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Restformationist

Was God once a man?

Was God once a man?  

109 members have voted

  1. 1. Was God once a man?

    • Yes
      64
    • No
      28
    • Not sure
      17


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Where is Paul Osborne when you need him!!!

I think Brent needs some biblical education:

The late Raymond Brown [Catholic Theologian] who was considered by many in the world to be the Worlds leading scholar/Theologian on the Gospel of John stated regarding John 4:24 -" This is not an essential definition of GOD, but of GOD'S dealing with men; it means that GOD is spirit tward men because he gives the spirit [xivv 16] which begets them anew". There are in fact two other descriptions in Johns writtings : "GOD is light [1 JN 1:5], GOD is Love [ JN 4:8], thou no one has argued that GOD is a light or a species of Love . In short one miust worship the Father "Through the Spirit" which he has given to the Church [John 14: 16], there no hint of suggestion that he "himself" is a "spirit". See Anchor Bible, John, 172.

Hmmm... So John 4:24 doesn't say what Brent thinks it says!

Paul Calls the ressurected Man Jesus Christ a Spirit. Angels are even called spirits. And Im pretty sure that even men are called spirits. Hmm but that contradicts what Christ says in Luke. Could there be different classes of "Spirits"? Ones that have bodies and ones that do not? Ghosts anybody?

Do you think you could be more respectful?

I'm not an anti-Mormon. I'm just trying to understand what you believe.

God exists in a realm higher than 3rd-dimensional space. I think it's safe to say he is not physical, or at least not in the sense we understand it.

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Sorry... I'll try and do better...

God exists in a realm higher than 3rd-dimensional space. I think it's safe to say he is not physical, or at least not in the sense we understand it.

Hmmm... reference please?! Sounds like you are mixing science fiction with the Bible... according to my baptist friend thats what Mormons do.

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1 Corinthians 15:40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.

As I said - God exists in a state beyond space and time.

I have no doubt He has a body of sorts, I just disagree it is physical because it is probably beyond what we're capable of grasping. Also, I believe God can be anywhere He wants to -- He's not limited to one place at any given time.

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Sorry... I'll try and do better...
God exists in a realm higher than 3rd-dimensional space. I think it's safe to say he is not physical, or at least not in the sense we understand it.

Hmmm... reference please?! Sounds like you are mixing science fiction with the Bible... according to my baptist friend thats what Mormons do.

Actually, I am mixing it with scientific fact. I also base it on the fact that God is all-powerful, not an exalted man stuck in a physical throne.

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Zakuska,

Who created this exalted man who you worship?

If you worship an exalted man stuck in a physical throne, I have to suspect we worship a different God.

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Ok, it appears some people do genuinely believe God is not eternal, but was once a mortal, sinful man just like me. (Correct me if I've misunderstood.) To those people I ask, who created this exalted man (God) of ours? Wouldn't there have to be a high God who created all things, including God?

Was Jesus a "sinful man just like me"? This is the automatic response that makes LDS leary of using the word "man" to describe a mortal experience. It also exposes us as unbelievers...do we believe in sanctification or not? If so, it shouldn't matter if God was a "sinner"...right?

You are asking questions that no one knows. These same questions were being asked early on because there is an admonition from Irenaeus warning against speculating about higher Gods. As a Mormon, you can believe whatever you want on these issues...we have no creeds. The only God we know is the God spoken of in the Bible. After that...you are on your own.

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Kenngo1969 Posted on Jul 13 2005, 02:26 PM

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Lets not pick an choose I love context:

1 Cor 15

35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.

They come with the same body that they are ressurected with. Christ shows us that this body is made of flesh and bones. It can eat. It can walk through walls. (Not to far out to imagine the star trek transporter) But this verse tells us that the Christ who had a body of flesh and bones was a "quickening spirit". So what precludes Christs father from having a body just like Christ did? And why does this contradict Luke? Theres also one in 2 Corinthinas.

Also notice that there are three levels of reward in the ressurection.

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Ok, it appears some people do genuinely believe God is not eternal, but was once a mortal, sinful man just like me. (Correct me if I've misunderstood.) To those people I ask, who created this exalted man (God) of ours? Wouldn't there have to be a high God who created all things, including God?

Was Jesus a "sinful man just like me"? This is the automatic response that makes LDS leary of using the word "man" to describe a mortal experience. It also exposes us as unbelievers...do we believe in sanctification or not? If so, it shouldn't matter if God was a "sinner"...right?

You are asking questions that no one knows. These same questions were being asked early on because there is an admonition from Irenaeus warning against speculating about higher Gods. As a Mormon, you can believe whatever you want on these issues...we have no creeds. The only God we know is the God spoken of in the Bible. After that...you are on your own.

No. I am not referring to Christ. :P I am asking if you believe God was a mortal man BEFORE becoming God the Creator. I'm asking if God was a man like you and me, who by works reached the 3rd degree of Glory. That is what Joseph implied in the King Follett Discourse. Could you explain?

I am not referring to Christ. Christ, our redeemer, lived a life free of sin.

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Zakuska,

Who created this exalted man who you worship?

If you worship an exalted man stuck in a physical throne, I have to suspect we worship a different God.

His father before him. and so on for infinity. When was there ever a son without a father and when was there ever a father without a son? (Yes I know... my brother has 4 girls)

What came first the chicken or the egg?

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I also base it on the fact that God is all-powerful, not an exalted man stuck in a physical throne.

Where did that come from? :P

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Zakuska,

Who created this exalted man who you worship?

If you worship an exalted man stuck in a physical throne, I have to suspect we worship a different God.

His father before him. and so on for infinity. When was there ever a son without a father and when was there ever a father without a son? (Yes I know... my brother has 4 girls)

What came first the chicken or the egg?

You're putting God into a box.

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His father before him. and so on for infinity. When was there ever a son without a father and when was there ever a father without a son? (Yes I know... my brother has 4 girls)

What came first the chicken or the egg?

This becomes a philosophical question that cannot be answered. You need to address your theories as your theories, Zakuska. There are different positions on this and you can be a Mormon in good standing and hold any of them.

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You're putting God into a box.

And we would say that you put God in a book. :P I keep saying this and I can see that you are going to go right for the most "oohhhh" sounding theory out of the many that Mormons can believe....we don't have creeds. In Mormonism, creeds are the box.

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Zakuska,

Who created this exalted man who you worship?

If you worship an exalted man stuck in a physical throne, I have to suspect we worship a different God.

His father before him. and so on for infinity. When was there ever a son without a father and when was there ever a father without a son? (Yes I know... my brother has 4 girls)

What came first the chicken or the egg?

You're putting God into a box.

Thanks for the heads up Juliann.

Does not God put himself in a box every time he is given by the laying on of hands?

Was he not incarnated in his son? More improtantly where did the imortal RNA strands come from that germanated Mary's ovum?

Does not Paul tell us we are of the same genos as God?

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I also base it on the fact that God is all-powerful, not an exalted man stuck in a physical throne.

Where did that come from? :P

Where did it come from?

I believe in the God of Moroni 8:18 and Mormon 9:9-10. God is not an exalted man. He is an eternal God who has always been as He is today. He can be anywhere He wants. He has a body, but it's not physical in the sense we are capable of understanding. He is the God who created the entire universe and everything in it. He has no father -- He IS the Father.

Do you agree or not? That is the question I asked in the poll, but thus far, nobody has given a clear 'yes' or 'no' answer. <_<

I don't intend to be disrespectful. I'm just searching for answers. :unsure:

One person, perhaps it was you, said they do not know. That works for me.

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I believe God took on flesh to provide atonement for our sins and so that we will be resurrected from the dead. Furthermore, so that we can have a relationship with God the Father through Christ.

Brent,

I have a question for you - not to be argumentative but interested in how you reconcile this.

I assume you believe that God took on flesh as the man Jesus Christ. Christ died and was resurrected with a glorified, perfect body.

Where is that body of God's now?

Good questions.

Yes, I believe as you said.

Where is His body now? Christ descended; I suspect His body dematerialized.

I don't believe there is any biblical scripture to support that, is there?

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Zakuska,

Who created this exalted man who you worship?

If you worship an exalted man stuck in a physical throne, I have to suspect we worship a different God.

His father before him. and so on for infinity. When was there ever a son without a father and when was there ever a father without a son? (Yes I know... my brother has 4 girls)

What came first the chicken or the egg?

You're putting God into a box.

Thanks for the heads up Juliann.

Did not God put himself in a box every time he is given by the laying on of hands?

God can be anywhere He wants to be, and everywhere at once. He can receive my prayers at the same time He is in your church.

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I just votes "no" but then I realized this poll might be for LDS only. Sorry.

As an unorthodox buddhist/taoist/christian/etc. I believe God is an intelligence...not an identity...just a logical process that drives all the laws of the universe.

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Zakuska,

Who created this exalted man who you worship?

If you worship an exalted man stuck in a physical throne, I have to suspect we worship a different God.

His father before him. and so on for infinity. When was there ever a son without a father and when was there ever a father without a son? (Yes I know... my brother has 4 girls)

What came first the chicken or the egg?

You're putting God into a box.

Thanks for the heads up Juliann.

Did not God put himself in a box every time he is given by the laying on of hands?

God can be anywhere He wants to be, and everywhere at once. He can receive my prayers at the same time He is in your church.

Sure he can... Ever hear of a cel phone? Why do you think he gives each of us a little peace of him that connects us internaly with him?

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I don't believe there is any biblical scripture to support that, is there?

No, there isn't. I used the wrong word.

His body was glorified.

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Ok... so then God does have a body. Only it is Glorfied.

We arnt to far off then.

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Ok... so then God does have a body. Only it is Glorfied.

We arnt to far off then.

Perhaps not, but I think it's an important distinction. The LDS theology places a limitation on God which makes me uncomfortable.

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