SettingDogStar Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 6 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Where? I read your entire post but couldn't find it. Purchasing liquor for entertainment purposes? Link to comment
SettingDogStar Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, sunstoned said: No I'm not. No revelation was produced. He continued distill whiskey long after 1867. (see my above post). General authorities continued to drink coffee well into the 20th century. The WoW as we know it today was not in place in the 19th century. History is history. Warts and all. No one is judging BY for his actions. The real problem is members who refuse to accept and acknowledge their church's history. Exactly. A great example would be J. Golden Kimball. He was always a little on edge but drank coffee for years without any repercussions into the 20th century. Edited October 22, 2019 by SettingDogStar Link to comment
Jake Starkey Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 David O.McKay drank coffee as well through his first decade as an apostle. JFS and HJG were responsible for whipping the GAs then the church membership as a whole into shape. Link to comment
Hamba Tuhan Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 1 hour ago, SettingDogStar said: Purchasing liquor for entertainment purposes? When I was president of the postgraduate student association at the university, I purchased liquor for entertainment purposes on multiple occasions. Link to comment
Hamba Tuhan Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) Brigham Young was fully aware that many Saints, including Church leaders, were not fully on board with the Word of Wisdom as he was then teaching it. From his April 1867 General Conference address: Quote You go through the wards in the city, and then through the wards in the country, and ask the Bishops—“Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?” The reply will be “Yes; no, not exactly.” “Do you drink tea?” “No.” “Coffee?” “No.” “Do you drink whiskey?” “No.” “Well, then, why do you not observe the Word of Wisdom?” “Well, this tobacco, I cannot give it up.” And in this he sets an example to every man, and to every boy over ten years of age, in his ward, to nibble at and chew tobacco. You go to another ward, and perhaps the Bishop does not chew tobacco, nor drink tea nor coffee, but once in a while he takes a little spirits, and keeps whiskey in his house, in which he will occasionally indulge. Go to another ward, and perhaps the Bishop does not drink whiskey nor chew tobacco, but he “cannot give up his tea and coffee.” And so it goes through the whole church. Not that every Bishop indulges in one or more of these habits, but most of them do. I recollect being at a trial not long since where quite a number of Bishops had been called in as witnesses, but I could not learn that there was one who did not drink whiskey, and I think that most of them drank tea and coffee ... It is our right and privilege to live so that we may attain to this, so that we may sanctify our hearts before the Lord, and sanctify the Lord God in our hearts, but it is not my privilege to drink liquor, neither is it my privilege to eat tobacco. Well, bro. Brigham, have you not done it? Yes, for many years, but I ceased its habitual practice. I used it for toothache; now I am free from that pain, and my mouth is never stained with tobacco. It is not my privilege to drink liquor nor strong tea and coffee although I am naturally a great lover of tea. Brethren and sisters, it is not our privilege to indulge in these things, but it is our right and privilege to set an example worthy of imitation. Note, however, that in his call for greater obedience, the Word or Wisdom's requirements were already set. What were the Saints repeatedly asked to abstain from: alcohol, tobacco, coffee and tea. Also note that Brigham fully admitted his earlier use of these substances 'for many years'. He also stated that both alcohol and tea had potential medical uses and should be available for those purposes. Edited October 22, 2019 by Hamba Tuhan 3 Link to comment
Kenngo1969 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 9 hours ago, sunstoned said: Perhaps 1967 is a bit early for Valley Tan. ... Actually, 1967's a bit late for Valley Tan. Link to comment
Jake Starkey Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 Just inform your Bishop during Temple Recommend shakedown interview that the Dr. says you should drink coffee for medical reasons. Link to comment
MustardSeed Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Jake Starkey said: Just inform your Bishop during Temple Recommend shakedown interview that the Dr. says you should drink coffee for medical reasons. Gratefully my experience with temple recommend interviews has never been shakedowny. Of course, I am compliant with rules so my answers are simple and easy. I like keeping life simple. Edited October 22, 2019 by MustardSeed 3 Link to comment
SettingDogStar Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said: Actually, 1967's a bit late for Valley Tan. They actually still sell it today!!! 😂 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 1 hour ago, Jake Starkey said: Just inform your Bishop during Temple Recommend shakedown interview that the Dr. says you should drink coffee for medical reasons. I think it was someone on this board years ago who told the story of their mom going to a homeopathic quack and got the advice to give herself a full pot of coffee enema every day (eventually it became twice a day) for “medical purposes”. She insisted that it was not about the caffeine but when they secretly switched to decaf she could barely function. My favorite part was how the kids characterized it: “The best part of waking up is Folgers up your butt.” 1 Link to comment
Calm Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 5 minutes ago, The Nehor said: My favorite part was how the kids characterized it: “The best part of waking up is Folgers up your butt.” I can't tell if that is actually really funny or if it is the lack of sleep. Link to comment
Kenngo1969 Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, The Nehor said: ... My favorite part was how the kids characterized it: “The best part of waking up is Folgers up your butt.” I'll add that to my list of indelible images I did NOT need! :ROLLEYES: Edited October 22, 2019 by Kenngo1969 1 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 54 minutes ago, Calm said: I can't tell if that is actually really funny or if it is the lack of sleep. Not sure, I am sleep deprived myself. Gotta love that “Oh, it is 4 AM.....I should probably go to bed” feeling. 1 Link to comment
Calm Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 It is 11:30 AM...I should probably go to bed. Link to comment
Tacenda Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: I think it was someone on this board years ago who told the story of their mom going to a homeopathic quack and got the advice to give herself a full pot of coffee enema every day (eventually it became twice a day) for “medical purposes”. She insisted that it was not about the caffeine but when they secretly switched to decaf she could barely function. My favorite part was how the kids characterized it: “The best part of waking up is Folgers up your butt.” This exact thing happened to my dad! He never went back to the quack, his description. Funny also was they told him to have his wife give him the coffee enema, lol! A few years ago my MIL insisted I go see her homeopathic friend and also get my eyes read, she was an irriadologist as well. Because she wanted me to get help with sleep issues and to prevent Alzheimer's. Well I walked out of there paying a butt load of money. And one of the "cures" was to put these drops under my tongue. Guess what it was? The ingredient was mainly coffee!! What a joke!! Link to comment
poptart Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 14 hours ago, Tacenda said: It's a pretty uncanny thing that coffee thing. It's really frowned upon in the church. Sometimes people go overboard big time with it being taboo. I remember sub'g in a kindergarten or 1st grade class and when doing a learning activity coffee was mention in the story or something, and this student reacted very badly to even the mention of coffee. Of course this school was in a heavily populated LDS area. When I was sealed in the temple, my dad who was sealed to my mom, drank coffee because it helped his severe chronic back and leg pain, he was injured severly in his youth and he had tons of scar tissue from surgeries. Well in order to see me get married in the temple he had to get his temple recommend signed. The bishop told him if he switched to decaf coffee he would sign it. I doubt that would fly now. When I mentioned this to another ward member a while back, and thought it interesting because of caffeine being okay in soda drinks etc., she mentioned that coffee has the appearence of evil. So needless to say, this is what people are up against. And I doubt it will ever be okay in the WoW. Think what always bothered me about that kind of thinking is if someone has that much of an aversion to something that's associated with me, what mean nonsense will they pull? People are petty and anymore act out their dislikes on people, civility is dead. I've heard Utah is especially bad about that. Think that's one reason why a lot of people just keep to themselves anymore, I more or less always have. If I ever had to live in Utah I'd just mail order my coffee and espresso bods, already ferment my own wine. 14 hours ago, Calm said: Coffee isn’t a sin for those who haven’t Covenanted not to drink it. No big deal, imo. Alcohol is a different issue because of drunkenness or removal of inhibitions that might lead to offensive or dangerous behaviour. But again not a sin in and of itself. Anymore, esp. after how my life has been I'm very careful not to offend anyone, in general people don't play nice anymore. Agree with the booze part, nothing I dislike more than a smelly drunk, go be a drunken idiot someplace else. Link to comment
Tacenda Posted October 22, 2019 Share Posted October 22, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: I think it was someone on this board years ago who told the story of their mom going to a homeopathic quack and got the advice to give herself a full pot of coffee enema every day (eventually it became twice a day) for “medical purposes”. She insisted that it was not about the caffeine but when they secretly switched to decaf she could barely function. My favorite part was how the kids characterized it: “The best part of waking up is Folgers up your butt.” This exact thing happened to my dad! He never went back to the quack, his description. Funny also was they told him to have his wife give him the coffee enema, lol! A few years ago my MIL insisted I go see her homeopathic friend and also get my eyes read, she was an iridologist as well. Because she wanted me to get help with sleep issues and to prevent Alzheimer's. Well I walked out of there paying a butt load of money. And one of the "cures" was to put these drops under my tongue. Guess what it was? The ingredient was mainly coffee!! What a joke!! Edited October 22, 2019 by Tacenda Link to comment
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