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2 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I think this is the third time I have re-quoted this line for you:

I never said anything about needing to...

 

It would be capitulating on their deeply held values for them to approve of any relationship — including gay marriage — that contemplated sustained and ongoing homosexual behavior, which they view as immoral. 

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4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Go back to my comparison with people who join the Church against the wishes of their parents. Parents in such instances have awfully low opinions of the Church, yet if they offer gestures of love and respect, the children readily accept those gestures. 

Yes.  But, not an apt comparison to what I wrote that you continue to misrepresent:

1 hour ago, rockpond said:

I struggle to understand how a person can feel loved and respected by you if they know that you feel their marriage is "morally repugnant".

A parent having a low opinion of the church that their child joins is different than knowing that a person feels your marriage is "morally repugnant".

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1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It would be capitulating on their deeply held values for them to approve of any relationship — including gay marriage — that contemplated sustained and ongoing homosexual behavior, which they view as immoral. 

I think he's just having trouble imagining how they would feel loved and respected by those who did not want them to marry.  The key point being that "he is having trouble" imagining that.  He doesn't understand how they would.

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5 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Here is the evidence that I read your post. I don't think it's as amazing as you seem to think. You said...

Now I look forward to hearing your response to my specific question. If someone told you they love you and your wife and did one or two of those nice things you suggested, yet refused to come to an anniversary reception, or refused to let you stay at their house, or refused to introduce you as a couple to their friends, because (for whatever reason) they didn't approve of your marriage, would you feel love and respected?

If they reached out in love and respect in any way that did not entail accepting behavior they didn’t approve of, then yes, I would feel they loved and respected me. 

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2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It would be capitulating on their deeply held values for them to approve of any relationship — including gay marriage — that contemplated sustained and ongoing homosexual behavior, which they view as immoral. 

I didn't say that you need to approve of their gay marriage.  Never something I have stated.

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2 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Yes.  But, not an apt comparison to what I wrote that you continue to misrepresent:

A parent having a low opinion of the church that their child joins is different than knowing that a person feels your marriage is "morally repugnant".

I quite disagree with you. I believe it <is> an apt comparison. 
 

I think you are minimizing the hatred that some people feel for the Church of Jesus Christ. 

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1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If they reached out in love and respect in any way that did not entail accepting behavior they didn’t approve of, then yes, I would feel they loved and respected me. 

Then you must be a unicorn. I don't think there is another person who would be blatantly disrespected but still feel respected because they were told they were respected. Good for you.

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3 minutes ago, Ahab said:

I think he's just having trouble imagining how they would feel loved and respected by those who did not want them to marry.  The key point being that "he is having trouble" imagining that.  He doesn't understand how they would.

Again, NOT what I have said.  You could just read what I wrote and believe my words instead of continually changing them and twisting them to mean something else.

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1 minute ago, rockpond said:

Again, NOT what I have said.  You could just read what I wrote and believe my words instead of continually changing them and twisting them to mean something else.

Well, you did say you were struggling. You said: I struggle to understand how a person can feel loved and respected by you if they know that you feel their marriage is "morally repugnant".
 

Are you no longer struggling to understand?  Do you understand now?

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1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I quite disagree with you. I believe it <is> an apt comparison. 
 

I think you are minimizing the hatred that some people feel for the Church of Jesus Christ. 

In your example, the object of the hatred is the Church, not the child.

The object of the "morally repugnant" claim is the marriage itself.

 

Either way, if you don't believe it is an apt comparison that's fine, I gather you don't have many friends and loved ones who are gay married couples.  At this point, I'm more aiming to have you cease falsifying my statements.

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2 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Then you must be a unicorn. I don't think there is another person who would be blatantly disrespected but still feel respected because they were told they were respected. Good for you.

I think it’s sad that you have this hardened attitude that one must approve of everything a person does, every choice he makes, before one can be seen as loving and respecting the person. This attitude must be very limiting for you. I sympathize. 

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1 minute ago, Ahab said:

Well, you did say you were struggling. You said: I struggle to understand how a person can feel loved and respected by you if they know that you feel their marriage is "morally repugnant".
 

Are you no longer struggling to understand?  Do you understand now?

No, I don't understand now.

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20 hours ago, Ahab said:

Yes we do.  There is only one way to be happy and I and the "LDS" Church (as you call it) do know which way that is.

That's the first thing you said. There is only one way and the LDS have it. When I questioned if that makes non-LDS people unhappy, you respond:

20 hours ago, Ahab said:

No, there are other true Christians in the world who are not members of the true church of Jesus Christ.   Christians who have found Jesus and know at least a little about how to be happy, even if they haven't found and joined the true Church of Christ.

We invite everyone to join with us, or if not to at least be the best kind of Christian that they know how to be.  Only through Christ can we become happy, and the more we know him the more we know about how to be happy.

So now you are saying non-LDS Christians have the way to happiness (which is different than what you said first). So then I question: can non-Christians be happy, and you respond:

20 hours ago, Ahab said:

 Yes.  But it doesn't take much to be a Christian, at least a little bit.  People don't even necessarily need to know his real name.  All it takes is a desire to do good and follow those promptings that come from him. Following their own conscience, basically.

Thinking in terms of the kind of person Jesus Christ is, and how to be good or more good than a person currently is, it is fairly easy for anyone to be Christian.

You are saying in the bold that someone can be Christian without even knowing who Christ is. If they act like a Christian they are a Christian, even if they are, say, a practicing Hindu.

That was my point. I didn't make it. You said it.

2 hours ago, Ahab said:

Wow you just make stuff up as you go along don't you.  I never said that or anything like unto it

Yes, you did. Look above.

Quote

You're the one who came up with the false conclusion.  I think you probably do that more than you realize.

CFR, good buddy :) 

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2 minutes ago, rockpond said:

No, I don't understand now.

So I was right when I said: I think he's just having trouble imagining how they would feel loved and respected by those who did not want them to marry.  The key point being that "he is having trouble" imagining that.  He doesn't understand how they would.

Or can you imagine it and yet still not understand it?

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2 hours ago, Ahab said:

Oh, sorry, I wasn't aware that you had the exclusive rights to that term.  Substitute true and real if that makes what I meant more clear to you.

Of course I wasn't claiming the exclusive right to "bona fide." I was making a joke, hence the silly emoji.

But my main point was that I am Catholic because God told me to be and that I experienced a miracle through my conversion, too.

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3 minutes ago, rockpond said:

And I've acknowledged how you and I see that differently.

Do I have to embrace your view in order to be eligible to show love and respect to the couple? Can’t I do that even though I earnestly believe their homosexual behavior is morally wrong and refuse to endorse it? 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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7 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

But couldn't you at least congratulate them and be happy that they are happy, even if you don't approve of the choice?

To me (with REAL congratulations) it conveys approval of the fact that they're happy and celebrating.

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14 minutes ago, rockpond said:

In your example, the object of the hatred is the Church, not the child.

The object of the "morally repugnant" claim is the marriage itself.

 

Either way, if you don't believe it is an apt comparison that's fine, I gather you don't have many friends and loved ones who are gay married couples.  At this point, I'm more aiming to have you cease falsifying my statements.

The object of my disapproval is the immoral behavior, not the individuals. 
 

My circle of friends and loved ones is irrelevant to the discussion (and none of your business). 
 

and I don’t concede that I’m falsifying your statements. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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