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Gathering Isreal


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My sister-in-law sent the message below to our family in a group message today, not sure what to make of it. I have been in ward emergency preparedness meetings where they will ask those members with radios to give some education on them and the stake always likes to know who can use a ham radio. I was under the impression that everyone was responsible for the gathering of Israel; however, I was not aware there was a specific stake with this charge. It seems made up to me. I wanted to see if anyone else has heard this, and if its true where can I learn more about this and why this particular stake.  Thanks

“Today in relief society the lesson was on Come Follow Me by president Nelson that he gave in April of this year and we talked about how he said ?time is running out.This one lady rose her hand, she’s brand new to the ward and they called their records in today. She and her husband live in an RV and travel the country stopping and staying in places for 3 months at a time. She is originally from Independence Missouri and she said that their stake is in charge of preparing for the literal gathering of Israel. They are in the process of getting all these properties purchased and they have asked all of the adult members to be licensed to operate ham radios.”

 

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18 minutes ago, Nacho2dope said:

My sister-in-law sent the message below to our family in a group message today, not sure what to make of it. I have been in ward emergency preparedness meetings where they will ask those members with radios to give some education on them and the stake always likes to know who can use a ham radio. I was under the impression that everyone was responsible for the gathering of Israel; however, I was not aware there was a specific stake with this charge. It seems made up to me. I wanted to see if anyone else has heard this, and if its true where can I learn more about this and why this particular stake.  Thanks

“Today in relief society the lesson was on Come Follow Me by president Nelson that he gave in April of this year and we talked about how he said ?time is running out.This one lady rose her hand, she’s brand new to the ward and they called their records in today. She and her husband live in an RV and travel the country stopping and staying in places for 3 months at a time. She is originally from Independence Missouri and she said that their stake is in charge of preparing for the literal gathering of Israel. They are in the process of getting all these properties purchased and they have asked all of the adult members to be licensed to operate ham radios.”

 

 

 

The church owns thousands upon thousands of acres of land and could probably buy all the land needed in one or two fell swoops. Supposedly having one stake do all the work is sort of ridiculous if you think about it. I’ve heard this kind of rumor/task milled about by multiple independence missionaries (senior and normal) and members. Nothing ever comes of it.

Not saying it’s false, but based off past experiences she’s probably over exaggerating.

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Not buying that lady's story at all.

And I thought the Church no longer taught a literal gathering (AofF notwithstanding) but now taught gathering within stakes/areas.

And additionally the final gathering to Jackson County comes AFTER it's been swept clean.  If there were a literal gathering place at this time it would be the center stake - Salt Lake City.  Not Missouri.

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28 minutes ago, Nacho2dope said:

....................... I was under the impression that everyone was responsible for the gathering of Israel; however, I was not aware there was a specific stake with this charge. It seems made up to me. I wanted to see if anyone else has heard this, and if its true where can I learn more about this and why this particular stake. ....................

There is not one specific stake in charge of preparing for the gathering of Israel.  All stakes are responsible for that.  The phrase "gathering of Israel" generically refers to preaching the Gospel widely, baptizing a lot of people, and organizing stakes and wards worldwide.

28 minutes ago, Nacho2dope said:

............. She is originally from Independence Missouri and she said that their stake is in charge of preparing for the literal gathering of Israel. They are in the process of getting all these properties purchased and they have asked all of the adult members to be licensed to operate ham radios.”

"the literal gathering of Israel" refers primarily to the gathering of the Jews to the Holy Land, along with other members of the 12 tribes.  However, LDS leaders often use that to refer generically to missionary work among the Gentiles by Latter-day Saints.  LDS theology entails both concepts, though most members don't know it.

The Center Stake of Zion is in Independence, Missouri, where the Great Temple will be built just before the Lord comes again.  It is true that the LDS Church has been buying lots of property in Missouri.  Most govt emergency systems include volunteer ham radio operators, so it seems wise for churches to do the same.

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6 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Not buying that lady's story at all.

And I thought the Church no longer taught a literal gathering (AofF notwithstanding) but now taught gathering within stakes/areas.

And additionally the final gathering to Jackson County comes AFTER it's been swept clean.  If there were a literal gathering place at this time it would be the center stake - Salt Lake City.  Not Missouri.

Joseph Smith had Apostle Orson Hyde go to Palestine to formally dedicate the Holy Land to the final gathering of the Jews and the building of their temple in Jerusalem.  You can find his 1841 formal prayer in English and Hebrew on the Mount of Olives today in the Orson Hyde Garden.  The Jews are ready to rebuild their temple now, but are not allowed to do so yet by Israeli law.  As to SLC, that is merely an interim location for LDS HQ.

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13 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

There is always a faith promoting rumor about the Church buying up land around the valley of Adam-Ondi-Ahman and putting in infrastructure. Personally I would need confirmation of such from people who have recently visited the place. 

I know there are some land purchases and senior missionaries called to the area sign an agreement not to personally purchase any property while they are there. Heard this from a senior missionary couple assigned to maintain Adam-ondi-Ahmad and I trust both of them.

If they were telling the whole Stake to get ham radios it would have leaked long before this.

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34 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

The church owns thousands upon thousands of acres of land and could probably buy all the land needed in one or two fell swoops. Supposedly having one stake do all the work is sort of ridiculous if you think about it. I’ve heard this kind of rumor/task milled about by multiple independence missionaries (senior and normal) and members. Nothing ever comes of it.

Not saying it’s false, but based off past experiences she’s probably over exaggerating.

That’s kind of what I was thinking. Thanks 

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2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I know there are some land purchases and senior missionaries called to the area sign an agreement not to personally purchase any property while they are there. Heard this from a senior missionary couple assigned to maintain Adam-ondi-Ahmad and I trust both of them.

If they were telling the whole Stake to get ham radios it would have leaked long before this.

Thanks 

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24 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Not buying that lady's story at all.

And I thought the Church no longer taught a literal gathering (AofF notwithstanding) but now taught gathering within stakes/areas.

And additionally the final gathering to Jackson County comes AFTER it's been swept clean.  If there were a literal gathering place at this time it would be the center stake - Salt Lake City.  Not Missouri.

Thanks 

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1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Joseph Smith had Apostle Orson Hyde go to Palestine to formally dedicate the Holy Land to the final gathering of the Jews and the building of their temple in Jerusalem.  You can find his 1841 formal prayer in English and Hebrew on the Mount of Olives today in the Orson Hyde Garden.  The Jews are ready to rebuild their temple now, but are not allowed to do so yet by Israeli law.  As to SLC, that is merely an interim location for LDS HQ.

Yes, but the Jews will eventually all gather to the temple in Jerusalem.  The others will gather to the New Jerusalem in Jackson county.  IF we were literally gathering to one place right now it would be to the feet of the priesthood, Utah, in preparation for the trip to Adam Ondi Ahman and Jackson.

Right now we don't gather geographically to any place.  

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1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Yes, but the Jews will eventually all gather to the temple in Jerusalem.  The others will gather to the New Jerusalem in Jackson county.  IF we were literally gathering to one place right now it would be to the feet of the priesthood, Utah, in preparation for the trip to Adam Ondi Ahman and Jackson.

Right now we don't gather geographically to any place.  

That is only a temporary and practical matter.  We need to establish bases of operation and temples worldwide in order to carry on the Lord's work.  The gathering is taking place in phases.  In that respect, Utah is just a convenient stopping point in preparation for a mass return to Missouri.  Not everyone need return, of course.  Moreover, we should bear in mind that both Latter-day Saints and the Jews have the priesthood among them, and can function independently of one another.

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8 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Moreover, we should bear in mind that both Latter-day Saints and the Jews have the priesthood among them, and can function independently of one another.

Do you believe the priesthood from the days of Moses down to Christ is still functional and divinely authorized among the Jews to this day?

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12 hours ago, Nacho2dope said:

My sister-in-law sent the message below to our family in a group message today, not sure what to make of it. I have been in ward emergency preparedness meetings where they will ask those members with radios to give some education on them and the stake always likes to know who can use a ham radio. I was under the impression that everyone was responsible for the gathering of Israel; however, I was not aware there was a specific stake with this charge. It seems made up to me. I wanted to see if anyone else has heard this, and if its true where can I learn more about this and why this particular stake.  Thanks

“Today in relief society the lesson was on Come Follow Me by president Nelson that he gave in April of this year and we talked about how he said ?time is running out.This one lady rose her hand, she’s brand new to the ward and they called their records in today. She and her husband live in an RV and travel the country stopping and staying in places for 3 months at a time. She is originally from Independence Missouri and she said that their stake is in charge of preparing for the literal gathering of Israel. They are in the process of getting all these properties purchased and they have asked all of the adult members to be licensed to operate ham radios.”

 

 

 

Just a few quick questions:

1. Do the LDS consider themselves "Israel" or is "Israel" the actual historical Jews in Israel?

2. If the church "replaced" Israel as God's chosen people, what about the promises in the bible directed to Israel that are unfulfilled and end times prophecy? 

These questions are often confused in today's non-LDS christian churches as well. 

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22 minutes ago, snowflake said:

Just a few quick questions:

1. Do the LDS consider themselves "Israel" or is "Israel" the actual historical Jews in Israel?

2. If the church "replaced" Israel as God's chosen people, what about the promises in the bible directed to Israel that are unfulfilled and end times prophecy? 

These questions are often confused in today's non-LDS christian churches as well. 

I don't think it's either/or.  

"Replacement Theology," also called "Supersessionism" or "Fulfillment Theology," is described as "a Christian theological view on the current status of the church in relation to the Jewish people and Judaism" in which "the Christian Church has succeeded the Israelites as the definitive people of God or that the New Covenant has replaced or superseded the Mosaic covenant."  Notably, Wikipedia indicates that "{t}he Latter Day Saint movement rejects supersessionism."  The footnote points to a news article, which in turn quotes 3 Nephi 29 (emphases added):

Quote

1 And now behold, I say unto you that when the Lord shall see fit, in his wisdom, that these sayings shall come unto the Gentiles according to his word, then ye may know that the covenant which the Father hath made with the children of Israel, concerning their restoration to the lands of their inheritance, is already beginning to be fulfilled.
2 And ye may know that the words of the Lord, which have been spoken by the holy prophets, shall all be fulfilled; and ye need not say that the Lord delays his coming unto the children of Israel.
3 And ye need not imagine in your hearts that the words which have been spoken are vain, for behold, the Lord will remember his covenant which he hath made unto his people of the house of Israel.
...
8 Yea, and ye need not any longer hiss, nor spurn, nor make game of the Jews, nor any of the remnant of the house of Israel; for behold, the Lord remembereth his covenant unto them, and he will do unto them according to that which he hath sworn.

I think it is difficult, probably impossible, to square "Replacement Theology" with the above verses.

This Encyclopedia of Mormonism article sums things up well:

Quote

For two major reasons, Latter-day Saints today apply the name Israel to themselves. First, Moses appeared to Joseph Smith, and Oliver Cowdery in the Kirtland Temple on April 3, 1836, and conferred on them the keys, or authorization, for "the gathering of Israel" (D&C 110:11; cf. PWJS, pp. 145-46). This gathering consists not only in restoring people of Israelite ancestry "to the lands of their inheritance" but also in bringing them "out of obscurity and out of darkness; and they shall know that the Lord is…the Mighty One of Israel" (1 Ne. 22:12). This action means bringing them into the Church.

Second, Latter-day Saints have often learned from their patriarchal blessings that they are literally of the lineage of Israel (D&C 86:8-9), primarily the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh. The Lord has revealed that it is the particular responsibility of Israel to carry the message of the restored gospel to the world, and Ephraim has the responsibility of directing this work (D&C 133:26-34; cf. TPJS, p. 163). Those who are not of Israel's lineage become such through adoption at the time of their baptism and reception of the Holy Ghost (TPJS, pp. 149-50; Rom. 8:15-17; Gal. 4:5-7; Abr. 2:10; see also Law of Adoption).

That sounds about right.  Here are a few more resources:

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited by smac97
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21 minutes ago, snowflake said:

Just a few quick questions:

1. Do the LDS consider themselves "Israel" or is "Israel" the actual historical Jews in Israel?

2. If the church "replaced" Israel as God's chosen people, what about the promises in the bible directed to Israel that are unfulfilled and end times prophecy? 

These questions are often confused in today's non-LDS christian churches as well. 

Like some modern Christians who correctly believe Gentiles who believe are grafted into Israel, LDS are taught the same. However, I believe some "Gentiles" are actual descendants of Israel - don't forget that David married Uriah the Hittite's wife.... did you know that the Hittite word for water was watar? That is pretty dang close to English.... just sayin.

Christians have come to think of themselves as a separate religion from Judaism, but that is not what Paul taught. Paul continued to call himself a Jew after his conversion. He never once called himself or members of the Way as Christian. He did sometimes refer to them as Saints. Paul's conception really was that the Way was the restoration of true Israelite religion - it was Judaism which had gone astray, and didn't recognize the truth of scripture. Paul was not out to start some new religion, but to restore truth to Israel. He taught Gentile believers that they were grafted into Israel or the congregation - it wasn't impossible for Gentiles to become members of Israel - they could marry into Israel. They just had to follow the rules - that didn't change according to Paul... although the covenant had, and some of the law had been replaced ie fulfilled by Christ. By accepting Christ we do "replace" Judaism. Members of Judaism are no longer God's "chosen" people, because they are not following the law. So  in that sense Gentile followers have replaced them as God's chosen people, but all they need do to be chosen again is to convert to the truth of their Messiah. 

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Hmmm...I was born and raised in Independence, Mo.  One of my best friends currently serves as the SP.  I can say this with certainty....1)  I know of no "official" responsibility of the Indep. Mo. Stake being in charge of preparation. Having said that, the members there are extremely mindful of their personal responsibility with respect to the gathering of Israel, and the role Independence/Jackson County is playing and will play in the future of the Church     2)  I do know that the FP is extremely mindful and "hands on" regarding Jackson County.     3)  I do know that the Church has, is and will continue to search for and purchase lands in Jackson County.

3)   I do know that with respect to actually teaching the Restored Gospel in Jackson County...the Church is really the only Restoration Church in Indep. MO that is actually making significant  progress.  Almost ALL other Restoration Church's represented in Indep. Mo. are so few in numbers...and are mostly very elderly in their demographics, that their influence is negligiable at best.    4)  I do know that there is a GA Liason that reports directly to the FP with respect to all things Jackson County.     5)  I do know that exciting things are happening there, and things are progressing along as they should.

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2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Do you believe the priesthood from the days of Moses down to Christ is still functional and divinely authorized among the Jews to this day?

Of course it is.  If you don't bother to attend synagogue, you might not see it happen on a regular basis, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.  I have personally seen the cohens among the Jews perform required rituals which only they are authorized to perform, and the D&C says that they have a lineal right to that priesthood as direct descendants of Aaron.  God himself declared that they have a permanent right to that priesthood.

See my response to the Quora question:  Which is the oldest organization of the world?” Quora, May 16, 2018, online at https://www.quora.com/Which-is-the-oldest-organization-of-the-world/answer/Bob-Smith-3106 .

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