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Thoughts on conference

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You missed the implication of "they think they have to go and will do anything to get there."

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1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

It's a given to me, in my heart/mind. It's an opinion, that the church needs to figure out a way for those that are sacrificing so much more than the rest of us to attend, and the temples need not be the cost that so many temples have been or as large, in fact make them the size of a small chapel! ETA: I don't care if they go to the temple, I care that they think they have to go and will do anything to get there. 

 

Well, then you should be really happy about the announcement of the McAllen, TX temple, because it will be serving a lot of people who could not (mostly because of documentation issues) go to the San Antonio temple at all, nor go south to the Monterrey, Mexico temple.  It will bless the lives of many faithful, impoverished Saints who have sacrificed a lot to try to make a better life for their children.  I will say that my 12 year old daughter groaned when the Orem temple was announced, "Not another one in Utah!"  Yes, I know they are crowded. But do people have to call and make an appointment? The Saturday before our temple was announced, I had the opportunity to go to San Antonio, so I called to make a reservation for a session.  I couldn't.  The whole day was full. I think some people take for granted the ability to attend the temple when they desire.  We have had to make an appointment in advance AND drive 4 hours.  I did get to do initiatory work, but there were others turned away from doing that because that got full as well. I know we have to have enough members to staff a temple, but I also know that now that one has been announced, fewer of our retirees will move away to live near grandchildren who live near a temple, and will instead stay here with their other grandchildren (I've already seen that family dynamic play out on Facebook).  I look forward to not loosing as many of our experienced members right when they finally have more time to serve. 

I will say that I have wondered if perhaps those with close temples that are crowded could perhaps be satisfied with attending only as often as others will more distant temples are able to attend, and then the temples wouldn't be as crowded.  I know the work is important, but when I hear of weekly baptism trips and our youth are lucky to go once or twice a year and be limited to 4-5 names because the temple can't give us a double slot even though we have a lot of youth.  And then in my temple and family history consultant groups I hear of so much bickering over picked over family  trees where all the work has been done and descendants are snatched up  the instant they hit 110 years...and I see many of our youth with fresh family trees full of green temples, and I assist many patrons at our FHC who have for years automatically sent even their close family members' names to the temple file, to be done by those busy temples in Utah because they themselves had no way of reaching a temple.  Well, it does make one hope and pray that a better balance might be found.  Thankfully, for our little area, that prayer has been answered.

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1 hour ago, Jake Starkey said:

You missed the implication of "they think they have to go and will do anything to get there."

Did I?

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On 10/5/2019 at 8:35 PM, SteveO said:

I don’t think so.  He’s kind of the reliable war horse when it comes to uncomfortable truths.

As he should be. It's a shame he has to be though. It seems that no matter what they teach concerning the Family that there are some who refuse to listen. Which means they repeat

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12 hours ago, elliephant said:

Well, then you should be really happy about the announcement of the McAllen, TX temple, because it will be serving a lot of people who could not (mostly because of documentation issues) go to the San Antonio temple at all, nor go south to the Monterrey, Mexico temple.  It will bless the lives of many faithful, impoverished Saints who have sacrificed a lot to try to make a better life for their children.  I will say that my 12 year old daughter groaned when the Orem temple was announced, "Not another one in Utah!"  Yes, I know they are crowded. But do people have to call and make an appointment? The Saturday before our temple was announced, I had the opportunity to go to San Antonio, so I called to make a reservation for a session.  I couldn't.  The whole day was full. I think some people take for granted the ability to attend the temple when they desire.  We have had to make an appointment in advance AND drive 4 hours.  I did get to do initiatory work, but there were others turned away from doing that because that got full as well. I know we have to have enough members to staff a temple, but I also know that now that one has been announced, fewer of our retirees will move away to live near grandchildren who live near a temple, and will instead stay here with their other grandchildren (I've already seen that family dynamic play out on Facebook).  I look forward to not loosing as many of our experienced members right when they finally have more time to serve. 

I will say that I have wondered if perhaps those with close temples that are crowded could perhaps be satisfied with attending only as often as others will more distant temples are able to attend, and then the temples wouldn't be as crowded.  I know the work is important, but when I hear of weekly baptism trips and our youth are lucky to go once or twice a year and be limited to 4-5 names because the temple can't give us a double slot even though we have a lot of youth.  And then in my temple and family history consultant groups I hear of so much bickering over picked over family  trees where all the work has been done and descendants are snatched up  the instant they hit 110 years...and I see many of our youth with fresh family trees full of green temples, and I assist many patrons at our FHC who have for years automatically sent even their close family members' names to the temple file, to be done by those busy temples in Utah because they themselves had no way of reaching a temple.  Well, it does make one hope and pray that a better balance might be found.  Thankfully, for our little area, that prayer has been answered.

I’m glad that you will have a temple closer to your home. It sounds like you really need it. I’m grateful this blessing has come to those in your area and other areas. 
 

It seems, though, that you are viewing temple placement as a zero-sum game, that placing a temple in location X means that location Y cannot have one. I don’t think it works that way. I believe there are myriad factors to be considered when a temple is placed in a given location. For one thing, tedious and frustrating red tape. We have heard time and again of it having taken years to get construction of a temple approved because of local zoning regulations, misunderstanding and opposition among nearby residents, etc. You alluded to the need for enough local support to staff a temple. There also must be sufficient potential usage by patrons so that the temple does not sit unoccupied much of the time. 
 

Announcement of new temples is a good indicator of growth in the Kingdom of God. I mean real growth. A better indicator than the rate of convert baptisms, for instance, because it is driven by the number of Church members who are temple worthy and dedicated to living the gospel and obeying the commandments of God.

We ought to be collectively thrilled when we hear announcements of new temples, regardless of the locale. Resentment or jealousy over something like this is hardly conducive to the unity the Lord requires us to have as His covenant people (“If ye are not one, ye are not mine”). 
 

Finally, I can hardly think of a clearer hindrance to the progress of the work than expecting members to deliberately limit or curtail their temple attendance because there are not X number of temples elsewhere in the world. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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5 hours ago, elliephant said:

The Saturday before our temple was announced, I had the opportunity to go to San Antonio, so I called to make a reservation for a session.  I couldn't.  The whole day was full.

Wow.  I never realized that there were temples that were that full.  Even at the busiest times, we have always been able to get into a session even if we had to wait for a bit for the next session to start (Denver temple).

5 hours ago, elliephant said:

I know the work is important, but when I hear of weekly baptism trips and our youth are lucky to go once or twice a year and be limited to 4-5 names because the temple can't give us a double slot even though we have a lot of youth. 

Are there wards that do weekly baptism trips?  Our wards (Denver Temple) have always been given just 2-3 youth temple trips per year with 4-5 names per youth because there isn't time to do more.  I assumed this was the norm.

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6 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Wow.  I never realized that there were temples that were that full.  Even at the busiest times, we have always been able to get into a session even if we had to wait for a bit for the next session to start (Denver temple).

Are there wards that do weekly baptism trips?  Our wards (Denver Temple) have always been given just 2-3 youth temple trips per year with 4-5 names per youth because there isn't time to do more.  I assumed this was the norm.

Where I live in Utah we are between two temples, but our ward only gets 2 hours of youth baptism time for the entire year (that has to be split between the YM and YW).  The last time we tried to go without a reservation we waited for over three hours and each kid got to do 2 names (we left the temple at 9:30 at night and there were still kids in the waiting room, they hadn't even gotten to the recommend desk yet).  

And I've gone to the temple before and had to leave after two hours without getting to do anything because there were too many people.  There were so many people that they wouldn't all fit in the chapel (even standing along the walls).  They were lining them up down the hallway.  

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7 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I don't care if they go to the temple, I care that they think they have to go and will do anything to get there. 

 

Don't worry about those people Tacenda.  God takes care of those who put Him first.  

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26 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Don't worry about those people Tacenda.  God takes care of those who put Him first.  

Gotcha bluebell! :) I sometimes stick my nose in where it doesn't belong. 

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On 10/6/2019 at 1:59 PM, bluebell said:

I think that some women might need to stop and consider that maybe the change to the witness policy isn't supposed to have anything to do with making women feel special.  

I'm worried that as women in the church some of us are beginning to become too self-centered in our relationship with the gospel and the church.  Are we beginning to lose sight of the need to forget ourselves, to lose ourselves in the work of Christ?  

Validation is important but is everything that happens in the church now supposed to be judged on it's ability or inability to validate women?  



  

I agree.

It has nothing to do with making women feel special.

It has to do with hastening the work. The Lord needs us to do more so He is gathering help from the sisters and even the youth of the Church

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28 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Where I live in Utah we are between two temples, but our ward only gets 2 hours of youth baptism time for the entire year (that has to be split between the YM and YW).  The last time we tried to go without a reservation we waited for over three hours and each kid got to do 2 names (we left the temple at 9:30 at night and there were still kids in the waiting room, they hadn't even gotten to the recommend desk yet).  

And I've gone to the temple before and had to leave after two hours without getting to do anything because there were too many people.  There were so many people that they wouldn't all fit in the chapel (even standing along the walls).  They were lining them up down the hallway.  

Wow!  But I guess that gives some insight into why they keep building more temples in Utah.

There are many members who talk about and hope for a third temple in Colorado (south of the Denver metro area since the north half of the state just got the Fort Collins temple) but I can't see it happening until we're making better use of the Denver temple.

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On 10/6/2019 at 3:58 PM, Bernard Gui said:

The revised YM theme is great. I wish the YM had a theme, too. 

YM do have a theme. It's in section 84

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7 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I care that they think they have to go and will do anything to get there. 

I care as well, and believe that the fact they will do anything to get there is a beautiful thing.  My experience has been that sacrifice truly does bring forth the blessings of heaven.

And since temples are needed to perform work for those on both sides of the veil, I think it’s appropriate for a significant number of those temples to be built in areas with a larger number of temple recommend holders.  When I arrive at the temple at 5 a.m. for my shift as an ordinance worker there are always 40 to 50 people waiting at the recommend desk to be admitted for the 5:30 a.m. session.  During my shift, the initiatory  booths are almost always full and there’s a long wait for the baptistery.  Multiple large temples with facilities to enable a high number of vicarious ordinances allow the work to progress at a faster rate and give many an opportunity to serve, both as workers and as patrons.

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1 minute ago, Avatar4321 said:

Already is

Which question or questions are causing teeth gnashing?  They don't seem all that different to me, with the exception of specifically calling out Sabbath day observance.

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On 10/6/2019 at 5:35 PM, Duncan said:

Mind you I recall then Elder Nelson getting excited about when the Tabernacle was re-dedicated in 2007, so memorable for him may be a ho-hum for everyone else

I think those who dont prepare for the next conferenxe likely won't see what Pres Nelson is preparing for.

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16 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Gotcha bluebell! :) I sometimes stick my nose in where it doesn't belong. 

I don’t think so.  Genuine concerns are always worth expressing and sincere questions are always worth asking, especially by people like you who are willing to have an open mind and heart to the replies to those concerns and questions.

Don’t stop!  Carry on! 🙂

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On 10/6/2019 at 5:39 PM, bluebell said:

Have you ever been on temple square at conference time changed?  It’s full of protesters with signs talking about how all the Mormons are going to hell. Those protesters have been there since long before anyone knew Sam Young’s name.  Chuckling at them and their antics has been a long-standing joke for decades. 
 

Elder Holland’s words had nothing to do with laughing at child abuse by church leaders. 

Not that the protestors care about child abuse to begin with. If they did we would be the last ones they would protest

Edited by Avatar4321
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30 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Wow!  But I guess that gives some insight into why they keep building more temples in Utah.

There are many members who talk about and hope for a third temple in Colorado (south of the Denver metro area since the north half of the state just got the Fort Collins temple) but I can't see it happening until we're making better use of the Denver temple.

Payson Temple during the school year is pretty sparse during the day, but full up evenings and weekends. Not sure about summertime. Youth trips are like bluebell’s from what I hear. My husband being a professor who has some evening classes, goes during the day and sometimes they have barely enough men. 

It would be nice if there was a way to spread the heavier times around, but with most adults having to work or care for children during the day don’t see how to change that. 

I assume Provo Temples do better due to students and missionaries being available during the day. My husband is hoping the Orem Temple is near UVU so he can pop over with less planning. That would increase student participation as well. 

Edited by Calm

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On 10/6/2019 at 9:05 PM, Raingirl said:

Elder Holland was not speaking of the march, he was referring to the protestors who appear at conference every year. 

You can spin and lie all you want, but it doesn’t change the facts. 

Elder Holland is a straightforward person and speaker. If he had wanted to refer to Sam Young and his activities, he would have done so clearly and directly. 

Spin is all they have

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13 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

Not that the protestors care about child abuse to begin with. If they did we would be the last ones they would protest

If it’s Sam Young that you’re referring to, I’m sure he realizes that there is child abuse all over the world that he can’t do much to stop. His emphasis (and that of his organization) is to work to reduce/eliminate the threat to children within religious institutions. 

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14 minutes ago, Calm said:

Payson Temple during the school year is pretty sparse during the day, but full up evenings and weekends. Not sure about summertime. Youth trips are like bluebell’s from what I hear. My husband being a professor who has some evening classes, goes during the day and sometimes they have barely enough men. 

It would be nice if there was a way to spread the heavier times around, but with most adults having to work or care for children during the day don’t see how to change that. 

I assume Provo Temples do better due to students and missionaries being available during the day. My husband is hoping the Orem Temple is near UVU so he can pop over with less planning. That would increase student participation as well. 

Yeah... not much that can be done about temples being empty during the middle of school/work days.  At least, I don’t have a solution to propose. 

It does feel like Sundays would be a great opportunity for youth temple trips but then that takes kids away from their families on the Sabbath so it’s not ideal either. 

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1 hour ago, rockpond said:

Wow.  I never realized that there were temples that were that full.  Even at the busiest times, we have always been able to get into a session even if we had to wait for a bit for the next session to start (Denver temple).

Are there wards that do weekly baptism trips?  Our wards (Denver Temple) have always been given just 2-3 youth temple trips per year with 4-5 names per youth because there isn't time to do more.  I assumed this was the norm.

It was a homeschool group, rotating through different temples, I assume during family priority time. I should have clarified that it wasn't a ward. 

I guess having been here for a full decade now it isn't strange to me anymore to have to make a reservation for a session and it has started to feel strange to me that others don't have to.

Now, San Antonio isn't always that busy, and probably only ever is on Saturdays; but for a good number of people, Saturday is the only possible day to attend due to travel time

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26 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

I think those who dont prepare for the next conferenxe likely won't see what Pres Nelson is preparing for.

But that’s the thing, I’ve prepared for conferences before and while I often feel a great spiritual presence at some of the talks..it’s never a great outpouring, manifestation, or such others things that the early saints often experienced. When Joseph promised the Elders that with preparation the Temple would “endow them with power” it did so, immensely with visions and angels appearing nearly to all and the voice of God was heard.

However, I’ve had no such experience with Conference, Temple Dedications, or any event whensuch has been promised. That’s not say it isn’t possible but I feel like our expectations should be just a bit higher, we won’t get what we don’t expect. It is our privilege, our right, to obtain heavenly things.

People are content with a spiritual feeling and helpful messages from leaders, collectively I feel that they don’t hope for more then that or truly desire it. However, the saints in Joseph’s time yearned for more and they got it every time. Any preacher teaching Jesus could have the Spirit or teach a good lesson but the SAINTS wanted more, the wanted true communication and the Heavens actually open in their meetings and rites.

SCRIPTURE would be revealed, Angels would descend, Fire would light up the temple, visions would occur commonly, and great and glorious things would be revealed in might.

Its been far to long since such a thing has occurred in the church as a whole.

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34 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

I don’t think so.  Genuine concerns are always worth expressing and sincere questions are always worth asking, especially by people like you who are willing to have an open mind and heart to the replies to those concerns and questions.

Don’t stop!  Carry on! 🙂

You're kind to say this! 

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