Question About Mission Financing

[Ahab]

10 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Well, I'm not sure what "obligation" means in this context.  A missionary is not going to be sent home for insufficient funds, and a family is not going to be punished for being unable (or even unwilling) to pay for missionary costs.  It's more a question of personal integrity and capacity.  I don't think coercion comes into play (not in my experience, anyway).

I'm not and never have been a rich man, monetarily speaking, so I think in terms of debt and the level of difficulty involved in staying out of debt. And I know the monetary costs of supporting someone on a mission can be rather high, by my own standards.

So it's good for me to know that a family with a child on a mission isn't really considered to be in debt even if they have a negative balance on their child's missionary account.  And that the cost can be covered by the ward missionary fund, if not at present then as soon as the ward missionary fund receives enough funds to cover the monetary costs.

I suppose for people who have more monetary wealth than I do they can consider paying the costs themselves without depending on the ward missionary fund to cover the costs.  Good for them if they can, and do.  I suppose that would leave more in the fund for those who can't really afford to pay the costs themselves.

[Bernard Gui]

8 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Finance clerk here.  I deal with this all the time.  A parent or bishop asks me for the current status of their missionary account. 

- If donations are made online, there's no real way to donate to a missionary's fund anonymously.  Your name shows up on the detailed report. 
- If you want to be anonymous, do cash and put "anonymous" on the deposit slip, indicating which missionary fund should receive the donation.
- I'm uncertain about donations done by check, I want to say your name shows up, but I'm not sure. 

Sometimes the bishop or parent asks for the summary report that just gives a total.  Sometimes they ask for a detailed report, which shows all transactions in and out of the individual missionary account, with a total.  

I do not notify the parents, or give them regular updates, or anything like that.  They come to me.

How do they know to come to you if they are not informed of other donations?

[Ahab]

3 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

How do they know to come to you if they are not informed of other donations?

Seems like they would know they needed to come to him, or their own clerk, after receiving and reviewing the report, as long as they know they can get a report.

"Sometimes the bishop or parent asks for the summary report that just gives a total.  Sometimes they ask for a detailed report, which shows all transactions in and out of the individual missionary account, with a total.  "

[Bernard Gui]

50 minutes ago, VAUFLDS said:

KSF is correct. I've spent quite of few of my recent years as a ward clerk/stake clerk. The parents don't know about other contributions and I have made it a habit to let the parents know that they can reduce their contribution near the end.

Well, that’s the best answer to my question. It seems to me there should be a clearly established mechanism for that. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[smac97]

5 minutes ago, Ahab said:

I'm not and never have been a rich man, monetarily speaking, so I think in terms of debt and the level of difficulty involved in staying out of debt. And I know the monetary costs of supporting someone on a mission can be rather high, by my own standards.

Yes.  And that burden can be eased by members of the ward.  Small contributions can really add up.  

In my ward (which is kind of small, and also "economically modest"), we currently do not have any missionaries out.  The next one up is my son, who graduates from high school next month.  Meanwhile, ward members contribute small amounts, which can add up over time.

In my experience, paying for missionary service is a point of honor for the individual and his family.  But sometimes reality gets in the way, in which case extended family, and ward members, can and should help out.  When that happens, there is (or should be) no shame or embarassment at all.  We all need help once in a while.  The bishop is there to handle such issues in confidence and with discretion.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Bernard Gui]

2 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Seems like they would know they needed to come to him, or their own clerk, after receiving and reviewing the report, as long as they know they can get a report.

"Sometimes the bishop or parent asks for the summary report that just gives a total.  Sometimes they ask for a detailed report, which shows all transactions in and out of the individual missionary account, with a total.  "

That sounds like Amazon expecting customers to keep track of their own orders and billing information. 

[Ahab]

1 minute ago, smac97 said:

In my experience, paying for missionary service is a point of honor for the individual and his family.  But sometimes reality gets in the way, in which case extended family, and ward members, can and should help out.  When that happens, there is (or should be) no shame or embarassment at all.  We all need help once in a while.  The bishop is there to handle such issues in confidence and with discretion.

I wholeheartedly agree.  Pride is a terrible thing and being monetarily poor has done a lot to help me to overcome and avoid it in favor and appreciation for the wonderful thing we refer to as Charity, as well as to live by the principles involved in the United Order.

We all need to help each other out and the more we can work together the better off all of us are.

[Ahab]

7 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

That sounds like Amazon expecting customers to keep track of their own orders and billing information. 

Uh, yeah, I guess so, a little bit.  I'm signed up with Amazon and I keep track of my orders and billing information.  How else is Amazon supposed to know what I want and where to send my stuff to me?  And who is paying for what we order on our account with them?

And you better betcha that I go to them if I see any error on my billing statements!  If I or my wife didn't order what they sent us or bill us for then I don't consider that we are obligated to pay for what they send us.

My point though was that if I am supposed to at least be aware of the costs of my child's missionary costs then I would expect to be able to go to someone to get some kind of report of the costs I am expected to at least be aware of.

And then of course I would know that I should go to someone if I had or saw some kind of problem with those costs, while also being thankful to anyone who could help me to pay for or reverse the charges on those costs.

[Scott Lloyd]

3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

A scenario....

A missionary's parents make full regular payments for his/her mission support.

A family member, friend, or anonymous donor also contributes occasionally.

Are the parents notified of the other donations?
How are those donations handled?

 

 

An assistant ward clerk over finances here. 

First, I don’t believe one can donate anonymously through the Church or its local unit to support a missionary. There has to be someone to whom the donation can be credited. 

The donation can be made through the ward unbeknownst to the missionary or his/her family (maybe that’s what you meant by “anonymously”). In that instance, the only way for the missionary and/or family to know of the donation is to ask one of the clerks to print out a statement of donations (which they will gladly do). 

I have a story to share. When I was called to my position, I learned that the ward still had a donation account for our son, even though he had been home for more than a year. I also learned that there is still money in his account, about a month’s worth. Evidently, someone had donated to his fund too late for him to use the money. 

I was told the money cannot be cashed out and given to our family. However, it can, at our discretion, be applied toward the mission of another missionary. When another of our sons reaches missionary age in a couple of years, my hope and expectation is that we can apply the leftover funds to his mission. 

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Yes.  And that burden can be eased by members of the ward.  Small contributions can really add up.  

In my ward (which is kind of small, and also "economically modest"), we currently do not have any missionaries out.  The next one up is my son, who graduates from high school next month.  Meanwhile, ward members contribute small amounts, which can add up over time.

In my experience, paying for missionary service is a point of honor for the individual and his family.  But sometimes reality gets in the way, in which case extended family, and ward members, can and should help out.  When that happens, there is (or should be) no shame or embarassment at all.  We all need help once in a while.  The bishop is there to handle such issues in confidence and with discretion.

Thanks,

-Smac

I’ll go farther than that and say a missionary should, if possible, be supported in his mission totally by family and by caring friends and ward members. The mission thus becomes a group sacrifice and bonding experience. The missionary is already sacrificing just by being there. 

A young man (or young woman) should be encouraged to work and save on his own. But insofar as possible, his funds should be freed up to pay for education, prepare for marriage and ultimately make a down payment on a home. 

Edited September 16, 2019 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

How do they know to come to you if they are not informed of other donations?

When our son was out, I would ask periodically on my own initiative. 

[JAHS]

Our ward tries to keeps a balance of about 3 months worth of missionary money for each missionary in reserve. Ward members can contribute to a specific missionary, but really it all is considered part of the Ward missionary account.
Keeping track of individual missionaries balances is for the benefit of the Bishop and family.  Only the person who donates can see  what he has donated to any ward missionary account.  But a balance for a specific missionary can be obtained by the ward finance clerk.

 

[Rain]

1 hour ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I don't get that at all.  You went up to the clerk and asked.  That isn't asking?  Thinking maybe dude needs a little more training.  You are the parent/legal guardian, right?  And there are no legal issues or separations or divorces or anything like that, right?

That's my understanding as well, and yes, whether someone is tight with money or not, the parents/legal guardians should have access to this information, so they can manage their donations/contributions appropriately.

So dude told you to ask.  Go tell your bishop what the clerk said, and say "I am asking you to tell your clerk to give me this detailed report whenever I ask for it.  Is that a problem?"

 

The Lord's house is a house of order, and we bend over backwards to keep the finances correct and appropriate.  But training and experience from volunteer clerks can be an issue.

I was asking if I could go online somewhere and see what the balance was in his account like where you can see what you have paid for tithing and fast offerings etc. It never occurred to me that I would need to know what was in it until I learned from the clerk that his first payment was taken out of the account 2 weeks before he was entering the MTC.   Had I known we would have paid before now.  Learning that someone had already paid $5 then I understood it would be good to know what other people were paying as well - and no, I don't care who or how much they paid.  It would just be nice to know how much our balance is. 

And yes, I can ask the clerk, but that entails waiting till he is available to talk to, waiting till he can get on the system and waiting till he gets back with me.    Not a big deal, but if I am paying for the month online while I do my bills it would be nice just to see then.  

[Ahab]

9 minutes ago, Rain said:

I was asking if I could go online somewhere and see what the balance was in his account like where you can see what you have paid for tithing and fast offerings etc. It never occurred to me that I would need to know what was in it until I learned from the clerk that his first payment was taken out of the account 2 weeks before he was entering the MTC.   Had I known we would have paid before now.  Learning that someone had already paid $5 then I understood it would be good to know what other people were paying as well - and no, I don't care who or how much they paid.  It would just be nice to know how much our balance is. 

And yes, I can ask the clerk, but that entails waiting till he is available to talk to, waiting till he can get on the system and waiting till he gets back with me.    Not a big deal, but if I am paying for the month online while I do my bills it would be nice just to see then.  

Looks like you've already been informed that the monthly cost is $400.  If you can't pay it all by yourself I'm sure there will be some more donations coming. My advice to you is to not worry about it but to help support your child as you are able.

[mfbukowski]

2 hours ago, smac97 said:

The missionary and his family have the primary obligation, but ward mission funds step in where needed/appropriate.

Well, I'm not sure what "obligation" means in this context.  A missionary is not going to be sent home for insufficient funds, and a family is not going to be punished for being unable (or even unwilling) to pay for missionary costs.  It's more a question of personal integrity and capacity.  I don't think coercion comes into play (not in my experience, anyway).

For me, I see no impediment at all to contributing to the ward missionary fund.  It is akin to paying Fast Offerings.  Both contributions stay at the ward level, and help at the ward level.  This is left to the reasonably-exercised discretion of the bishop.  Ward missionary funds are sacred, and cannot be allocated to any other purpose.  Fast offerings are likewise sacred, but bishops have a bit more leeway in their distribution (rents, car repairs, clothing, etc.).

When I was in our ward's bishopric, our bishop authorized payments from the ward mission fund to cover negative balances.  The bishop would first discuss the matter with the family, and then authorize assistance as appropriate.  Sometimes the arrears are inadvertent.  Sometimes they are only temporary.  Sometimes the family is just struggling to keep up.  Such matters are handled with tact and decorum, and on a case-by-case basis.

Thanks,

-Smac

This is correct, in my experience, a good and accurate description.

You don't get your "money back" after donating it for fast offerings or missionary work or tithing for that matter. Of course if you are in need and the bishop decides that you need assistance, then that's up to the bishop.

You will not go broke giving to the Lord, one way or the other. Pay your offerings first and practically speaking if you then need assistance the bishop will help you.

Edited September 17, 2019 by mfbukowski

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

Looks like you've already been informed that the monthly cost is $400.  If you can't pay it all by yourself I'm sure there will be some more donations coming. My advice to you is to not worry about it but to help support your child as you are able.

Except that I thought the cost recently went up to $500 a month. Or has that not gone into effect yet?

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

When our son was out, I would ask periodically on my own initiative. 

Did someone advise you to do that? Seems to me that should be SOP if there is no set practice to inform parents.

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

This is correct, in my experience, a good and accurate description.

You don't get your "money back" after donating it for fast offerings or missionary work or tithing for that matter. Of course if you are in need and the bishop decides that you need assistance, then that's up to the bishop.

You will not go broke giving to the Lord, one way or the other. Pay your offerings first and practically speaking if you then need assistance the bishop will help you.

But you do not donate with the understanding that your donation is earmarked for a specific person. For example, non-member family who feel like they want to help even though they may not share an interest in the cause. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

I was asking if I could go online somewhere and see what the balance was in his account like where you can see what you have paid for tithing and fast offerings etc. It never occurred to me that I would need to know what was in it until I learned from the clerk that his first payment was taken out of the account 2 weeks before he was entering the MTC.   Had I known we would have paid before now.  Learning that someone had already paid $5 then I understood it would be good to know what other people were paying as well - and no, I don't care who or how much they paid.  It would just be nice to know how much our balance is. 

And yes, I can ask the clerk, but that entails waiting till he is available to talk to, waiting till he can get on the system and waiting till he gets back with me.    Not a big deal, but if I am paying for the month online while I do my bills it would be nice just to see then.  

It seems to me a system could easily be created for parents to be able to do just that. 

[JAHS]

47 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Except that I thought the cost recently went up to $500 a month. Or has that not gone into effect yet?

Many of them did but there's still a few that are 400.

The change, which is an increase from the current mission cost of $400 per month, will apply to missionaries serving from Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Finland, Germany, Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Norway, Switzerland, Sweden, the United Kingdom and the United States.

The mission cost will remain at $400 per month or the local equivalent for missionaries from all other countries. According to the letter, this is the first increase in mission price since 2003.

Edited September 17, 2019 by JAHS
Edited to add the new cost of $500 starts July 2020.

[Amulek]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

First, I don’t believe one can donate anonymously through the Church or its local unit to support a missionary. There has to be someone to whom the donation can be credited.

Sure you can. Just fill out a tithing slip with the amount designated for the Ward Mission fund, specify the missionary you want to assist, pay in cash, and then fill in "Anonymous" as your name. Boom - anonymous donation.

It won't show up under your donations, and it won't show up on your year-end contribution statement either, but if you really want to help a specific missionary, completely anonymously, it can be done.

In fact, our ward has an anonymous account already set up. We mainly use it for when someone brings a visitor to church from another faith, and he doesn't know what to do with the tithing he brought because we never passed the plate.

The donation invariably ends up in an envelope, without a slip, and gets opened by the newly called, first-time-serving bishopric member who also just so happens to be working with the one financial clerk who hasn't learned how to complete his own donations online.

 

[Ginger Snaps]

51 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Except that I thought the cost recently went up to $500 a month. Or has that not gone into effect yet?

July 1, 2020

[JAHS]

33 minutes ago, Amulek said:

Sure you can. Just fill out a tithing slip with the amount designated for the Ward Mission fund, specify the missionary you want to assist, pay in cash, and then fill in "Anonymous" as your name. Boom - anonymous donation.

It won't show up under your donations, and it won't show up on your year-end contribution statement either, but if you really want to help a specific missionary, completely anonymously, it can be done.

In fact, our ward has an anonymous account already set up. We mainly use it for when someone brings a visitor to church from another faith, and he doesn't know what to do with the tithing he brought because we never passed the plate.

The donation invariably ends up in an envelope, without a slip, and gets opened by the newly called, first-time-serving bishopric member who also just so happens to be working with the one financial clerk who hasn't learned how to complete his own donations online.

 

When that happens and they don't specify what it's for we just put it in the Fast Offerings category.

[Amulek]

2 hours ago, Rain said:

I was asking if I could go online somewhere and see what the balance was in his account like where you can see what you have paid for tithing and fast offerings etc.

Well, that's sort of the hitch right? Unlike your account where you can see all of your own donations and whatnot, what you are asking to see is technically information regarding someone else's account. 

I know we're not exactly talking about 'above top secret' material here, but I suspect that's a part of why something like this isn't readily available. 

 

Quote

It never occurred to me that I would need to know what was in it until I learned from the clerk that his first payment was taken out of the account 2 weeks before he was entering the MTC.  

Payments usually get withdrawn on the same day for everyone, regardless of whether or not they are technically 'on their mission' that particular day. If they are going to be serving during that month then they'll get hit with the cost of service for the month - there's no pro-rating based on how many days you were technically out. It makes the accounting much simpler and it all ends up being a wash in the end. 

 

Quote

Had I known we would have paid before now.

This is absolutely, positively, not a big deal - at all. Seriously, don't even give it a second thought. 

Just because you handle your books on a different cycle than what the church is doing for accounting purposes, doesn't mean a thing.

It isn't like you are behind on your car payment and the repo man is going to come looking for you. 

 

Quote

Learning that someone had already paid $5 then I understood it would be good to know what other people were paying as well - and no, I don't care who or how much they paid.  It would just be nice to know how much our balance is. 

And yes, I can ask the clerk, but that entails waiting till he is available to talk to, waiting till he can get on the system and waiting till he gets back with me.    Not a big deal, but if I am paying for the month online while I do my bills it would be nice just to see then. 

I can understand how it would be more convenient to just access the information whenever you want, but it's really not difficult for clerks to look it up.

The information is available online through the Leader and Clerk Resources site, so they don't have to be at church or anything in order to "get on the system." Just shoot them a text/email whenever you need the info, and they should be able to get back to you whenever they have a free minute. It honestly doesn't take more than a minute or two - even with an old, slow smartphone. 

If you do your bills the same time each month you can maybe send your request the day before to be safe, or ask them to just send you a report on the x^th day of each month. 

 

[Scott Lloyd]

6 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Did someone advise you to do that? Seems to me that should be SOP if there is no set practice to inform parents.

As I recall, I asked about it one time and was informed I could request a statement from the financial clerk any time I wanted. 

Perhaps I should have done it more often. Maybe then we wouldn’t have ended up with unused money in the account. 

Edited to add: Come to think of it, I don’t believe I even had to ask. The bishop volunteered the information prior to our son departing. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Scott Lloyd