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Thoughts on conference

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4 minutes ago, SteveO said:

ūüė≥

 

 

 

General Priesthood in Jackson County?

I'm also super curious what will be happening at April conference. He said it will be unlike anything else. President Nelson sure does know how to get us excited and curious!

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1 minute ago, boblloyd91 said:

I'm also super curious what will be happening at April conference. He said it will be unlike anything else. President Nelson sure does know how to get us excited and curious!

I think it was interesting that he essentially raised the bar for temple recommend worthiness just prior to that announcement.

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Posted (edited)

They say if you bring questions, those questions will be answered... 

What should those who have lost a testimony in the current and past leaders of the church do?  What does it mean to sustain imperfect leaders?  

What should those who are currently living in abusive relationships do?  Not past abuse, but current abuse.

How does the church view those of other faiths?   How does the church view the spiritual experiences of those of other faiths?  Do they differentiate feeling the Holy Spirit within the LDS church vs. others?  Does the church see God as working with everyone equally?

What types of questions does the church allow?  What is a good resource for answering questions?  

Sam Young and child abuse by church leaders - Holland started off the conference by laughing at the "protesters"?  laughing at child abuse by church leaders?

 

Old habits... you think possibly there will be something that will bring you back, and then, you know you really can never go back... strange.  not sure what I found in this place for so many years.

 

Edited by changed

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If Elder Holland was indeed "laughing at the 'protesters'" who were dissenting about child abusers, then, yes, that is wrong.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, OGHoosier said:

Islamophobia as I define it is an acerbic attitude regarding Muslims on basis of cultural/religious differences or out of an unjustly vitriolic reaction to the specter of Islamic terrorism.

I understand that "unjustly vitriolic" is definitely a subjective definition, but like Felix Frankfurter "I know it when I see it." There's a level where anger at Islam becomes off-putting and forecloses the possibility of constructive dialogue, and unfortunately those people that I know see very little redeeming in Islam. I would hope that that opinion changes.

Yeah, I guess.

The problem is, "Islamophobia" is a made-up word that seems to mean whatever the person saying it wants it to mean.  In clinical use, a "phobia" is an irrational fear.  For example, arachnophobia is the irrational fear of spiders.  Claustrophobia is the irrational fear of closed spaces.  By analogy, islamophobia should be the irrational fear of Islam.  Who the heck suffers from this, anyway?  It's not a recognized condition in the psych literature, is it?  Does sight of a mosque with its minaret cause someone to start sweating and trembling with fear?  Does a woman dressed in an abaya cause someone to have a panic attack?  These reactions might plausibly be grounds for saying they have Islamophobia.

But if virtually every single instance of terrorism occurring in the world seems to be committed by Muslims, is concern for terrorism upon seeing a Muslim in Muslim garb (whatever that is) really Islamophobia?  Or something else connected with self-preservation, even if misplaced self-preservation?  In one of Chris Rock's comedy routines he told the story of walking alone down the street late at night, and upon hearing someone following him he started to worry -- until he turned around and saw it was a white guy, whereupon he let out a relieved breath.  Was CR being racist?

Appropo of nothing in particular, this all reminds me of an experience I had about about five years ago.  I was walking down the Capital Mall in Olympia, Washington when I spotted several men walking the other way through the mall together, who were wearing Arabic garb, specifically the ghutra and egal, like these gents:

Arabic+Girls+and+men+for+Marriage+%252C+

They really stood out!  I had never seen people dressed like this in real life, only in pictures.  I had been living in Olympia for about 30 years at this point, but had never seen this before, even though we had at least one mosque in Olympia.  Pretty much nobody in the mall was taking any notice.  Or at least, weren't reacting noticeably (and so wasn't I). They were walking with big smiles for some reason -- I got the possibly incorrect feeling that they were trolling for negative reactions.  I just continued to the shop I was visiting, but on the way back I saw them all again sitting at the food court.  Again, nobody was taking any notice, but this time they were all seriously talking with one another.  I have no idea what they were discussing, or even what language they were discussing it in.  None of my business, so I just continued on my way.  I did wonder what the flip they were doing, however.  Was I being Islamophobic?

Edited by Stargazer

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17 minutes ago, kllindley said:

I don’t see much that’s a surprise about the questions. 

I must be in my own little world- so many people getting really excited/worked up/reactive/happy about changes.  

I don’t really see much that’s actually different.  Not like two hour church or 18 year old missionaries. 

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5 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Yeah, I guess.

The problem is, "Islamophobia" is a made-up word that seems to mean whatever the person saying it wants it to mean.  In clinical use, a "phobia" is an irrational fear.  For example, arachnophobia is the irrational fear of spiders.  Claustrophobia is the irrational fear of closed spaces.  By analogy, islamophobia should be the irrational fear of Islam.  Who the heck suffers from this, anyway?  It's not a recognized condition in the psych literature, is it?  Does sight of a mosque with its minaret cause someone to start sweating and trembling with fear?  Does a woman dressed in an abaya cause someone to have a panic attack?  These reactions might plausibly be grounds for saying they have Islamophobia.

But if virtually every single instance of terrorism occurring in the world seems to be committed by Muslims, is concern for terrorism upon seeing a Muslim in Muslim garb (whatever that is) really Islamophobia?  Or something else connected with self-preservation, even if misplaced self-preservation?  In one of Chris Rock's comedy routines he told the story of walking alone down the street late at night, and upon hearing someone following him he started to worry -- until he turned around and saw it was a white guy, whereupon he let out a relieved breath.  Was CR being racist?

Appropo of nothing in particular, this all reminds me of an experience I had about about five years ago.  I was walking down the Capital Mall in Olympia, Washington when I spotted several men walking the other way through the mall together, who were wearing Arabic garb, specifically the ghutra and egal, like these gents:

Arabic+Girls+and+men+for+Marriage+%252C+

They really stood out!  I had never seen people dressed like this in real life, only in pictures.  I had been living in Olympia for about 30 years at this point, but had never seen this before, even though we had at least one mosque in Olympia.  Pretty much nobody in the mall was taking any notice.  Or at least, weren't reacting noticeably (and so wasn't I). They were walking with big smiles for some reason -- I got the possibly incorrect feeling that they were trolling for negative reactions.  I just continued to the shop I was visiting, but on the way back I saw them all again sitting at the food court.  Again, nobody was taking any notice, but this time they were all seriously talking with one another.  I have no idea what they were discussing, or even what language they were discussing it in.  None of my business, so I just continued on my way.  I did wonder what the flip they were doing, however.  Was I being Islamophobic?

A little bit, I do think. 

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2 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

ut if virtually every single instance of terrorism occurring in the world seems to be committed by Muslims

Isn’t this a misrepresentation of reality though?

https://www.slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/08/right-wing-terrorist-killings-government-focus-jihadis-islamic-radicalism.amp

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5 minutes ago, changed said:

They say if you bring questions, those questions will be answered... 

Yes, perhaps you will not like the answers. Some are also past the point of hearing the answers anymore.

Quote

What should those who have lost a testimony in the current and past leaders of the church do?  What does it mean to sustain imperfect leaders?  

Regain those lost testimonies. It is possible. Thank goodness they all have been imperfect. It means to sustain a person chosen by Heavenly Father regardless of their imperfectness.

Quote

What should those who are currently living in abusive relationships do?  Not past abuse, but current abuse.

Leave, call the police, of course. Unbelievable godly patience is ok with some, but first get out of that situation (even if temporary).

Quote

How does the church view those of other faiths?   How does the church view the spiritual experiences of those of other faiths?  Do they differentiate feeling the Holy Spirit within the LDS church vs. others?  Does the church see God as working with everyone equally?

They probably view other faiths their members as children of God. They probably view their spiritual experiences as just that.  I would think that the Holy Spirit works with each man, woman, or child in ways that they would benefit them individually and in a manner they would understand.

Quote

What types of questions does the church allow?  What is a good resource for answering questions?  

Respectful ones of course. One can expect an answer equal to the manner of the questions intent. i.e. if one reads the Book of Mormon to find flaws, fault, or the devil  being its author, and then prays to Heavenly Father in that same spirit to know if the BofM is true, then I bet the answer they get is the one they are seeking, but I do not believe that answer came from Heavenly Father.

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Sam Young and child abuse by church leaders - Holland started off the conference by laughing at the "protesters"?  laughing at child abuse by church leaders?

It is presumptive to say this. Perhaps he was laughing at something else. Perhaps, if true what you say, he laughed because to him that would be preposterous. I neither made a connection of the protestors nor his laughing at them.  We all see what we want to see and hear. It is kind of obvious from your post your intentions to see and hear what you wanted to see and hear became just that.

Quote

Old habits... you think possibly there will be something that will bring you back, and then, you know you really can never go back... strange.  not sure what I found in this place for so many years.

Alma the Younger described himself as "the vilest of all sinners" he came back, I invite you to make place in your heart to try to see the good rather focusing on the bad. Lose your bitterness and come back. The fullness of the gospel and way back to him will be found in His Church.

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Mind you I recall then Elder Nelson getting excited about when the Tabernacle was re-dedicated in 2007, so memorable for him may be a ho-hum for everyone else

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33 minutes ago, kllindley said:

It’s been too long since I’ve been asked the previous questions for me to recognize what has been changed. What are some people going to be mad about?

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

It’s been too long since I’ve been asked the previous questions for me to recognize what has been changed. What are some people going to be mad about?

Ha.  You beat me to it!

I can’t see much change. (Maybe they combined some questions or just reworded them?)

 

Edited by JulieM
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Since Bernard Gui didn't give a explanatory answer to my question, ‚ÄúIf anybody with sufficient faith can heal, why Priesthood blessings?‚ÄĚ I'll offer a partial answer (partial because I don't know all of it).

Faith precedes the miracle. Having a tangible representative of God, duly ordained, is for some helpful. A worthy Prieshood holder can become an authorized supplement to the faith needed. We are to make it easier for the world to be beneficiaries of the blessings of heaven. See Alma 13. Indeed, if we aren't doing that we aren't doing our job.

Though, again, this is only a partial answer.

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23 minutes ago, Calm said:

I prepared what I thought was a nice reply on this, but then the server gave me 403 Forbidden and I lost my text.  Not sure why, but I will try again...

The Slate article you cite is incredibly slanted and is clearly cherry-picking their data. 

To start with, check out the header text: "After this weekend, right-wing terrorists have killed more people on U.S. soil than jihadis have since 9/11. So why is the government’s focus still on Islamic radicalism?"

The article cherry-picks the data by restricting itself to the United States only.  And then it counts incidents only AFTER 9/11.  Ignoring one of the world's worst terrorist acts seems slightly cherry-picked to me.  And then within the article, it contradicts its own header text: "In fact, right-wing violence had been responsible for more deaths for most of this period, but jihadis had been responsible for more since the Pulse nightclub shooting of 2016."

Meanwhile, a less biased source, Wikipedia, has this to say about Islamic Terrorism:

"In 2015 four Islamic extremist groups were responsible for 74% of all deaths from terrorism: ISIS, Boko Haram, the Taliban and Al-Qaeda, according to the Global Terrorism Index 2016."

I think my statement represented reality fairly well.

 

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5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Maybe we can finally knock off the bellyaching about how little the Church supposedly gives to humanitarian assistance. 

Didn’t Pres. Nelson just cite the $2.2b number that has been published already?

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Danzo said:

How big is the gulf between what you can do and what you actually do.

That is the more important question.

Ask my husband, I donate constantly to gofundme or other charities I trust. I told him recently, when he got upset that I donated to someone's health needs on gofundme, I said, well, we don't pay tithing anymore so here's a chance where I can still help.

Before when we were full tithe payers for over 30 years, my husband would say the church takes care of things, when I'd want to donate to things. Now I feel I can donate to other things instead, and have some control where the funds go. 

So think what you want, and I do still pay fast offerings.  

Edited by Tacenda

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1 hour ago, kllindley said:

Oh, wow!  I can hear them already!

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28 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Ha.  You beat me to it!

I can’t see much change. (Maybe they combined some questions or just reworded them?)

 

They fixed question 7. ¬†And yes, I said ‚Äúfixed‚ÄĚ... grammatically the question was difficult to understand especially when asking it of youth.¬†

I noted that they also re-worded the law of chastity question to be more expansive about moral cleanliness.  And they re-worded the Word of Wisdom question. 

There may be other questions that were changed but those were the ones I caught. 

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26 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Have you ever been on temple square at conference time changed?  It’s full of protesters with signs talking about how all the Mormons are going to hell. Those protesters have been there since long before anyone knew Sam Young’s name.  Chuckling at them and their antics has been a long-standing joke for decades. 
 

Elder Holland’s words had nothing to do with laughing at child abuse by church leaders. 

Thank you.

Hollands words "Protestors shout from their favorite soap box" @ 4:20 - 4:27 thereabouts

Elder Hollands facial expressions does not change, and he does not laugh either.

Unless I missed something, I did not see 

1 hour ago, changed said:

 Holland started off the conference by laughing at the "protesters"?  laughing at child abuse by church leaders?

 

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6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Yes, but most wards (in the United States at least) also had advisors called to teach more often then the YM Presidency while the YM Presidency attended the meeting and oversaw it (but of course did not preside).

According to the handbook, these men have been called as 'assistant advisers'.

Quote

This removes the YM Presidency and puts the Bishopric in their place. Perhaps the biggest practical change is that the Bishopric is now planning Youth Activities from camp outs to the weekly weekday evening activities.

Except that this isn't a change at all if people have been following instructions. Each member of the bishopric was assigned to oversee an Aaronic Priesthood quorum (the bishop, of course, being the president of the priests), and therefore was expected to attend all presidency meetings, activities, etc. When I was serving as second counsellor in the bishopric, we held deacons quorum presidency meetings in my home. I was always part of the planning ... though always in a mentoring role. I realise that many bishopric members were not doing this, hence the continual reminders as part of training, but that doesn't mean it wasn't already part of their calling. Now they can't fob it off onto the so-called Young Men presidency, and that's a good thing.

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

In 2015 four Islamic extremist groups were responsible for 74% of all deaths from terrorism: ISIS, Boko Haram, the Taliban and Al-Qaeda, according to the Global Terrorism Index 2016."

 

A quarter of all deaths being from nonIslam terrorists doesn‚Äôt translate to me to being ‚Äúvirtually every single instance‚ÄĚ.

Majority, sure. Nearly all, not even close.

Add-on:  Misread this, do you have percentages for all Islamic terrorists groups?

It would have to be under 5% for nonIslamic terrorism for me to agree to ‚Äúnearly all‚ÄĚ and 1-2% for ‚Äúvirtually every single instance‚ÄĚ.

getting off topic, so dropping this if you don’t want to respond if you won’t get a response back.

Edited by Calm

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43 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Have you ever been on temple square at conference time changed?  It’s full of protesters with signs talking about how all the Mormons are going to hell. Those protesters have been there since long before anyone knew Sam Young’s name.  Chuckling at them and their antics has been a long-standing joke for decades. 
 

Elder Holland’s words had nothing to do with laughing at child abuse by church leaders. 

The biggest group this year, that has been in the news etc, was Sam Young, protesting child abuse.  It was well publicized, the march was happening as Holland was giving his very insensitive remarks.

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1 hour ago, SteveO said:

I think it was interesting that he essentially raised the bar for temple recommend worthiness just prior to that announcement.

Did he raise the bar for temple recommend worthiness?  The questions seemed mostly the same, though worded better, except for the law of chastity question which certainly got expanded (in a good way). Is that what you're thinking of in terms of raising the bar?

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