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Tanyan

Jesus Christ

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LDS4EVER    writes,

I get real tired of your word game you constantly play. I'm not talking about the Father. I am talking about whether Jesus is God. Now you say he is. If Jesus is God and the Father is God, and each are separate and distinct personages, that makes...

TWO GODS! 

Jesus said he was the Son of God ... that makes ONE GOD.

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emaughan  writes,

I'm still shocked to learn that Catholics believe God is genderless. King, Lord, Prince (of Peace), He, Son, Father, Man of Rightousness

It seems you are mixing up the Father and the Son. God is neither man nor woman. The Son of God is a man.

how did Satan manage to castrate God given all the clear masculine langauge in reference to Him.

Again this is the language of faith ...

Even if one believes He is only a spirit - where did the doctrine that spirits have no gender by nature originate? Using biblical language (again even if you believe God is spirit only) why ignore all the masculine pronouns that refer to HIM our God?

God is pure spirit ... the masculine prounouns are simply the language to describe the God who is above all, and through all, and in you all (Eph 4:6).

I do not see how people - using just the bible - can state that our almighty Father in Heaven is not really a Man but some asexual mystery being?

Maybe because our almighty Father is the creator who created man.

Man was not born of heavenly parents as the LDS church teaches.

Why has gender come to viewed as something lesser, or evil and asexuality is higher or more noble? God's very creations show us the opposite. It is the higher life forms that have gender and the lower that are genderless. I believe folks can learn much about the creator by studying His works as well as His words.

Gender is not viewed as something lesser. Gender simply does not describe God.

Do you believe you can become a creator like the Father?

Not only do I disagree with the premise that spirits must be genderless, but I also disagree with the assumption that God is only a spirit - but that leads us into a seperate issue.

Do you know of any scriputures in the Bible to base your disagreement?

You also have the quandry of why Christ has a body and God does not, and if Christ is genderless as is His Father (wow - more genderles terms ) - who neutered the body of Christ? Did Christ just ditch His body (if so show me where it states that)?

I agree Christ did not ditch His Body. The Catholic Church teaches his body was glorifed and he will come again.

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Jesus said he was the Son of God ... that makes ONE GOD.

????? :P

If Zeth (my son) were to say he is the son of Evan ... that makes him the same as me.

Amazing how you interpret plain things to mean something so different from what they say.

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emaughan  writes,

If Zeth (my son) were to say he is the son of Evan ... that makes him the same as me.

When you say "same" do you mean you and him are the same person ... what do you mean by "same" and how does this relate to John 1?

Amazing how you interpret plain things to mean something so different from what they say.

How do you interpret John 1... does it reveal one God or two Gods?

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How do you interpret John 1... does it reveal one God or two Gods?

In language as clear and as beautiful as the bible is......

it reveals TWO!!!

Are you now saying that Jesus isn't God?

Time to get ready for Stake Conference. Today we'll be hearing from Richard G Scott, an Apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

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LDS4EVER    writes,

In language as clear and as beautiful as the bible is......

it reveals TWO!!!

Since it is clear could you explain how it is reveals TWO!!

Are you now saying that Jesus isn't God?

How are you using the word God ... does God mean the Father ... does God mean divinity?

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Johnny,

Show me in the Bible where it says God is not male in nature and then I will denounce the Mormon church and follow you.

Paul O

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I really don't see what all the ubbub about gender is with those of an opposing view point.---Some claim Jesus is that or this---some claim the Bible teaches this or that---when it comes to gender----But to those who think that even today God the Father--Jesus the Son or the Holy Spirit have male body parts have completly missed the point of titles and position of which the Terms Father---son--- etc---point to.

Corithians 5:16 brings alot of this into focus when Paul says what he does about flesh, which is gender------it is ALL by the SPIRIT and if you only see God or Jesus as fleshly persons---well then IMHO----you don't know God

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LDS4EVER    writes,

In the beginning, the word was WITH God. You do know what WITH means, don't you? It clearly and unequzically stated there are two personages here.

It goes on to say that the word was God. Jesus is God. Not the father, but He is none-the-less God.

If Jesus is God are you saying that Jesus was with Jesus?

If the Father is God are you saying that the Father was with the Father?

That is two Gods. Not one! Both of which are male.

Sounds like two Jesus' or two Father's.

Now that I've shown two Gods, show me where there is only one?

By comparing John 1:1,14,18 with 1Timothy and 1John

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1Timothy

1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

1 John 1:1,2

1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)

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If Jesus is God are you saying that Jesus was with Jesus?

No!. I am saying, as John said, that Jesus [the word] was with God [the Father]. and since John also identifies the word as God, that makes two Gods.

....both male.

If the Father is God are you saying that the Father was with the Father?

Another stupid question. You continue to say that Jesus isn't God. Other Trinitarians say he is. Since it's clear that you people can't even agree, why should I believe you?

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Again ... I believe Jesus is the Son of the Father and he is God himself just like other Trinitarians. I believe what the Catholic Church teaches which is:

Now you believe he is God. Fine, that works.

The Father is God.

Jesus is God.

They are separate personages.

There is two Gods.

It's really rather simple. Your own Nicene Creed says the same thing.

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LDS4EVER    writes,

The Father is God.

Jesus is God.

They are separate personages.

There is two Gods.

Clearly your intrepretation does not fit with 1Timothy and 1John which reveals one God.

It's really rather simple. Your own Nicene Creed says the same thing.

The Nicene Creed says that the Father and the Son are "one in being" ... it does not say "two Gods".

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LDS4EVER    writes,

Oh, yes. Both male.

The Son of God is male and God is neither man nor woman.

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LDS4EVER    writes,

The Father is God.

Jesus is God.

Wouldn't this imply that the Father is Jesus.

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Clearly your intrepretation does not fit with 1Timothy and 1John which reveals one God.

Then Jesus isn't God....and thus the story goes round and round and round, where it will stop, no one knows.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,

The word was with God. Separate and distinct. Thats two!!!

and the Word was God.

The word was also God himself. That makes two Gods....unless you wish to back to Jesus not being a God. Oh that's right, this time he isn't God.

14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

The word (Jesus God) was made flesh.

1Timothy

1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

2:5 For there is one God,

Correct, there is only one God the Father.

and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Correct, Jesus is the mediator between God the Father and us.

3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

NOTE: GOD WAS MADE FLESH. Jesus is God.

Clearly your intrepretation does not fit with 1Timothy and 1John which reveals one God.

Clearly, my interpretation does indeed fit with Timothy and John.

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LDS4EVER    writes,

Then Jesus isn't God....and thus the story goes round and round and round, where it will stop, no one knows.

Didn't you just say Jesus is God?

The word was with God. Separate and distinct. Thats two!!!

That's two what ...

The word was also God himself. That makes two Gods....unless you wish to back to Jesus not being a God. Oh that's right, this time he isn't God.

But doesn't that make Jesus the Father if you say Jesus is God and the Father is God.

The word (Jesus God) was made flesh.

But 1Timonthy says God was manifest in the flesh ... clearly 1Timothy does not say Jesus.

NOTE: GOD WAS MADE FLESH. Jesus is God.

1Timothy never says that Jesus is God ... 1Timothy does say the Father is God.

Clearly, my interpretation does indeed fit with Timothy and John.

Clearly you interpretation is not even close to fitting scripture ... Timothy nevers says that Jesus is God ... Timothy says that Jesus is the mediator between God and man.

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