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bsjkki

New active shooter guidelines from Presiding Bishopric

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This vid shows how to jam a door that opens outward with a folding chair...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=15EuyCQnFWk

If handles are round, not an option though.

Here's another version with school chairs.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZB7Jzr6jRiw

Quick and easy devices for barricades...of course shooters can use them too unfortunately.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=D0illqM9AAk

I wonder if doors will be made now with built in barricading systems.

Edited by Calm
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10 hours ago, Calm said:

Toss a bunch of the open metal folding chairs people were sitting on in front of them.  While someone could shoot through them, it would be difficult to climb over them and would obscure sight.

 

54 minutes ago, longview said:

An excellent delaying tactic!  Good for maybe 5 seconds?  Surely the police officers will be there by then?

Plastic folding chairs for sacrament overflow.  The folding chairs with the thick cushions are in the RS.

But yes, in Run, Hide, Fight...you use anything you can throw as a fighting tool. 

The Synagogue in Germany was protected by a locked door - a specialized locked door.

 

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3 minutes ago, provoman said:

Plastic folding chairs for sacrament overflow

I have never been in a chapel that didn't use metal ones.  I would have thought the durability of metal would make it more cost effective.  Interesting.

Edited by Calm

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7 minutes ago, provoman said:

specialized locked door.

My concern would be kids or less than mature/stable adults locking themselves in for a prank or emergency such as a fire and then rescuers can't get to them.  Seems like best solution would be to have doors that locked without keys, but could be opened with keys.

Edited by Calm

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56 minutes ago, Calm said:

I have never been in a chapel that didn't use metal ones.  I would have thought the durability of metal would make it more cost effective.  Interesting.

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcScN4KxLZMPU7QqhISuFfC

very similar to those and it is a bit unnerving when you first sit down because of all the give and how lightweight they are.

 

52 minutes ago, Calm said:

My concern would be kids or less than mature/stable adults locking themselves in for a prank or emergency such as a fire and then rescuers can't get to them.  Seems like best solution would be to have doors that locked without keys, but could be opened with keys.

A Guardian Article informed the front entrance of the Synagogue had a locked door which was staffed by a Security guard.

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17 hours ago, The Nehor said:

No, it does not unless you are asked to do so.

Good, like I said, just because someone has a carry permit, does not mean they know what they are doing, or should have one. More importantly, my guess is that Stake Presidents and Bishops will read the letter, or just emphasize the part about not carrying weapons in Church strongly. But in so doing will say little or nothing about how to act in an “active shooter situation”, when people need to know what to do. My family knows that if in public and something starts, if I draw my weapon they are move down and away form the direction I am moving. Too often chaos works in favor of the shooter, when people frezze, or run all over each other, in all directions. So, I pray that they explain the words, “run, hide, and FIGHT”. If I am unarmed, my family also knows to stay with me and behind me at all times, as I will attempt to get them out, or act as cover. 

Sadly, we don’t give drivers licenses to those who cannot show their ability of the rules and laws, and pass a driving a car. But, to get a concealed carry permit, in most places you just have to pass a background check. You don’t have to show you can use the weapon properly, the laws in your State. You know, the “life and death stuff”. :( 

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19 hours ago, 10THAmendment said:

How do you barricade a door that opens out from the room like every door in a LDS chapel?

With brave men who love their families or fellow man, more than themselves. Also with those who know what to do in a short amount of time, to a shooter, even a good ink pen can insure the shooter does not continue for long. In fact those who commit such crimes are cowards, so any such injuries to his or her throat or eye, will often send them running home to mommy, or to disarm them. Also, there is no rule against carrying pocket knives. Even a letter opener from the library or clerks office, can in the split second a shooter enters a room, can harm or kill very quickly. What everyone must know, that the first to take swift action may die, the important thing is that those you love, or whom are under your protection won’t. Little else matters, when the lives of others are at stake, 

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21 hours ago, Calm said:

Toss a bunch of the open metal folding chairs people were sitting on in front of them.  While someone could shoot through them, it would be difficult to climb over them and would obscure sight.

Except in the Cultural Hall ( chairs that are hardly ever used) our chairs are plastic.

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41 minutes ago, mnn727 said:

Except in the Cultural Hall ( chairs that are hardly ever used) our chairs are plastic.

Newer or older building?

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Just checked our new building( this will be the first occupied Sunday there ) and the chairs are metal... but the classroom doors open outward...hmmmm.

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13 hours ago, longview said:

An excellent delaying tactic!  Good for maybe 5 seconds?  Surely the police officers will be there by then?

Assuming the shooter bothers to come in (the shooter is unlikely to systematically search the building) the chairs will probably make him stumble and then you attack from where you were right along the door. If you get close enough his firearm is a liability and you get to move first. Action beats reaction in a fight.

Don’t be a petulant ***.

Edited by The Nehor
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8 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Just checked our new building( this will be the first occupied Sunday there ) and the chairs are metal... but the classroom doors open outward...hmmmm.

You can jam those too if you know how.

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15 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

You can jam those too if you know how.

So, should I include instruction as part of new primary teacher orientation?

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23 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

So, should I include instruction as part of new primary teacher orientation?

Would add some spice.  :)

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31 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

So, should I include instruction as part of new primary teacher orientation?

Why not?

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We already train on the emergency protocols and already used run, hide, fight. We always have someone watching the halls. I’ll have to learn this technique for blocking door entry.

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13 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Assuming the shooter bothers to come in (the shooter is unlikely to systematically search the building) the chairs will probably make him stumble and then you attack from where you were right along the door. If you get close enough his firearm is a liability and you get to move first. Action beats reaction in a fight.

Don’t be a petulant ***.

From a perspective of the recently released guidelines, I see it as a matter of "how" does one barricade in a room with 3 doors into a hall way and with fabric room dividers.  please see below for other comments....

12 hours ago, bsjkki said:

We already train on the emergency protocols and already used run, hide, fight. We always have someone watching the halls. I’ll have to learn this technique for blocking door entry.

You and @The Nehor have mentioned training? What is this training? And is it put on at the Skate or Ward level?

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1 hour ago, provoman said:

From a perspective of the recently released guidelines, I see it as a matter of "how" does one barricade in a room with 3 doors into a hall way and with fabric room dividers.  please see below for other comments....

You and @The Nehor have mentioned training? What is this training? And is it put on at the Skate or Ward level?

My ward emergency preparedness person came to ward council and trained on what to do in case of fire, tornado or active shooter. He had a map showing where to go to meet if there was a fire. Where we should gather if there is a tornado. He also gave the run, hide, fight advice. I typed up the 3 scenarios and gave a copy of the protocols and the map to teachers called to serve in primary. In an emergency, teachers are to take care of their classes and get them to safety and trust others to do the same for their children. I think, they were supposed to go over it in Relief Society and Priesthood opening exercises.  It is relatively simple but I think, rarely done.

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Have to ask, is it really that serious of an issue for the saints now?  I know my Jewish friends have been saying it for a while, sooner or later everyone else would have to deal with this, here we are I guess.  Sucks, for all the grief Mormons get far as I know you've more or less just kept among your own and never hurt anyone, that and when you did mingle you actually tried to help.  Sad times. 

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13 minutes ago, poptart said:

is it really that serious of an issue for the saints now? 

From the shootings I remember taking place at church or in the parking lot, they were there to get a particular person.

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

From the shootings I remember taking place at church or in the parking lot, they were there to get a particular person.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Colorado_YWAM_and_New_Life_shootings

"In the early morning hours of December 9, 2007, 24-year-old Matthew John Murray (December 5, 1983 - December 9, 2007)[7] opened fire at the Youth With A Mission training center in Arvada, Colorado, killing two and wounding two others before escaping. Later that afternoon, he attacked the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado, with a number of firearms, killing two more people and injuring three before being shot by Jeanne Assam, a member of the church's safety team, who was carrying a licensed private firearm. Murray subsequently died from a gunshot wound to the head, which reports indicate was inflicted either by himself, or possibly by Assam."

Edited by longview

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I understood him to be asking specific to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, not any Christian group.

If so, your info is not relevant.

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At least two were CCW in sacrament meeting today, and probably another five.

Me?  Not your business.  That's why it is called CCW.

LDS building are notoriously soft targets with no real place to hide.

So run: run as fast you can.

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On 10/12/2019 at 5:12 PM, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Sadly, we don’t give drivers licenses to those who cannot show their ability of the rules and laws, and pass a driving a car. But, to get a concealed carry permit, in most places you just have to pass a background check. You don’t have to show you can use the weapon properly, the laws in your State. You know, the “life and death stuff”. :( 

Utah: https://bci.utah.gov/concealed-firearm/how-do-i-apply-for-a-concealed-firearm-permit/

Quote

Weapon Familiarity Certification. Applicants must complete a firearms familiarity course certified by BCI. No exceptions. The course must be completed before you apply for a permit.

 

(Please don't take this as arguing.  I've taken this training twice in Utah, once in Colorado.  Better than nothing, but hardly adequate in a life-or-death situation.)

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2 hours ago, Calm said:

I understood him to be asking specific to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, not any Christian group.

If so, your info is not relevant.

A church is a church.  An LDS chapel is no more immune than any other sectarian church, jewish synagogue or moslem mosque.

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