Church Releases First Book of Mormon Video

[Ahab]

12 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

Just use some God powers and create a planet for family vacations, shouldn’t be an issue. Apparently Venus was habitable once, so some atmospheric tampering should make it right as rain for family get always.

Shhhhh.  We're not supposed to talk about Venus right now.   You don't want everybody and their cousins to start going there, do you?!?!  But yeah, sure, we'll be able to find SOME place to go for our family retreats and reunions, later.

[SettingDogStar]

1 minute ago, Ahab said:

Shhhhh.  We're not supposed to talk about Venus right now.   You don't want everybody and their cousins to start going there, do you?!?!  But yeah, sure, we'll be able to find SOME place to go for our family retreats and reunions, later.

Oh sorry, first rule of Venus Club..don’t talk about Venus Club.

[ksfisher]

2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Honey-bees were native to the New World and did not need to be brought by anyone.  In fact, the list of items brought does not include bees.

"A honey bee (also spelled honeybee) is a eusocial flying insect within the genus Apis of the bee clade, all native to Eurasia...

Honey bees are not native to the Americas, arriving with colonists in North America in the 18th century. Thomas Jefferson mentioned this in his Notes on the State of Virginia:

“

The honey-bee is not a native of our continent. Marcgrave indeed mentions a species of honey-bee in Brasil. But this has no sting, and is therefore different from the one we have, which resembles perfectly that of Europe. The Indians concur with us in the tradition that it was brought from Europe; but, when, and by whom, we know not. The bees have generally extended themselves into the country, a little in advance of the white settlers. The Indians therefore call them the white man's fly, and consider their approach as indicating the approach of the settlements of the whites.[89]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey_bee

There are many species of bees native to the western hemisphere, but not the species that we know as the honey bee.

[Ahab]

3 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

"A honey bee (also spelled honeybee) is a eusocial flying insect within the genus Apis of the bee clade, all native to Eurasia...

Honey bees are not native to the Americas, arriving with colonists in North America in the 18th century. Thomas Jefferson mentioned this in his Notes on the State of Virginia:

“

The honey-bee is not a native of our continent. Marcgrave indeed mentions a species of honey-bee in Brasil. But this has no sting, and is therefore different from the one we have, which resembles perfectly that of Europe. The Indians concur with us in the tradition that it was brought from Europe; but, when, and by whom, we know not. The bees have generally extended themselves into the country, a little in advance of the white settlers. The Indians therefore call them the white man's fly, and consider their approach as indicating the approach of the settlements of the whites.[89]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey_bee

There are many species of bees native to the western hemisphere, but not the species that we know as the honey bee.

My wife and I have Mason bees in our garden.  Masons were on Noah's ark, I believe.  Lots of symbolism has lots to do with mason bees.

[Tacenda]

13 minutes ago, Ahab said:

My wife and I have Mason bees in our garden.  Masons were on Noah's ark, I believe.  Lots of symbolism has lots to do with mason bees.

I went to a Fall bizarre over the weekend and tried some chocolate with honeycomb in it from a lady that is English. I don't know where she gets her chocolate but it was so yummy with the honey comb!

[Robert F. Smith]

47 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

"A honey bee (also spelled honeybee) is a eusocial flying insect within the genus Apis of the bee clade, all native to Eurasia...

Honey bees are not native to the Americas, arriving with colonists in North America in the 18th century. Thomas Jefferson mentioned this in his Notes on the State of Virginia:

“

The honey-bee is not a native of our continent. Marcgrave indeed mentions a species of honey-bee in Brasil. But this has no sting, and is therefore different from the one we have, which resembles perfectly that of Europe. The Indians concur with us in the tradition that it was brought from Europe; but, when, and by whom, we know not. The bees have generally extended themselves into the country, a little in advance of the white settlers. The Indians therefore call them the white man's fly, and consider their approach as indicating the approach of the settlements of the whites.[89]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey_bee

There are many species of bees native to the western hemisphere, but not the species that we know as the honey bee.

Yours is a common misconception.  Pre-Columbian North and South America had plenty of wild and domestic honey-making bees.  They were native to the Americas, and widely used by the various peoples of the Americas long before the arrival of Apis mellifera ("honey-bearing bee"), which appears to be the only honey-making bee which you recognize.  We have even had anti-Mormons declare it a mistake for the BofM to have honey-bees.  It fact it is no mistake at all, but is based on the ignorance of the anti-Mormon writers.

Quote

"For thousands of years, Mayans were expert practitioners of bee husbandry, and honey was an essential forest resource…as a sweetener, as an antibiotic and as an ingredient in the Mayan version of mead. The Mayans, like other tropical forest cultures, worked with large-bodied meliponine bees that produce a variety of honeys. Their favorite, and one of the most productive species, has been Melipona beecheii, 'Xunan kab', which means, literally, 'royal lady'."

Of the 500 or so species of stingless bees in the tropical world Melipona beecheii is unique in that it was routinely propagated. Mayan bee keepers divided existing hives in order to increase the number of hives and honey production.  https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/06/050615062105.htm .

The bottom line is that honey-making Meliponids and Trigonids are native to Central and South America.  The Jaredite deseret "honey-bee" is not an error.

Quote

Honey production is not unique to honey bees. The Mayan bee god, Ah Muzen Cab, was revered for his gift of honey. If the North American honey bee went extinct and the European honey bee didn’t arrive until 1622 where did the Mayan’s get honey? Honey was harvested from social Melipona bees commonly called stingless bees. Represented by over 500 species this genus of bees is very diverse and live only within the equatorial regions around the earth. Species vary in size from smaller than fruit flies to those larger than the honey bee. Colony sizes also vary from a few hundred to thousands of bees. Melipona are uniquely adapted to the flowers of their local environment and don’t survive outside their native habitat. Vanilla orchids are an example of a familiar flower reliant on melipona bees for pollination.

Melipona beecheii was the Mayans favorite species they called kolil kab which means “royal lady”. These native bees of the Yucatan Peninsula produce only about two liters of honey per hive or about a half gallon compared to nearly five gallons of honey produced by a typical honey bee hive. Traditionally, most Mayan families keep a hive in hollow logs near their homes to produce honey for their own use.   https://nativebeeology.com/2018/01/26/native-honey-bees/ .

 

Edited September 23, 2019 by Robert F. Smith

[Ahab]

32 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I went to a Fall bizarre over the weekend and tried some chocolate with honeycomb in it from a lady that is English. I don't know where she gets her chocolate but it was so yummy with the honey comb!

Mason bees do not produce much if any honey and they do not live in communal hives.  They get their own food and they live independently from each other, even though they often live near other mason bees or other kinds of bees.  They're not active as many months of the year as honey bees are but they are good pollinators while they are active and they usually start before honey bees do. 

Edited September 23, 2019 by Ahab

[ksfisher]

25 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Yours is a common misconception.  Pre-Columbian North and South America had plenty of wild and domestic honey-making bees.  They were native to the Americas, and widely used by the various peoples of the Americas long before the arrival of Apis mellifera ("honey-bearing bee"), which appears to be the only honey-making bee which you recognize. 

I keep bees and am familiar with the difference between a honey bee and a bee that makes honey.

[Robert F. Smith]

11 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

I keep bees and am familiar with the difference between a honey bee and a bee that makes honey.

Then why were you so easily misled by standard nomenclature?

[ksfisher]

1 minute ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Then why were you so easily misled by standard nomenclature?

Honey bee refers to Apis mellifera, not to other honey making bees.  Sort of like the difference between a black bear and a bear that is black.

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, SettingDogStar said:

 YouTube is much easier accessed on some networks (and less odd then trying to reference someone to a religious website). Plus they could be used as a proselyting tool for those who are unaware of the story of the Book of Mormon or have a hard time reading.

They are obviously not intended to be some big epic movie, though I wish someone would use the framework for something as deep, epic, and spanning as a show like Game of Thrones (minus the inappropriate sexual content). 

I get all of that.  My problem is with low production values.  If something is worth doing, it is worth doing well.  It certainly doesn't have to be an epic, Hollywood production. I'm fine with something small and unpretentious -- like Robert Redford's "Ordinary People."  Low budget, but a masterpiece.

[Robert F. Smith]

1 minute ago, ksfisher said:

Honey bee refers to Apis mellifera, not to other honey making bees.  Sort of like the difference between a black bear and a bear that is black.

Neither of us should have any problem with the Latin classification of entomologists.  What gripes me is the adherence to a very misleading standard nomenclature.  You knew better than to use that, without further explanation, and an open admission that calling a bee which makes honey a "honey bee" is not actually wrong.

[SettingDogStar]

13 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Neither of us should have any problem with the Latin classification of entomologists.  What gripes me is the adherence to a very misleading standard nomenclature.  You knew better than to use that, without further explanation, and an open admission that calling a bee which makes honey a "honey bee" is not actually wrong.

Especially since all those classifications didn’t really exist with the Jaredites. It made honey so as far as they were probably aware it was, in fact, a honey bee.

[gopher]

I made the mistake of watching the video with some young women in the room.  Next time I'm watching it with guys only so I don't have to continually hear how hot Nephi is.  He does look a bit like Kylo Ren from Star Wars

[The Nehor]

My review of the first two videos. Liked them generally

 

Pros: 

I like that Nephi and Sam were reluctant to go as Nephi admitted in his account.

They captured Nephi’s first instinct when he found Laban to pull out the sword and look at how neat it is. Believable teenage boy behavior and from the way it was written in the Book of Mormon that was how it happened.

I liked Lehi’s general disgust with Jerusalem’s society as a catalyst for revelation.

Laman is more believable as a reluctant follower then the more common depiction as just a jerk. He seems to want to succeed and the adversarial brother relationship between the two “factions” is there but there is also a basic brotherly respect underneath it all and Laman is deferential to his father even when he disagrees. I hope they have that degenerate at the right pace.

The agreement to grab the wealth and try to buy the plates made sense but I wish there had been a line from Laman about how Nephi’s idea made a ton of sense and might work.

They put Laban on some steps with his head over the edge so the common “wouldn’t the armor and clothing be covered in blood?” criticism could not be levied.

 

Cons:

Laban’s beard......seriously, was I supposed to buy that thing was real?

Laban is the most incompetent villain ever. I realize they have to be able to escape but if that ambush is the best you can pull off in your own house when you knew they were coming you really suck at this. Your men stop pursuing at the gate. C’mon, train your men a little better. Also, if Nibley was right and Laban was the military governor of Jerusalem his death definitely did not weaken the defenses. Nephi did the city a favor getting rid of that “master” of strategy.

Okay, I have no idea how those lots they cast are supposed to work.

Yeah, I know you are trying to follow the scriptures but many of those are paraphrases of what people said. It gets stilted when a lot of it is read verbatim. Then again, it probably makes more sense to do it verbatim.

When Laman loses it and starts attacking Nephi and Sam he picks up a thin branch and starts trying to thrash them.....yeah, that thing would not hurt much at all. I have four brothers and have had many fights. The only danger with that thing is accidentally poking them in the eye. They would have been better off with punches and kicks.

I know special effects are limited and showing the supernal and Holy is impossible to do in film but I thought the divine manifestations should have been brighter.

I think they should have made the scenes at night in Jerusalem darker. I find it very believable that Zoram did not recognize Laban in the dark but not on those sets and not with Zoram that close.

 

 

Some things that stood out:

Where are Nephi’s sisters? Or are they going with the “those were the wives of the sons of Ishmael” idea?

Lehi talks about burnt offerings but I did not see any animals except camels and I am pretty sure you do not sacrifice those.

Lehi’s tent was very nicely decorated.....are you sure you want to haul all of that with you?

Poor Lemuel did not get a lot of lines.

Lehi’s sermon to the people needed a lot of work. I guess he is new at the whole thing. The whole attack on him seemed artificial. Should have been after something offensive. Maybe some accusing him of being a Babylonian sympathizer spreading defeatism.

I wanted a Jeremiah scene.

 

On 9/24/2019 at 5:53 AM, gopher said:

I made the mistake of watching the video with some young women in the room.  Next time I'm watching it with guys only so I don't have to continually hear how hot Nephi is.  He does look a bit like Kylo Ren from Star Wars

Well, next one should involve Ishmael and his daughters so gender balance will be righted.

Edited September 28, 2019 by The Nehor

[JAHS]

On 9/28/2019 at 1:57 AM, The Nehor said:

My review of the first two videos. Liked them generally

 

Pros: 

I like that Nephi and Sam were reluctant to go as Nephi admitted in his account.

They captured Nephi’s first instinct when he found Laban to pull out the sword and look at how neat it is. Believable teenage boy behavior and from the way it was written in the Book of Mormon that was how it happened.

I liked Lehi’s general disgust with Jerusalem’s society as a catalyst for revelation.

Laman is more believable as a reluctant follower then the more common depiction as just a jerk. He seems to want to succeed and the adversarial brother relationship between the two “factions” is there but there is also a basic brotherly respect underneath it all and Laman is deferential to his father even when he disagrees. I hope they have that degenerate at the right pace.

The agreement to grab the wealth and try to buy the plates made sense but I wish there had been a line from Laman about how Nephi’s idea made a ton of sense and might work.

They put Laban on some steps with his head over the edge so the common “wouldn’t the armor and clothing be covered in blood?” criticism could not be levied.

 

Cons:

Laban’s beard......seriously, was I supposed to buy that thing was real?

Laban is the most incompetent villain ever. I realize they have to be able to escape but if that ambush is the best you can pull off in your own house when you knew they were coming you really suck at this. Your men stop pursuing at the gate. C’mon, train your men a little better. Also, if Nibley was right and Laban was the military governor of Jerusalem his death definitely did not weaken the defenses. Nephi did the city a favor getting rid of that “master” of strategy.

Okay, I have no idea how those lots they cast are supposed to work.

Yeah, I know you are trying to follow the scriptures but many of those are paraphrases of what people said. It gets stilted when a lot of it is read verbatim. Then again, it probably makes more sense to do it verbatim.

When Laman loses it and starts attacking Nephi and Sam he picks up a thin branch and starts trying to thrash them.....yeah, that thing would not hurt much at all. I have four brothers and have had many fights. The only danger with that thing is accidentally poking them in the eye. They would have been better off with punches and kicks.

I know special effects are limited and showing the supernal and Holy is impossible to do in film but I thought the divine manifestations should have been brighter.

I think they should have made the scenes at night in Jerusalem darker. I find it very believable that Zoram did not recognize Laban in the dark but not on those sets and not with Zoram that close.

 

 

Some things that stood out:

Where are Nephi’s sisters? Or are they going with the “those were the wives of the sons of Ishmael” idea?

Lehi talks about burnt offerings but I did not see any animals except camels and I am pretty sure you do not sacrifice those.

Lehi’s tent was very nicely decorated.....are you sure you want to haul all of that with you?

Poor Lemuel did not get a lot of lines.

Lehi’s sermon to the people needed a lot of work. I guess he is new at the whole thing. The whole attack on him seemed artificial. Should have been after something offensive. Maybe some accusing him of being a Babylonian sympathizer spreading defeatism.

I wanted a Jeremiah scene.

 

Well, next one should involve Ishmael and his daughters so gender balance will be righted.

Overall I think the videos serve their purpose of telling the story in a way that is good for the whole family and church members of all ages. 
One "con" I might add is how their clothing looks brand new, cleaned and pressed like it just came out of the wardrobe department.
For a realistic effect they should wrinkle and dirty it up a bit to make it look like they have been wearing them for a long time on their long journey.
They need to watch Star Wars. Everything in that movie looked like it had actually been used for a while.

[The Nehor]

On 9/24/2019 at 5:53 AM, gopher said:

I made the mistake of watching the video with some young women in the room.  Next time I'm watching it with guys only so I don't have to continually hear how hot Nephi is.  He does look a bit like Kylo Ren from Star Wars

I found out that my sister’s husband is cousin to the guy who plays Nephi. I passed along your report and my sister said he does not need to hear it. He is apparently already confident when it comes to girls.

He reportedly tried to grow a beard for the part but was too young. In later episodes he wears a fake one. He did end up dating the girl playing his wife but is now on his mission so who knows if that will last? His younger brother is supposed to play Joseph Smith in some kind of cameo later on. Maybe when they talk about Joseph getting the plates in prophecy.

Edited October 6, 2019 by The Nehor

[gopher]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I found out that my sister’s husband is cousin to the guy who plays Nephi. I passed along your report and my sister said he does not need to hear it. He is apparently already confident when it comes to girls.

He reportedly tried to grow a beard for the part but was too young. In later episodes he wears a fake one. He did end up dating the girl playing his wife but is now on his mission so who knows if that will last? His younger brother is supposed to play Joseph Smith in some kind of cameo later on. Maybe when they talk about Joseph getting the plates in prophecy.

I know a beehive young woman who will be disappointed to hear he has a girlfriend. That's funny about the beard.  Sis Gopher immediately stopped lusting after him when she saw a picture of him with the beard.  She doesn't think it looks good on him.  Makes sense since it's fake.

There's a good article in the New Era this month that quotes Jackson, the actor playing Nephi.  He's in Brazil on his mission according to the article. 

Laman looks like he could play a dwarf in the Lord of the Rings movies in one of the photos.

[MustardSeed]

Since Brother So and So bore his testimony this month on the new videos I thought I'd check them out today.

I'm sure they will help families and their FHE and scripture study.  That's a good thing.

For the record, I think the Laman and Lemuel actors are very good looking.  I like my men manly.  I'm not too pleased that obviously beards and scruff are the costume for evil and baby face is the costume for righteous, but that's who we are and what we do so OK.

I think the acting is so so - they are trying to pack a lot into a very short film so the back story and the character development is missing of course.  But for what it is trying to do, it's at least better than previous attempts. 

And I thought the Captain looked like Mitt right away. FWIW.