So what DID polygamy accomplish,

[1dc]

I wuz trying to get authentic census info to de-bunk the LDS claim that Nauvoo was the largest city in the state (population). Please tell me where I can locate reliable info for Nauvoo around mid 1840's.

[Kozaru]

There are no "MORMON" fundimentalists. FLDS are not members of the Chruch of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. They would be excommunicated if found out.

A statement like this is the same thing as EV/Fundamental Christians telling Mormons that they are not really Christian.

FLDS may not be LDS, but they believe in the book of Mormon, ergo they are "Mormons". Not the same kind of Mormon you happen to be, but Mormons never the less.

How come Larry King never interviews Warren Jeffs?

[Guest joepalmeto]

How come Larry King never interviews Warren Jeffs?

Because Larry King did not marry a Jack-Fundie-Mormon.

[Golden Tapir]

1dc:

I should have added to my objective...'or verify that claim' ... even though I'm not sure what point "being the largest city in Illinois" would support.

sounds like puffery to me.

[Guest johnny_cat]

First of all, I can't believe I looked this up because I really don't care. But here are a few quotes:

The Mormon Church was growing rapidly. Although Smith started the Mormon Church in 1830, by the early 1840s the Mormons had built what Britannica (and one of the Mormon elders at the Carthage jail) says was the largest city in Illinois, with a population of about 20,000. (The Nauvoo Visitor's Center says Nauvoo's population always lagged behind Chicago's and peaked at 11,500 in 1845.)

From Wikipedia:

The city grew quickly as Mormons gathered to the area, and at its height Nauvoo's population, although smaller than contemporary Chicago's, was as large as Quincy's or Springfield's.

From the Illinois Department of Natural Resources:

The town grew as business and industry flourished. By 1844, its population surpassed Chicago's and Nauvoo became Illinois' largest city.

From Answers.com:

Nauvoo's population peaked in 1845 when it may have had as many as 12,000 inhabitants

[Golden Tapir]

Jcat-

Thanks for all the work! (are you seriously underemployed/unemployed like I am?)

Now...what does it mean?

I'm STILL trying to track down the video presented in church where I heard the claim first - Nobody wants to claim it, and the librarian has been difficult to find/elusive. Oh well!

[Guest johnny_cat]

Thanks for all the work! (are you seriously underemployed/unemployed like I am?)

You're quite welcome, though a few minutes on the Internet doesn't qualify as work, really.

Now...what does it mean?

I'd say it means a lot of people came to Nauvoo before the Saints left for Utah. Whether or not it was the largest city in Illinois, it is fascinating how many people were drawn there from all parts.

I'm STILL trying to track down the video presented in church where I heard the claim first - Nobody wants to claim it, and the librarian has been difficult to find/elusive. Oh well!

I guess I'm skeptical that there is some nefarious motive for saying this. I don't think the Illinois Department of Natural Resources, for example, has a vested interest in puffery.

Anyway, as I said, I don't much care one way or the other. It's just interesting stuff. I had heard the claim before, too, so it's nice to have at least some less-speculative information.

[Golden Tapir]

sent:

One nice email to Il DNR asking where they got that info...

It wouldn't be from (Oh Say) LDSPRHQ.bullpuckey ... now would it be?

[Guest johnny_cat]

One nice email to Il DNR asking where they got that info...

It wouldn't be from (Oh Say) LDSPRHQ ... now would it be?

I thought of that, too. I guess I'm just not seeing the same intent that you are. Maybe I'm in on the puffery, too.

[Golden Tapir]

If you can't dazzle 'em with Brilliance, baffle 'em with ....

[Guest johnny_cat]

It wouldn't be from (Oh Say) LDSPRHQ ... now would it be?

Actually, now that I think of it, that's pretty doubtful.

Consider that both LDS sources I quoted (BYU Magazine and the Nauvoo Visitors Center) say it was smaller than Chicago.

[Guest johnny_cat]

If you can't dazzle 'em with Brilliance, baffle 'em with ....

I'm not sure what you mean here. I simply gave you a list of sources and my opinion that Nauvoo was almost as large as Chicago. I wasn't trying to be brilliant or ...

[Golden Tapir]

Jcat:

sorry for the cross. I wasn't referring to you specifically/individually, I was referring to LDSPRHQ.bullpuckey

NOW WE RETURN YOU TO YOUR REGULARLY SCHEULED PROGRAM....

[Guest johnny_cat]

sorry for the cross. I wasn't referring to you specifically/individually, I was referring to LDSPRHQ.bullpuckey

I'm still not sure why you attribute this to the LDS PR folks. As I said, the two LDS sources I found specifically said Nauvoo was smaller than Chicago.

[Golden Tapir]

the answer is that I saw this in a video at church (I'm "still" attending)

I doubt that this (alone) would be 'the final nail in my coffin'; so, relax.

my American Heritage dictionary: (definition of) propaganda:

noun 1. the systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause

2. Material disseminated by the advocates of a doctrine or cause.

[Guest johnny_cat]

the answer is that I saw this in a video at church (I'm "still" attending)

I doubt that this (alone) would be 'the final nail in my coffin'; so, relax.

Totally relaxed here. I've long since stopped caring what other people believe. I am more interested into why you seem to attribute some dishonesty to the video you saw. But that's neither here nor there.

Public relations firms and departments generally do put out propaganda, by your definition.

[Golden Tapir]

not my definition...American Heritage is the dictionary my librarian (Marian) keeps on/at her desk. it's pretty well respected, although ALL dictionaries are out of touch with reality/current word usage-application the moment the editing is complete/production starts.

[Guest johnny_cat]

not my definition...American Heritage is the dictionary my librarian (Marian) keeps on/at her desk. it's pretty well respected, although ALL dictionaries are out of touch with reality/current word usage-application the moment the editing is complete/production starts.

Relax

I like that definition, and I have no problem with the Church's dissemination of materials in support of its cause. I prefer Webster's, though.

[Golden Tapir]

BREAKING NEWS!!!

I talked with the church librarian...she tells me that the video has...GONE MISSING!!! Another turn in this nefarious trail!!!!

I'm a bettin ... that SL will come out with a 'more correct' version/edition/revision (ala the BoM).....

O.K. ... who ratted me out, sold me down the river?

[Moksha]

I think Polygamist Mormon is probably a better term to use than Fundamentalist Mormon for those who still practice Polygamy. I would prefer to reserve the term Fundamentalist Mormon to those who hold such views as the Earth being only 6000 years old.

[Guest joepalmeto]

I think Polygamist Mormon is probably a better term to use than Fundamentalist Mormon for those who still practice Polygamy. I would prefer to reserve the term Fundamentalist Mormon to those who hold such views as the Earth being only 6000 years old.

I would bet that these people who zealously follow the counsel of their leaders do believe just that.

I'd use the term LDS for mormons who no longer practice or believe in the polygamous part of the "everlasting covenant" AND believe that the earth is only 6000 years old. The also have a semi annual general conference coming up in a few weeks.

[Guest johnny_cat]

I'd use the term LDS for mormons who no longer practice or believe in the polygamous part of the "everlasting covenant" AND believe that the earth is only 6000 years old.

Hmmm. I must not be LDS after all.

[Guest joepalmeto]

I'd use the term LDS for mormons who no longer practice or believe in the polygamous part of the "everlasting covenant" AND believe that the earth is only 6000 years old.

Hmmm. I must not be LDS after all.

Opp! Sorry, I should have added the following additional definition:

NOM: New Order Mormon

A cafeteria mormon of sorts. One who thinks outside of the chapel but remains in the chapel. Selectively picks and chooses what mormon doctrines they want and adds salt, pepper, whip cream, butter, jelly, gravy, etc to season to taste as to make them more palatable.

Internet Mormon, I suppose?

[Guest johnny_cat]

A cafeteria mormon of sorts. One who thinks outside of the chapel but remains in the chapel. Picks and chooses what mormon doctrines and adds salt, pepper, whip cream, butter to season to taste as to make them more palatable.

So, if I don't accept a fundamentalist belief in a young earth, you think I'm a cafeteria Mormon?

I'll have a side order of localized flood with my curelom burger.

Shoving a wad of potatoes in my mouth and squeezing: I'm a ziff, get it?

[Guest joepalmeto]

A cafeteria mormon of sorts. One who thinks outside of the chapel but remains in the chapel. Picks and chooses what mormon doctrines and adds salt, pepper, whip cream, butter to season to taste as to make them more palatable.

So, if I don't accept a fundamentalist belief in a young earth, you think I'm a cafeteria Mormon?

I'll have a side order of localized flood with my curelom burger.

Shoving a wad of potatoes in my mouth and squeezing: I'm a ziff, get it?

Yeah.

I dunno, I think Curelom steaks would be gamey tasting, like venison....

BTW what is a ziff?

Did you mean ZITT?