Show me where my perspective is not consistent with the Bible.
Show me where my perspective is irrational.
Ok. But in order to do so, it√?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√Ę?¬Ęs time for a new thread. Johnny, your perspective on Biblical theology derives from later Jewish and Christian traditions directly influenced by Hellenization i.e. Greek philosophy mingled with scripture. Notice that the New Testament clearly presents the doctrine of apotheosis:
√?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√??Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is√?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√?¬Ě (1 John 3:2).
√?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√??That by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature√?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√?¬Ě (2 Peter 1:4).
√?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√??To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne√?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√?¬Ě (Revelation 3:21).
√?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√??He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son√?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√?¬Ě (Revelation 21:7).
Today, all scholars of early Christian tradition recognize that the New Testament loudly proclaims the doctrine of deification. When you deny this fact, you deny Biblical theology:
While you claim to accept that as a Christian you will be like God and sit upon the Father√?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√Ę?¬Ęs throne inheriting all things, you defend your argument against LDS theology with the following statement:
Do you think this is consistent with Biblical theology?
This argument however does not derive from the Bible. The beginnings of the doctrine of creation ex nihilo serve as the underlying assumption in the Letter of Aristeas, a Hellenized Jewish text that dates sometime between the 3rd century BC to the 1st century A.D.
In the following statement, the Hellenized author discusses the human tendency to make gods like themselves. The author contrasts human inventors with the true God. Using Greek philosophy, the author maintains that inventors simply take existing objects already created and combine them together whereas God creates the actual substance:
Thus we can see exactly where your reasoning derives, straight from the Hellenized world of late Second Temple Judaism.
When you state that √?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√??The Catholic Bible does [teach creation ex nihilo]√?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√?¬Ě this is also incorrect. The Catholic Bible does no such thing.
Begin with Genesis. God√?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√Ę?¬Ęs first creative act appears in verse three: √?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√??God said, √?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√??Let there be light.√?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√?¬Ě However, prior to the first creative act, the text describes earth, water, and wind as representations of unorganized matter (v. 2). Note the commentary offered by Biblical scholar Jon D. Levenson:
Therefore, like every other creation account preserved from the ancient Near East, the book of Genesis does not include the Hellenized doctrine of creation ex nihilo.
Now, I assume that your comment refers to II Maccabees 7:28, an Apocryphal book included in the Catholic cannon, but not in Protestant Bibles. People unfamiliar with the Hellenized doctrine of creation ex nihilo have frequently misread this verse:
Sorry to disappoint, but even this Apocryphal verse does not teach the non-biblical doctrine of creation ex nihilo. It is quite clear to scholars who specialize in Second Temple Judaism that by paralleling the creation of the human race with the creation of heaven and earth, the author does not preach creation from nothing.
Renowned scholar Jonathan Goldstein renders the relevant phrase from verse 28 as √?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√??not after they existed.√?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√?¬Ě; II Maccabees: A New Translation with Introduction and Commentary (New York: Doubleday, 1983): 307. The actual statement suggests that √?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√??though no individual things existed, God created the world from undifferentiated raw matter√?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√?¬Ě (Ibid.).
This interpretation however, ought to be clear to careful readers through context. Clearly the author of II Maccabees knew that the book of Genesis presents the creation of the human race from the dust of the earth (Gen 2:7; 3:19), and that the Bible presents heaven and the earth, and all that is in them, made from a pre-existence matter; see F. M. Abel, Les Livres des Maccabees (Paris: Gabalda, 1949).
The key to understanding the statement in verse 28 is the mother√?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√Ę?¬Ęs comment presented in verse 22: √?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√??I do not know how you came into being in my womb. It was not I who gave you life and breath, nor I who set in order the elements within each of you.√?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√?¬Ě Thus, the woman recognized that elements were used to create humans and that heaven and earth was created √?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√??in the same way.√?¬Ę√Ę?¬¨√?¬Ě
As you can see, the views endorsed by Hellenized Christianity are non-biblical, not consistent with the Bible, and I would submit irrational.
I find it irrational to assume that one would become like God and not continue his work and glory. If the Bible teaches that humans become deified, in what way is LDS theology incongruent with Biblical theology?
Edited by enummaelish, 14 March 2005 - 07:48 PM.