Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
SettingDogStar

The New WoW Question

Recommended Posts

5 hours ago, juliann said:

When you read these things, they are listing every possible rare thing....and there are mentions of excessive consumption.

Sure, but I was responding to the claim that 'there is no scientific or medical reason to avoid it'. Clearly, in some cases there is. And if you disagree with WebMD or any other medical reference, I'm happy for you to take that issue up with them. :good:

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, Hamba Tuhan said:

Sure, but I was responding to the claim that 'there is no scientific or medical reason to avoid it'. Clearly, in some cases there is. And if you disagree with WebMD or any other medical reference, I'm happy for you to take that issue up with them. :good:

There are lists like that for basically everything we could possibly eat or drink.

Even water is toxic, ya know.

I think the problem is trotting out that list to make some point that green tea isn't good for you. Green tea is quite healthy as study after study has shown. But, like literally everything, there are chances for people to have negative reactions to it.

And if you were using that list simply to show that can be side effects to green tea, well that's a pretty minor point to make since, again, literally everything can and does have side effects.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
10 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

And if you were using that list simply to show that can be side effects to green tea, well that's a pretty minor point to make since, again, literally everything can and does have side effects.

The whole 'everything, even water, has potential side effects' merely masks the reality that tea contains a chemical stimulant that, like all stimulants, has known pharmacological effects on the body. I challenge you to find a comparable list of possible side effects on WebMD or a similar site for water or bananas. Drinking tea is not the same thing as drinking water. We've been down this very road before with red wine.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

The whole 'everything, even water, has potential side effects' merely masks the reality that tea contains a chemical stimulant that, like all stimulants, has known pharmacological effects on the body. I challenge you to find a comparable list of possible side effects on WebMD or a similar site for water or bananas. Drinking tea is not the same thing as drinking water. We've been down this very road before with red wine.

https://www.livescience.com/45005-banana-nutrition-facts.html
"

Health risks

Eaten in moderation, there are no significant side effects associated with eating bananas. However, eating the fruits in excess may trigger headaches and sleepiness, Flores said. She said that such headaches are caused by "the amino acids in bananas that dilate blood vessels." Overripe bananas contain more of these amino acids than other bananas. "Bananas can also contribute to sleepiness when eaten in excess due to the high amount of tryptophan found in them," she said. Magnesium also relaxes the muscles — another sometimes-benefit, sometimes-risk.

Bananas are a sugary fruit, so eating too many and not maintaining proper dental hygiene practices can lead to tooth decay. They also do not contain enough fat or protein to be a healthy meal on their own, or an effective post-workout snack.

Eating bananas becomes significantly risky only if you eat too many. The USDA recommends that adults eat about two cups of fruit a day, or about two bananas. If you eat dozens of bananas every day, there may be a risk of excessively high vitamin and mineral levels.

The University of Maryland Medical Center reported that potassium overconsumption can lead to hyperkalemia, which is characterized by muscle weakness, temporary paralysis and an irregular heartbeat. It can have serious consequences, but you would have to eat about 43 bananas in a short time for any symptoms of hyperkalemia to occur.

According to the NIH, consuming more than 500 milligrams of vitamin B6 daily can possibly lead to nerve damage in the arms and legs. You would have to eat thousands of bananas to reach that level of vitamin B6. 

"

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
13 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

There are lists like that for basically everything we could possibly eat or drink.

Even water is toxic, ya know.

I think the problem is trotting out that list to make some point that green tea isn't good for you. Green tea is quite healthy as study after study has shown. But, like literally everything, there are chances for people to have negative reactions to it.

And if you were using that list simply to show that can be side effects to green tea, well that's a pretty minor point to make since, again, literally everything can and does have side effects.

Maybe not everything but I get the spirit of what you are saying. We all really just need to put our lists aside and submit ourselves to the idea that following the principle is a test of our willingness to obey the council of the prophets and trust in the promise made to us If we do so. We will     

"find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;
And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint."  (D&C 89: 19-20)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
14 minutes ago, etana said:

https://www.livescience.com/45005-banana-nutrition-facts.html
"

Health risks

Eaten in moderation, there are no significant side effects associated with eating bananas. However, eating the fruits in excess may trigger headaches and sleepiness, Flores said. She said that such headaches are caused by "the amino acids in bananas that dilate blood vessels." Overripe bananas contain more of these amino acids than other bananas. "Bananas can also contribute to sleepiness when eaten in excess due to the high amount of tryptophan found in them," she said. Magnesium also relaxes the muscles — another sometimes-benefit, sometimes-risk.

Bananas are a sugary fruit, so eating too many and not maintaining proper dental hygiene practices can lead to tooth decay. They also do not contain enough fat or protein to be a healthy meal on their own, or an effective post-workout snack.

Eating bananas becomes significantly risky only if you eat too many. The USDA recommends that adults eat about two cups of fruit a day, or about two bananas. If you eat dozens of bananas every day, there may be a risk of excessively high vitamin and mineral levels.

The University of Maryland Medical Center reported that potassium overconsumption can lead to hyperkalemia, which is characterized by muscle weakness, temporary paralysis and an irregular heartbeat. It can have serious consequences, but you would have to eat about 43 bananas in a short time for any symptoms of hyperkalemia to occur.

According to the NIH, consuming more than 500 milligrams of vitamin B6 daily can possibly lead to nerve damage in the arms and legs. You would have to eat thousands of bananas to reach that level of vitamin B6. 

"

Bananas don’t contain a psychoactive stimulant as do tea and coffee. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Bananas don’t contain a psychoactive stimulant as do tea and coffee. 

and chocolate, and cola and ice cream and breakfast cereals. etc.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, etana said:

and chocolate, and cola and ice cream and breakfast cereals. etc.

I don’t consume cola for that very reason. 
 

The other tings you list don’t contain it or are not consumed in quantities that would cause it to make a substantial difference. 

Share this post


Link to post
7 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I don’t consume cola for that very reason. 
 

The other tings you list don’t contain it or are not consumed in quantities that would cause it to make a substantial difference. 

https://www.sleep.org/articles/foods-with-caffeine/
 

Chocolate

Caffeine is naturally found in cocoa beans, so most chocolate has at least some of the energy-boosting compound. The amount of caffeine in chocolate varies, depending on the bar's ingredients (a blend of cocoa butter, cocoa solids, sugar, flavorings, and fillers), but generally, the darker the chocolate, the more caffeine it contains. A Hershey’s Special Dark bar, for example, packs 31 milligrams (about same amount as a full can of cola) and a Milky Way Midnight delivers 14 grams.

Ice Cream and Frozen Yogurt

If coffee or chocolate flavors are among your favorites, expect your ice cream or frozen yogurt to pack a caffeine punch. Many popular brands with these flavors can contain 30 to 45 milligrams.

Breakfast Cereals

Did you know that your cereal could be giving you the extra energy boost that you need in the morning? That’s right! Cereals, such as Quaker Cocoa Blasts and other chocolate-flavored a.m. munchies, can pack up to 11 milligrams of caffeine.

Pudding

If pudding is your guilty pleasure, you may be surprised to know that it can supply you with up to 10 milligrams of caffeine—especially the chocolate-flavored kind. Therefore, this gooey treat may not be the best snack to have before bed.

Hot Cocoa

On a crisp winter night, hot chocolate seems like the best choice to stay warm, but it also could keep you up late. Normal hot cocoa mix can hold nine milligrams of the energy-filled substance. However, this beverage could be a great choice in the a.m. to mix up your morning coffee routine, as it has only about a tenth as much of the jittery stuff as a cup of coffee.

PMS Medications

While these medications help put your cramps and other menstrual troubles at ease, many of the popular brands incorporate caffeine into their products. Midol (Menstrual Maximum Strength Caplets), for example, packs a whopping 60 milligrams. That's because caffeine is a diuretic (it makes you urinate), so it reduces bloating. But if you’re aching for some relief at night, these types of drugs may rev you up too much.

Headache Remedies

It’s easy to turn to pain relievers when a headache or migraine strikes, but it may shock you to learn that caffeine is a common additive in most headache drugs. In fact, the stimulant can make up 40 percent of drugs such as Excedrin and Bayer.  How come? Research has shown that caffeine can improve how much aspirin and acetaminophen relieve headache pain. But since caffeine is a stimulant, you may want to think again before you take one before you head to bed.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, etana said:

https://www.sleep.org/articles/foods-with-caffeine/
 

Chocolate

Caffeine is naturally found in cocoa beans, so most chocolate has at least some of the energy-boosting compound. The amount of caffeine in chocolate varies, depending on the bar's ingredients (a blend of cocoa butter, cocoa solids, sugar, flavorings, and fillers), but generally, the darker the chocolate, the more caffeine it contains. A Hershey’s Special Dark bar, for example, packs 31 milligrams (about same amount as a full can of cola) and a Milky Way Midnight delivers 14 grams.

Ice Cream and Frozen Yogurt

If coffee or chocolate flavors are among your favorites, expect your ice cream or frozen yogurt to pack a caffeine punch. Many popular brands with these flavors can contain 30 to 45 milligrams.

Breakfast Cereals

Did you know that your cereal could be giving you the extra energy boost that you need in the morning? That’s right! Cereals, such as Quaker Cocoa Blasts and other chocolate-flavored a.m. munchies, can pack up to 11 milligrams of caffeine.

Pudding

If pudding is your guilty pleasure, you may be surprised to know that it can supply you with up to 10 milligrams of caffeine—especially the chocolate-flavored kind. Therefore, this gooey treat may not be the best snack to have before bed.

Hot Cocoa

On a crisp winter night, hot chocolate seems like the best choice to stay warm, but it also could keep you up late. Normal hot cocoa mix can hold nine milligrams of the energy-filled substance. However, this beverage could be a great choice in the a.m. to mix up your morning coffee routine, as it has only about a tenth as much of the jittery stuff as a cup of coffee.

PMS Medications

While these medications help put your cramps and other menstrual troubles at ease, many of the popular brands incorporate caffeine into their products. Midol (Menstrual Maximum Strength Caplets), for example, packs a whopping 60 milligrams. That's because caffeine is a diuretic (it makes you urinate), so it reduces bloating. But if you’re aching for some relief at night, these types of drugs may rev you up too much.

Headache Remedies

It’s easy to turn to pain relievers when a headache or migraine strikes, but it may shock you to learn that caffeine is a common additive in most headache drugs. In fact, the stimulant can make up 40 percent of drugs such as Excedrin and Bayer.  How come? Research has shown that caffeine can improve how much aspirin and acetaminophen relieve headache pain. But since caffeine is a stimulant, you may want to think again before you take one before you head to bed.

 

I stand by my comment. 

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, etana said:

I think that any harmful or addictive substance (including sugar) falls under the spirit of the WoW, but not the letter AKA "exactly as defined by the Lord". In a TR interview i would have to go by my understanding of the spirit as i imagine it is understood by those with the Keys to the Temple.

Hopefully that understanding matches up so you can get a recommend!

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Bananas don’t contain a psychoactive stimulant as do tea and coffee. 

You avoid everything with caffeine?

ETA: I see etana went there first. In his list, it said dark chocolate contains the same amount of caffeine as cola. Do you avoid dark chocolate? Do you point out the caffeine content to those who eat it?

Edited by MiserereNobis

Share this post


Link to post

Are we supposed to avoid everything that is psychoactive? Or are small amounts ok? Where's the line?

(and what's wrong with a slight change of consciousness, too... that's what exercise, sex, meditation, and other physical practices give us by releasing chemicals in our brains)

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

You avoid everything with caffeine?

ETA: I see etana went there first. In his list, it said dark chocolate contains the same amount of caffeine as cola. Do you avoid dark chocolate? Do you point out the caffeine content to those who eat it?

I love milk chocolate but detest dark chocolate. When we have an assortment of chocolate candy at our house, we end up with a surplus of dark pieces, because none of us likes them. 
 

I learned only recently that the darker the chocolate the higher the caffeine level, but since then I have not hesitated to point that out to others. I will do so going forward, especially to those who tout dark chocolate as a health food, which some do. 

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
12 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

You avoid everything with caffeine?

I had a caffeinated soft drink once as a missionary in America. I had no idea something orange flavoured might have a drug added! So when a ward missionary offered it to me, I drank it. Then I had no idea why I was so sick that night. I got in bed but couldn't sleep. In fact, I couldn't stop moving, my muscles twitching and quaking. And I could heard the blood flowing through my ears with every beat of my heart. I took my pulse, and it was 197 BPM! I woke my companion up and told him to ring the ward mission leader to come take me to hospital; I was certain I was going to die!

My companion didn't really want to do anything, so he suggested I have some more of the soft drink, which had been sent home with us. I walked into the kitchen to pour myself a glass, and that was when I noticed somehow the word caffeine in the ingredients list. I still had a hellish night trying to sleep it off, but at least I knew the cause ... and that I wasn't going to die.

I still can't comprehend that people do this to themselves. Or give it to their children and then wonder why they act like little monsters!

8 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Are we supposed to avoid everything that is psychoactive? Or are small amounts ok? Where's the line?

Those are all questions you must answer for yourself, but that such questions exist clearly indicates that tea is not some neutral substance like water.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I learned only recently that the darker the chocolate the higher the caffeine level, but since then I have not hesitated to point that out to others. I will do so going forward, especially to those who tout dark chocolate as a health food, which some do. 

The health benefits of dark chocolate (because of the flavonoids) are well documented. Why does the caffeine negate that in your view? Caffeine is not proscribed by the rules of your church. Why do you take it one step further? (sincere, not rhetorical question).

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

Are we supposed to avoid everything that is psychoactive? Or are small amounts ok? Where's the line?

(and what's wrong with a slight change of consciousness, too... that's what exercise, sex, meditation, and other physical practices give us by releasing chemicals in our brains)

My position is I avoid what I understand to be proscribed by the Word of Wisdom and see good reason for it, as tea and coffee contain the stimulant. I avoid cola (and Mountain Dew and Dr. Pepper) for the same reason though, as a Church member, I am not required to. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I had a caffeinated soft drink once as a missionary in America. I had no idea something orange flavoured might have a drug added! So when a ward missionary offered it to me, I drank it. Then I had no idea why I was so sick that night. I got in bed but couldn't sleep. In fact, I couldn't stop moving, my muscles twitching and quaking. And I could heard the blood flowing through my ears with every beat of my heart. I took my pulse, and it was 197 BPM! I woke my companion up and told him to ring the ward mission leader to come take me to hospital; I was certain I was going to die!

My companion didn't really want to do anything, so he suggested I have some more of the soft drink, which had been sent home with us. I walked into the kitchen to pour myself a glass, and that was when I noticed somehow the word caffeine in the ingredients list. I still had a hellish night trying to sleep it off, but at least I knew the cause ... and that I wasn't going to die.

I still can't comprehend that people do this to themselves. Or give it to their children and then wonder why they act like little monsters!

Sounds like caffeine isn't for you :)  And I'm totally with you... added caffeine is lame. I never drink soda, caffeinated or not. I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that green tea is some sort of villainous monster because of the caffeine.

ETA: and I'm with you with the kids comment... especially when energy drinks are given to them!

Edited by MiserereNobis

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I had a caffeinated soft drink once as a missionary in America. I had no idea something orange flavoured might have a drug added! So when a ward missionary offered it to me, I drank it. Then I had no idea why I was so sick that night. I got in bed but couldn't sleep. In fact, I couldn't stop moving, my muscles twitching and quaking. And I could heard the blood flowing through my ears with every beat of my heart. I took my pulse, and it was 197 BPM! I woke my companion up and told him to ring the ward mission leader to come take me to hospital; I was certain I was going to die!

My companion didn't really want to do anything, so he suggested I have some more of the soft drink, which had been sent home with us. I walked into the kitchen to pour myself a glass, and that was when I noticed somehow the word caffeine in the ingredients list. I still had a hellish night trying to sleep it off, but at least I knew the cause ... and that I wasn't going to die.

I still can't comprehend that people do this to themselves. Or give it to their children and then wonder why they act like little monsters!

Those are all questions you must answer for yourself, but that such questions exist clearly indicates that tea is not some neutral substance like water.

I think it deceptive that companies lace drinks with caffeine that traditionally have not had it, such as orange soda and root beer. 

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, MiserereNobis said:

Sounds like caffeine isn't for you :)  And I'm totally with you... added caffeine is lame. I never drink soda, caffeinated or not. I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that green tea is some sort of villainous monster because of the caffeine.

What about black tea?  That’s the same thing only oxidized. 

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

What about black tea?  That’s the same thing only oxidized. 

True, but the oxidation increases caffeine and decreases health benefits.

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
42 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that green tea is some sort of villainous monster because of the caffeine.

You'll need to have that conversation with someone who believes that 'green tea is some some of villainous monster'. I've never tried to make that point. My sole purpose was to challenge a statement that 'there is no scientific or medical reason to avoid it'. That is simply not true. As with any other substance that contains a psychoactive stimulant and/or tannic acid and/or other compounds that interact with certain medications, there are certainly scientific and medical reasons to avoid it, at least for certain people or in certain circumstances.

I have no way of knowing if any of those reason are part of why the Lord has commanded the Latter-day Saints not to drink tea. That's another issue altogether.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
14 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I think it deceptive that companies lace drinks with caffeine that traditionally have not had it, such as orange soda and root beer. 

Thankfully, that is illegal where I live. Colas are the only soft drinks allowed to be caffeinated.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

You'll need to have that conversation with someone who believes that 'green tea is some some of villainous monster'. I've never tried to make that point. My sole purpose was to challenge a statement that 'there is no scientific or medical reason to avoid it'. That is simply not true. As with any other substance that contains a psychoactive stimulant and/or tannic acid and/or other compounds that interact with certain medications, there are certainly scientific and medical reasons to avoid it, at least for certain people or in certain circumstances.

I have no way of knowing if any of those reason are part of why the Lord has commanded the Latter-day Saints not to drink tea. That's another issue altogether.

Thanks for clarification. I see that I obviously used hyperbole with villainous monster. It wasn't my intention to misstate your position. My apologies :) 

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, MiserereNobis said:

Thanks for clarification. I see that I obviously used hyperbole with villainous monster. It wasn't my intention to misstate your position. My apologies :) 

The Church has come out and said caffeine isn't against the WoW, so it is strange to me that so many use its presence in coffee and tea as the reason for their exclusion.

Quote

LDS Church clarifies stance on caffeine

The Associated PressSep 2, 2012

SALT LAKE CITY -- Mormons are free to down a Coke or Pepsi.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has clarified its position on caffeinated soft drinks, noting the news media often incorrectly states that its members are forbidden to drink caffeine.

This week the church posted a statement on its website saying it "does not prohibit the use of caffeine."

A day later, the website wording was changed, saying only that "the church revelation spelling out health practices ... does not mention the use of caffeine."

Church spokesman Scott Trotter said the clarification was made to provide context to last week's NBC News hour-long special on Mormonism that stated Mormons don't drink caffeine.

But church leaders say that doesn't mean they view caffeinated drinks as healthy. They just don't bar members from drinking them.

https://www.heraldextra.com/news/state-and-regional/lds-church-clarifies-stance-on-caffeine/article_e4e357d0-ba5d-5a6c-8e78-dd1e791a34b2.html

Share this post


Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...