite atonement. Under the Brigham Young/Orson Pratt idea, the saviors (multiple) can only be the firstborn of multiple wives (superior intelligence). Each world also needs its own tempter, a high-ranking, powerful-but-ambitious-and-evil son (multiple). Under the Brigham Young/Heber C. Kimball "potters wheel" idea, you never run out of candidates for the adversary because sons of perdition are unmade and start over with their uncreated evil intelligence. And, under Jose
  14. YES! I thought I loved my fellow man before my mission, but I didn't know what I didn't know about that until mission service.
  15. Yes, in the sense that they "talk." The oneness of the Godhead is such that they are of one will and mind; what one would do, the others would do as well. When the Spirit told Nephi to slay Laban, the Father and the Son were of one accord on that.
  16. Many minds are better than one. Can you please help add to this starter list of benefits of serving a mission? Not in order of importance (which varies by the individual, anyway) . . . --- Minimized distractions at that time of life, for study Being away from home/parents (on one's own) Cooking, cleaning, and keeping house Budgeting and finances Intensive gospel study Interacting with a variety of people Dealing with adversity Getting along (or trying to get along) with people who drive you nuts (or you sometimes even have to work hard not to hate)
  17. Nah, already been debunked. Whole thing is funny, but go to time stamp 4:38 for Masonic handshakes.
  18. Mutations can go both ways, though; people are assuming that mutations will always be in the direction of more virulent. I think that the lockdown method not only simply delays the inevitable in the name of "flattening the curve," it also may lead to prolonging deadly strains. If allowed to circulate naturally, it seems like natural selection would select in favor of strains that infect but don't kill the host (since the virus is then exposed to more robust immune systems with minimal cytokine storms, over all). On the other hand, keeping it away from the greatest number of people (ideall
  19. That **is** the text of the typescript I read in 1995. Thanks for posting an online link.
  20. A high percentage of general authorities from Utah say the "h" in "wheat" or "white." While not foolproof (most people don't live in Utah), this can be a telltale sign that someone is LDS. Transplants to Utah don't do this, and I don't think multi-generational non-Mormons do, either. There are other vocal "tells" that I think we might pick up on, consciously or subconsciously. It isn't just looks or "feel."
  21. The first chapter of Nibley's "Temple and Cosmos" is a transcript of a talk he gave in Aspen Grove, Utah. He quotes from scientists regarding the apparent suspension of the laws of thermodynamics (e.g., giant tanks built underground to detect proton decay. The proton should have decayed by now, yet here we are and here the universe is. Scientists are puzzled as to why it is so hard to find evidence of protons decaying). He makes the point that something is keeping the relentless forces of disorder at bay, and that is the atonement ("there is a [time and] space granted unto man" so that we can
  22. Sigh. My nephew is in the Adriatic North Mission. He's been lucky to serve in Croatia, Serbia, and Montenegro, so he's been able to use both the Latin and the Cyrillic alphabet (Serbian and Croatian is the same spoken language, but they disagree. ). He was the branch president in Montenegro for about a year, and was sad to leave, but once you cross the borders, there's no going back (Covid conditions). He is currently in Serbia. Norway is the same. As missionaries go home, they are only replaced by random missionaries, one here and one there, so the missions are dwindling in nu
  23. A girl from my stake just received her call to Lansing, Michigan, reporting to the Provo MTC in March. That is surprising to me, given that General Conference is virtual for a third straight time. I wonder if it will be nowhere near peak capacity (very probable), and I wonder when it will be at peak capacity. It's also possible that they will be notified last minute that they will be doing home MTC, too.
  24. I don't think it squares with reality for most people, though. If you have a lead role (or even if it's not a lead role), and it's a live performance, they can't keep rescheduling the show until every single cast member isn't sick. It's now or never. Or, if you have an important game (or, even just a "regular" game for most people), you're going to play in it. I don't think it's realistic to expect games to be indefinitely postponed, rescheduled, or cancelled because of a fever. As far as work, there is a big drop-off between me, "live in concert," and a substitute. I really like my job
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