Popular Post bsjkki Posted October 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 21, 2019 At a regional conference, Elder Ballard requested prayers for the nation. “As an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, I have a solemn duty to face the Lord and deliver his message,” said President Ballard. “His words often include words of encouragement and expressions of love. They also include words of warning.” America and the nations of the Earth, as in times past, “are at another crossroad,” he said. “Let it begin today that we take leadership and reach out in our own prayers and encourage our neighbors, our friends, our families … to pray for this country that we all love much.” https://www.deseret.com/2019/10/20/20924161/lds-church-mormon-m-russell-ballard 6 Link to comment
Metis_LDS Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, bsjkki said: “As an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, I have a solemn duty to face the Lord and deliver his message,” Let us not forget he is also the Acting President of the Twelve. Edited October 21, 2019 by Metis_LDS 1 Link to comment
stemelbow Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Awesome. So he's trying to continue the myth that he gets to see jesus as jesus comes by for a nighttime visit? Is he claiming to tell us jesus' important message to us or is he relying on vague allusions to make us feel confident they know something we don't? Link to comment
Popular Post MustardSeed Posted October 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 21, 2019 It’s a common sense thing that the world is in chaos. We don’t need Christ to deliver any night time messages about that. If He did, I agree with Him. We should pray for the world , and we absolutely should pray for our leaders. They need it. 6 Link to comment
Popular Post Scott Lloyd Posted October 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 21, 2019 I said the following in a Facebook post: I hope we occasionally go deeper than generalities and pray for the country’s leaders specifically and individually, by name and position or office. It’s less easy to hate someone if you are praying for him or her. Of course, the implication of that is becoming better acquainted with government and political affairs, not just to come to know the leaders better, but to more thoroughly understand the challenges they face and the attitudes with which they approach their duties. Perhaps our prayers would thus be more earnest and efficacious. 8 Link to comment
Tacenda Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 When I first saw this it made me think of the many members outside of America. Does it hurt that the church seems to focus mostly on the USA? I remember reading posts on this board in the past where this was the feeling. Link to comment
provoman Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) "America and the nations of the Earth, as in times past, “are at another crossroad,” he said." I so not see a reason to think Elder Ballard was being American-centric. Edited October 21, 2019 by provoman 3 Link to comment
Popular Post Scott Lloyd Posted October 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, Tacenda said: When I first saw this it made me think of the many members outside of America. Does it hurt that the church seems to focus mostly on the USA? I remember reading posts on this board in the past where this was the feeling. 3 minutes ago, provoman said: "America and the nations of the Earth, as in times past, “are at another crossroad,” he said." I so not see a reason to think Elder Ballard was being American-centric. And even if he was referring specifically to the United States and its leaders, consider the audience to whom his remarks were addressed. Is there any good reason to think he would not give the same admonition were he speaking to a group in another country? 9 Link to comment
Duncan Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) and why not? Have you had American Coca-Cola? despicable!! the leaders can fix it!!!! Edited October 21, 2019 by Duncan Link to comment
MustardSeed Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Tacenda said: When I first saw this it made me think of the many members outside of America. Does it hurt that the church seems to focus mostly on the USA? I remember reading posts on this board in the past where this was the feeling. Interesting, my thoughts were that this comes during a season when there is total chaos in the Middle East and in China, and in South America. Far more violent there right now than in the US. 1 Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 1 minute ago, MustardSeed said: Interesting, my thoughts were that this comes during a season when there is total chaos in the Middle East and in China, and in South America. Far more violent there right now than in the US. But all of it, indirectly or otherwise, impacting the vital interests of the United States. 1 Link to comment
MustardSeed Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) 1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said: But all of it, indirectly or otherwise, impacting the vital interests of the United States. Of course. And the US being a world leader has top down unraveling which doesn’t help. Edited October 21, 2019 by MustardSeed 1 Link to comment
Robert F. Smith Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 15 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: But all of it, indirectly or otherwise, impacting the vital interests of the United States. Yes, but what is the "crossroad" of which he spoke? Is he alluding to some very crucial change in the offing? And why is he including the nations of the earth? He said that he was delivering a "warning." Sounds ominous to me. Link to comment
Robert F. Smith Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 hours ago, stemelbow said: .................... So he's trying to continue the myth that he gets to see jesus as jesus comes by for a nighttime visit? .......................... Was that part of his message? Or is that your fantasy? Link to comment
Ahab Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 hours ago, stemelbow said: Awesome. So he's trying to continue the myth that he gets to see jesus as jesus comes by for a nighttime visit? Is he claiming to tell us jesus' important message to us or is he relying on vague allusions to make us feel confident they know something we don't? No, and No. Why did you ask such strange questions? Link to comment
Metis_LDS Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 13 hours ago, bsjkki said: “Let it begin today that we take leadership and reach out in our own prayers and encourage our neighbors, our friends, our families … to pray for this country that we all love much.” If I might be so bold as to suggest that he is saying the country itself needs the prays. Here in the UK we have the same need, the UK is deeply divided. Simply majorities do not a nation make. Divided countries are a bad no matter what the cause. We look to leaders to unite us, however it is better for countries to heal themselves with God's help so that the citizens change, then they put the country first rather than their own personal interests. 4 Link to comment
Ahab Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 13 hours ago, bsjkki said: At a regional conference, Elder Ballard requested prayers for the nation. “As an apostle of the Lord Jesus Christ, I have a solemn duty to face the Lord and deliver his message,” said President Ballard. “His words often include words of encouragement and expressions of love. They also include words of warning.” America and the nations of the Earth, as in times past, “are at another crossroad,” he said. “Let it begin today that we take leadership and reach out in our own prayers and encourage our neighbors, our friends, our families … to pray for this country that we all love much.” https://www.deseret.com/2019/10/20/20924161/lds-church-mormon-m-russell-ballard I'm willing to pray to God for our nation but I'm wondering what I should pray for. That more and more people will somehow be able to open their eyes to see how wickedness isn't good and doesn't lead to happiness? I already know God will help everyone to see that as long as they pray to him for help but what am I supposed to say to God to have him help people to know they should pray for his help to see that? Everyone has agency, the freedom to choose for themselves what they will do or even want to do, and God isn't going to make other people start praying to him. So what can God do about that situation? It's everyone else's decision to pray to him, if they want to pray to him, and if they don't want to pray to him what can he do? Give them more to pray about, maybe? Make things so bad that they will turn to him out of desperation? God doesn't work that way, as far as I know. Evil and bad things are caused by people who do bad and evil things. God isn't the one who causes the problems. It's a dilemma, as I see it. What people need is for God to help them see how they can make their own lives better, but God isn't going to make them see that. They have to ask God to help them and if people want to do bad and evil things instead, ignoring or not even seeking help from God, I don't see much that God can do about it. Link to comment
Metis_LDS Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, Ahab said: They have to ask God to help them and if people want to do bad and evil things instead, ignoring or not even seeking help from God, I don't see much that God can do about it. I would suggest that placing limits on what God can do is not something that you will find profitable. Link to comment
Tacenda Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Ahab said: I'm willing to pray to God for our nation but I'm wondering what I should pray for. That more and more people will somehow be able to open their eyes to see how wickedness isn't good and doesn't lead to happiness? I already know God will help everyone to see that as long as they pray to him for help but what am I supposed to say to God to have him help people to know they should pray for his help to see that? Everyone has agency, the freedom to choose for themselves what they will do or even want to do, and God isn't going to make other people start praying to him. So what can God do about that situation? It's everyone else's decision to pray to him, if they want to pray to him, and if they don't want to pray to him what can he do? Give them more to pray about, maybe? Make things so bad that they will turn to him out of desperation? God doesn't work that way, as far as I know. Evil and bad things are caused by people who do bad and evil things. God isn't the one who causes the problems. It's a dilemma, as I see it. What people need is for God to help them see how they can make their own lives better, but God isn't going to make them see that. They have to ask God to help them and if people want to do bad and evil things instead, ignoring or not even seeking help from God, I don't see much that God can do about it. I think it's the division that has been created by hate speech by our own president, it only fuels the extreme right to be open with their white supremacy and all the other problems, adding in the immigration problems. And now our president stirring up trouble in the middle east, may spell 3rd world war, who knows. It just feels like we are at an unrest right now. Edited October 21, 2019 by Tacenda Link to comment
Ahab Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Just now, Metis_LDS said: I would suggest that placing limits on what God can do is not something that you will find profitable. God will not override our agency or freedom to choose to do whatever we can do, even when we can do something that is very terrible and evil. That's why the world, generally speaking, is in the mess that it is in. People need to seek to build a relationship with God if they want that. God can't make somebody love him or or turn to him in prayer. I would suggest you think more about what people are responsible for doing for themselves, rather than thinking God is going to fix people against their will. Link to comment
Ahab Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 Just now, Tacenda said: I think it's the division that has been created by hate speech by our own president, it only fuels the extreme right to be open with their white supremacy and all the other problems adding in the immigration problems. And now our president stirring up trouble in the middle east, may spell 3rd world war, who knows. It just feels like we are at an unrest right now. Yes, the world is in a mess, generally speaking, but God is still going to allow people to choose to do whatever they can do, even when what they want to do is say something stupid and inconsiderate of people, like you know who does and apparently likes to do on Twitter. WE're in a world now where people are allowed to use their agency to do all kinds of wicked things, with God allowing them to use their agency to do those evil things if that is what they want to do. He'll judge them for it, of course, but he still allows everyone to do whatever they can do with whatever consequences follow. So if you are going to pray to God for our nation or for other nations of this world, what are you going to pray for? That God will somehow wake them up and help them to see what is obvious to anyone who knows what comes from evil and unrighteous actions? People can ignore God if they want to, and God isn't going to make anybody do anything other than reap the consequences of their own actions. So if people don't want God's help to have a better life, then God is not going to force them to accept his help. Link to comment
Metis_LDS Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Ahab said: I would suggest you think more about what people are responsible for doing for themselves, rather than thinking God is going to fix people against their will. Yes freedom is God given here on earth, God is the Father and is powerful in working on the hearts of his children. If we want miracles for people to change we need to have faith. Pray can express faith even if we are not sure what to say we are at the deepest level asking for God to help us by praying. I am sorry for the large text!!! Romans chapter 8 26 Likewise the Spirit also ahelpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should bpray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh cintercession for us with dgroanings which cannot be uttered. Edited October 21, 2019 by Metis_LDS Tried to reduce the text size (failed) Link to comment
Ahab Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Metis_LDS said: Yes freedom is God given here on earth, God is the Father and is powerful in working on the hearts of his children. If we want miracles for people to change we need to have faith. Pray can express faith even if we are not sure what to say we are at the deepest level asking for God to help us by praying. I am sorry for the large text!!! Romans chapter 8 26 Likewise the Spirit also ahelpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should bpray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh cintercession for us with dgroanings which cannot be uttered. Yeah, that's what I'm getting right now and have been for a while now when I try to pray about this. I'm speechless. I can't imagine what I should pray for but I am getting some groanings as I try to pray but don't know what I should pray for. It's like, pfftt! Give me a clue! My heart is in the right place for other people in the world, and for me too. I want good things to happen and I want people to choose to do good things so that good consequences will follow, but what about when people do wicked or just stupid things that mess up the lives of other people? What am I supposed to ask God to do about that, knowing God will not interfere with individual agency? It's like, for now, okay, I will leave it in your hands, God. I've talked to you about this before and I will likely talk to you some more about it later, asking for you to help other people as much as you can, but since I know there is only so much you can do because you won't take away the agency you have given to everyone, I'm at a loss for knowing what it is you can do. I just hope you will do something, whatever you can. And help me to know what I can do to help you, too. In the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. Edited October 21, 2019 by Ahab Link to comment
Tacenda Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ahab said: Yeah, that's what I'm getting right now and have been for a while now when I try to pray about this. I'm speechless. I can't imagine what I should pray for but I am getting some groanings as I try to pray but don't know what I should pray for. It's like, pfftt! Give me a clue! My heart is in the right place for other people in the world, and for me too. I want good things to happen and I want people to choose to do good things so that good consequences will follow, but what about when people do wicked or just stupid things that mess up the lives of other people? What am I supposed to ask God to do about that, knowing God will not interfere with individual agency? It's like, for now, okay, I will leave it in your hands, God. I've talked to you about this before and I will likely talk to you some more about it later, asking for you to help other people as much as you can, but since I know there is only so much you can do because you won't take away the agency you have given go everyone, I'm at a loss for knowing what it is you can do. I just hope you will do something, whatever you can. In the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. I'm going to pray for good leaders of the nation and world, to step up! Link to comment
Ahab Posted October 21, 2019 Share Posted October 21, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I'm going to pray for good leaders of the nation and world, to step up! When you're praying you're talking to God, so what are you talking to God about in that regard? You're not talking to other people who would make good leaders while asking them to step up. You're talking to God. so what are you asking God to do to help good leaders step up? What do you think God can do to help good leaders step up? Edited October 21, 2019 by Ahab Link to comment
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