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Valentinus

Madam Patterini

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B. Morris Young should definitely be a more prominent figure in LDS history. Too bad he never spoke as Madam Patterini while acting as Young Men's Mutual founder. Even Mormonism has an important place in American Draq Queen History!! This needs to be embraced today.

220px-Brigham_Morris_Young.jpg

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Yeah it was a big fad back then, and sometimes women were not allowed to perform so men had to play or sing any part that would have been more suitable for women.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cross-gender acting

Cross-gender acting refers to actors or actresses portraying a character of the opposite gender. It is distinct from both transgender and cross-dressing character roles.

Traditions of male-only performance cultures

Many societies prohibited women from performing on stage, so boys and men took the female roles. In the ancient Greek theatre men played females, as they did in English Renaissance theatre and continue to do in Japanese kabuki theatre (see onnagata). In Chinese opera specialized male actors who play female roles (dàn) are referred to as nándàn (男旦); the practice arose during the Qing dynasty due to imperial prohibitions against women performing on stage, considered detrimental to public morality.

Japanese Kabuki theatre began in the 17th century with all-female troupes performing both male and female roles. In 1629 the disrepute of kabuki performances (or of their audiences) led to the banning of women from the stage, but kabuki's great popularity inspired the formation of all-male troupes to carry on the theatrical form. In Kabuki, the portrayal of female characters by men is known as onnagata. The practice is detailed in a story of the same name by the Japanese writer, Yukio Mishima. All roles in Japanese Noh dramas are traditionally played by male actors; actors playing female roles wear feminine costumes and female-featured masks. The Takarazuka Revue is a contemporary all-female Japanese acting company, known for their elaborate productions of stage musicals. Takarazuka actresses specialize in either male or female roles, with male-role actresses receiving top billing.

In ancient China, nearly all the characters in Chinese Opera were performed by men, so that all the male actors, who played the role of a female were crossdressing. A famous cross-dressing opera singer is Mei Lanfang. From early 20th century, Yue opera is developed from all male to all female genre. Although male performers were introduced into this opera in 1950s and 1960s, today, Yue opera is still associated as the only all female opera and the second most popular opera in China.

In Renaissance England it was illegal for women to perform in theatres,[3] so female roles in the plays of Shakespeare and his contemporary playwrights were originally played by cross-dressing men or boys. (See also Stage Beauty.) Therefore, the original productions of the above-mentioned Shakespeare plays actually involved double-cross-dressing: male actors playing female characters disguising themselves as males. Academic research into the contemporary attitudes towards the practise have yielded a variety of interpretations. Laura Levine argues that "an all-male acting troupe was the natural and unremarkable product of a culture whose conception of gender was "teleologically male""; she also suggests that contemporary protests against the practise (believing it made young actors "effeminate") reflected "deepseated fears that the self was not stable and fixed but unstable and monstrous and infinitely malleable unless strictly controlled.[4]

Women as men as well

Cross-dressing in sixteenth- and seventeenth-century Spain was frequent among actors, and the theater was at the time the most popular form of entertainment.[5] There was a fascination with female cross-dressers particularly (women dressed as men), who were "extremely popular" in the "Golden Age Comedia".[6] Male actors might play the "women dressed as men" parts. Spain eventually found this cross-dressing to be threatening to social order, and passed laws targeting female transvestites throughout the 1600s.[7] Despite the negative reactions and disapproval, it continued to remain very popular in the comedia.[5]

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I'm just saying it's perfectly fine for members to do it today.

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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Be the change you want to see in the world Valentines! I think you would look good in a dress. I believe in you.

Apparently, I didn't get my gay startup kit in the mail as a child and therefore I don't qualify for such feats as I am subgay and found less than.

Thankfully we have straight people to fill in for me.

Edited by Valentinus
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I listened to Caitlyn Jenner's, formerly Bruce Jenner's, audiobook. She is now fully female and she cross dressed since pretty young, any chance she could. She hid it from everyone for many years. I wonder if Mr. Young was going through the same thing. I'll have to research, and see if this wasn't just an acting gig for one show or not.

Edited by Tacenda

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22 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

Apparently, I didn't get my gay startup kit in the mail as a child and therefore I don't qualify for such feats as I am subgay and found less than.

Thankfully we have straight people to fill in for me.

You crack me up!

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2 hours ago, Valentinus said:

B. Morris Young should definitely be a more prominent figure in LDS history. 

Why?

Thanks,

-Smac

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19 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I listened to Caitlyn Jenner's, formerly Bruce Jenner's, audiobook. She is now fully female and she cross dressed since pretty young, any chance she could.

I am curious.  For you, what does "fully female" mean?  Surely she is not not biologically or genetically female?

From her book, Secrets of My Life (pp. 99-100):

Quote

But I do think about gender.  I am firmly on the side of womanhood now.  But I am not a woman.  Nor will I ever be.

I am a trans woman.  There is a difference.

I never menstruated or had menopause.  I obviously cannot give birth.  I was never screwed out of a job because of the sexism that is still pervasive.

Is my gender female?  Yes.  Has it always been female?  Yes.  I use the women's restroom because I am a woman.  I changed the gender on my birth certificate to female because I am a woman.  But it's a different kind of womanhood for me.  And that will never change.  I'm fine with that.  It doesn't diminish Caitlyn.

My sense is that a person cannot change their gender, any more than they can change their age (Stefoknee Wolscht), or their ancestry (Rachel Dolezal), or their species (Eva Tiamat Medusa).

19 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

She hid it from everyone for many years.

Apparently so.  I have quite a bit of sympathy for her.

Thanks,

-Smac

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3 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I have quite a bit of sympathy for her.

I am not one of those people who considers him a woman even though I know he would really like to be one.  And I can sympathize with the fact that he wasn't born as a woman.

If I couldn't be a man I would want to be a woman.  I think women are fantastic!  but I am a man and I am happy with being a man and with enjoying women while being a man.

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57 minutes ago, Ahab said:

.If I couldn't be a man I would want to be a woman.  I think women are fantastic!  but I am a man and I am happy with being a man and with enjoying women while being a man.

https://m.wikihow.com/Not-Be-Creepy

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2 hours ago, Valentinus said:

I'm just saying it's perfectly fine for members to do it today.

That is what I thought but when I channeled J Golden Kimball the bishop asked me to please sit down. :( 

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1 minute ago, The Nehor said:

Better solution and a lot less of a hassle:  Don't worry if other people think you are creepy.  If you want to be creepy you can be even if other people do not think you are, and if you're not creepy but other people think you are then you are not even if they think you are

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2 hours ago, Ahab said:

I am not one of those people who considers him a woman even though I know he would really like to be one.  And I can sympathize with the fact that he wasn't born as a woman.

If I couldn't be a man I would want to be a woman.  I think women are fantastic!  but I am a man and I am happy with being a man and with enjoying women while being a man.

I like women.  I love talking with them, for one thing because they aren't men and don't think like men.  Except obviously they are human beings and think like human beings, but there's a certain "something" about women that I find fascinating.  I was always fascinated by women.  At one time I actually fantasized about what it would be like being a woman.  But never in a million years would I want to "change" to being one.  I do sympathize with Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner.

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4 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I like women.  I love talking with them, for one thing because they aren't men and don't think like men.  Except obviously they are human beings and think like human beings, but there's a certain "something" about women that I find fascinating.  I was always fascinated by women.  At one time I actually fantasized about what it would be like being a woman.  But never in a million years would I want to "change" to being one.  I do sympathize with Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner.

Like this although the end of it got the Monty Python Lumberjack song going through my head.

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Just now, The Nehor said:

Like this although the end of it got the Monty Python Lumberjack song going through my head.

Can't do that, since I have no idea what the song even is.  Spam spam spam, yes, but lumberjack?  Nope.

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1 minute ago, Stargazer said:

Can't do that, since I have no idea what the song even is.  Spam spam spam, yes, but lumberjack?  Nope.

Wow.  How can you not know it?

 

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2 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Can't do that, since I have no idea what the song even is.  Spam spam spam, yes, but lumberjack?  Nope.

I envy you seeing this for the first time. ;) 

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19 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I like women.  I love talking with them, for one thing because they aren't men and don't think like men.  Except obviously they are human beings and think like human beings, but there's a certain "something" about women that I find fascinating.  I was always fascinated by women.  At one time I actually fantasized about what it would be like being a woman.  But never in a million years would I want to "change" to being one.  I do sympathize with Bruce/Caitlyn Jenner.

I like the way Jack Nicholson said it: 

And here:

 

Edited by Ahab
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6 hours ago, Valentinus said:

Apparently, I didn't get my gay startup kit in the mail as a child and therefore I don't qualify for such feats as I am subgay and found less than.

Thankfully we have straight people to fill in for me.

For the bonus round, give the correct pronunciation for that quote in its original language.  Did you see this?  The actual talk is only about 45 minutes- there is a long warm up and the [email protected]   Great stuff!  I love this guy!  Of course I taught him all I know.

 

 

 

 

Then he said "Yeah- so what's new?"  ;)

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/#inbox/FFNDWMbHTSWzklKLpRVkJGzXFtZmCwJD

 

 

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1)  Deuteronomy 22:5 King James Version (KJV)

5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.

 

2)  April 5, 1841, “in a grove Near Main Street in the City of Nauvoo, The Prophet Joseph dictating the ceremony and Br Nobles repeating it after him.”, remembers Erastus Snow, Louisa’s brother-in-law.  To help keep the union secret, Louisa wore a man’s hat and coat as disguise.  Joseph Bates Noble recalled that after the ceremony, the couple spent their wedding night, “Right straight across the river at my house”.  Noble said he encouraged them to, “Blow out the lights and get into bed, and you will be safer there”.

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On 9/20/2019 at 10:31 AM, Valentinus said:

B. Morris Young should definitely be a more prominent figure in LDS history. Too bad he never spoke as Madam Patterini while acting as Young Men's Mutual founder. Even Mormonism has an important place in American Draq Queen History!! This needs to be embraced today.

220px-Brigham_Morris_Young.jpg

No, it shouldn’t be embraced today.

There is a tradition of “trouser roles” for women in opera, too 

Edited by Bernard Gui

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58 minutes ago, blueglass said:

Lowell Bennion founder of the University of Utah institute of religion looks pleasant.

 

https://ibb.co/pPRH0bt

This kind of thing is getting Trudeau in a lot of trouble. 

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On 9/20/2019 at 12:14 PM, Tacenda said:

I listened to Caitlyn Jenner's, formerly Bruce Jenner's, audiobook. She is now fully female and she cross dressed since pretty young, any chance she could. She hid it from everyone for many years. I wonder if Mr. Young was going through the same thing. I'll have to research, and see if this wasn't just an acting gig for one show or not.

No, Jenner is not fully female. Jenner can never be fully female. 

Edited by Bernard Gui

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