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Rain

Women in the scriptures thought exercise

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In responding in another thread I thought of this exercise. I'd like this to be an exercise for this thread and for your life the next couple of weeks.  

It has multi parts. 

1. The next time you come up with mothers of the stripling warriors first as an example of some gospel topic in your day to day lives try to find an example of another woman or group of women from the scriptures to use instead.

2.  The next time you come up with a man in the scriptures first as an example of some gospel topic in your day to day lives try to find an example of a woman or group of women (but not the stripling warrior moms) from the scriptures to use instead.

3. I'm going to list topics below. Share examples of women in the scriptures that showed this without using the stripling warrior moms. Bonus if you can use a different woman for each.

In a couple of weeks I'd like to come back to this and see if it has made a difference in how we think or approach women in the scriptures. These have to be actual women, not just scriptures describing what women are, like the ruby passage.

1. Faith

2. Leadership

3. Knowledge

4.Wisdom

5. Action in a calling/mission

6. Strength

7. Testimony

8. Diligence

9. Obedience

10. Hope

For example, Jochebed could be used for action - she hid Moses, her son, for 3 months and then sent him down the Nile, possibly sending Miriam to look after what happens to him.

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1 hour ago, Rain said:

1. Faith

2. Leadership

3. Knowledge

4.Wisdom

5. Action in a calling/mission

6. Strength

7. Testimony

8. Diligence

9. Obedience

10. Hope

 

This is my list, before I read what anyone else puts up. I did have to do a lot of cogitating. Maybe I need to reread my scriptures with a different perspective.

Glenn

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I like Zelophehad's daughters. Correct me if I am wrong, but Zelophehad was a guy (in Moses' time) with 5 daughters but no male heir. When he died the daughters would bupkus, just due to the fact of being women and they thought that wasn't right. So, they petitioned Moses in front of the Temple and he took the case to God who granted them what they wanted. Otherwise all Zelophehad's stuff would go somewhere else and not to his daughters. In a similar real life situation, we had a Bishop who was impossible to work with. His councilours were the twit twins. His ward council meetings were a total joke. Complaints ran high and even we had Elder Bradley Foster of the 70 attend Stake Conference and taught us how to hold an effective ward council meeting but to no avail. What broke it all open was the RS President basically chewed him out, in a dignified way and then things changed!!!! and good for her for doing so. We couldn't get the ball to roll but she did.

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My Sister owns a book called, “Women of the Bible”,  given to her by my Mother. It is a book I read much more than my sister, however. There are so many fantastic true (I believe) stories. Such as Ruth who saved her people thought her bravely. Deborah, who when God could not find a worthy man, chose her to lead the armies of Israel, and so many more. BTW, I hope I did not make any mistakes, but I did not pause to look it up. Sadly, there are so many less in other Scriptures, not sure if looking for a man’s imput, but I am just a Scripture Geek, of the first order. Oh, and not the “First Order” of Star Wars, oh wait, the geek is showing again! 

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1 minute ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

My Sister owns a book called, “Women of the Bible”,  given to her by my Mother. It is a book I read much more than my sister, however. There are so many fantastic true (I believe) stories. Such as Ruth who saved her people thought her bravely. Deborah, who when God could not find a worthy man, chose her to lead the armies of Israel, and so many more. BTW, I hope I did not make any mistakes, but I did not pause to look it up. Sadly, there are so many less in other Scriptures, not sure if looking for a man’s imput, but I am just a Scripture Geek, of the first order. Oh, and not the “First Order” of Star Wars, oh wait, the geek is showing again! 

I think you meant Esther instead of Ruth there. I guess you could argue that Ruth’s bravery in giving up her culture to accept that of Israel led to the bloodline of Christ that saved her people but that is a bit of a stretch.

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1. Faith:  Mary

2. Leadership:  Deborah

3. Knowledge:  Anna 

4.Wisdom:  Eve

5. Action in a calling/mission:  Esther

6. Strength:  Jael

7. Testimony:  Abish

8. Diligence:  Ruth

9. Obedience:  Hagar

10. Hope:  Hannah

 

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2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I think you meant Esther instead of Ruth there. I guess you could argue that Ruth’s bravery in giving up her culture to accept that of Israel led to the bloodline of Christ that saved her people but that is a bit of a stretch.

OK, did not have my scriptures at the ready. Sorry for error, Esther you are right about, and wonder herself. When my Sister got married she left the book I referenced behind, and I jus love all things Bible, BoM, D&C, PoGP. I owned, or did at one time, over 100+ books, on about Scripture. Gave many away a few years back. The three I am currently reading on my nightstand, other that the listed scriptures are...

What Happened To The Cross (Distinctive LDS Teachings) by Robert L Millet

All These Things Shall Give Thee Experience, by Neal A Maxwell 

Whom The Lord Loveth (The Journey of Discipleship) by Neal A Maxwell

It would seem that from the age of 11, growing up with a Father who was a minister, it has always been my passion, my hobby, and just what I do with almost all my free time. Poetry, is the gift that God has giving me, with 99% of all I have written or published, as the outcropping of that passion of scripture and theology. I began my short ministry in the Baptist pulpit at 19, only to find a new Faith at 22. I have shared some of that poetry in the Social Forum, but no many. I fear it will be seen and little more than vanity, or as violations of rules on pruly personal posts. My love of scripture, inspired by the love of my parents, helped cure to a great degree my dyslexia, although many may not think so. But grammar and punctuation, woeful as always. One reason I excel at technical issues and mathematics, topics that I teach, is because it does not draw as much on the other disciplines, afore mentioned.  

 

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5 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Faith - Ruth

Leadership - Deborah

Knowledge - Queen of Sheba

Wisdom - Rahab

Action in a Calling/Mission - Abish

Strength - Miriam

Testimony - Susanna (does apocrypha count?)

Diligence - Martha

Obedience - Mary, mother of Jesus

Hope - Hannah

And I want to add:

Courage - Jehosheba

Humility/Willing Condescension - Eve (it may seem an inappropriate virtue but my suspicions about the Garden and the Fall put both Adam and Eve right below the Savior in terms of giving themselves up to save others.

 

For this exercise, yes, apocrypha can count.

4 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

This is my list, before I read what anyone else puts up. I did have to do a lot of cogitating. Maybe I need to reread my scriptures with a different perspective.

Glenn

I fully admit I need to do some cogitating as well.  It was only when my daughter started asking about women in the scriptures that I realized I did not know much about them.  

3 hours ago, Duncan said:

I like Zelophehad's daughters. Correct me if I am wrong, but Zelophehad was a guy (in Moses' time) with 5 daughters but no male heir. When he died the daughters would bupkus, just due to the fact of being women and they thought that wasn't right. So, they petitioned Moses in front of the Temple and he took the case to God who granted them what they wanted. Otherwise all Zelophehad's stuff would go somewhere else and not to his daughters. In a similar real life situation, we had a Bishop who was impossible to work with. His councilours were the twit twins. His ward council meetings were a total joke. Complaints ran high and even we had Elder Bradley Foster of the 70 attend Stake Conference and taught us how to hold an effective ward council meeting but to no avail. What broke it all open was the RS President basically chewed him out, in a dignified way and then things changed!!!! and good for her for doing so. We couldn't get the ball to roll but she did.

This is a story I will have to look into.  While I've read the OT a couple of times I fully admit I nowhere caught it all.  Thanks for something more to search.  

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3 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

My Sister owns a book called, “Women of the Bible”,  given to her by my Mother. It is a book I read much more than my sister, however. There are so many fantastic true (I believe) stories. Such as Ruth who saved her people thought her bravely. Deborah, who when God could not find a worthy man, chose her to lead the armies of Israel, and so many more. BTW, I hope I did not make any mistakes, but I did not pause to look it up. Sadly, there are so many less in other Scriptures, not sure if looking for a man’s input, but I am just a Scripture Geek, of the first order. Oh, and not the “First Order” of Star Wars, oh wait, the geek is showing again! 

I gave my daughter Women of the New Testament and Women of the Old Testament because she was having a hard time  connecting with only men in the scriptures.  Yesterday as I talked with a relative who loves me very much about some of my current struggles he brought up the stripling warrior moms, not knowing how painful it is for me to constantly be given that story as a means of comfort. And then the stripling warrior moms were brought up on another thread.

So this morning, realizing that I can't expect others to come up with different examples if I can't I stole the books form my daughter's room and plan to use them to study more about women in the scriptures for the next little while.  I REALLY love that "Women of the Bible" has been a part of your studies. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Rain said:

I gave my daughter Women of the New Testament and Women of the Old Testament because she was having a hard time  connecting with only men in the scriptures.  Yesterday as I talked with a relative who loves me very much about some of my current struggles he brought up the stripling warrior moms, not knowing how painful it is for me to constantly be given that story as a means of comfort. And then the stripling warrior moms were brought up on another thread.

So this morning, realizing that I can't expect others to come up with different examples if I can't I stole the books form my daughter's room and plan to use them to study more about women in the scriptures for the next little while.  I REALLY love that "Women of the Bible" has been a part of your studies. 

 

 

I know not all do not read Scripture as much as I do, and there books that can shine a different light on Women in the Bible. But for those who read, ponder and pray in their scripture study, they will see stories, and scriptures will inspire everyone. We only need look close enough, and there is a large spectrum of hero’s and heroine’s, from which to find inspiration, and strength.  

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5 hours ago, Duncan said:

I like Zelophehad's daughters. Correct me if I am wrong, but Zelophehad was a guy (in Moses' time) with 5 daughters but no male heir. When he died the daughters would bupkus, just due to the fact of being women and they thought that wasn't right. So, they petitioned Moses in front of the Temple and he took the case to God who granted them what they wanted. Otherwise all Zelophehad's stuff would go somewhere else and not to his daughters.

I have always thought this was a great story.  Rehab as well.  Tamar...admire her guts, but not sure if her solution to her difficulty (needing a child to have standing, to fulfill her role in her community) was the best.  It might have been though the only option left to her, Judah appears to have judged her blameless.

Edited by Calm
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For those having a harder time remembering the names that go along with the stories, wiki has conveniently listed everyone in the Bible in alphabetical order:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_women_in_the_Bible

For full quad:

http://www.womeninthescriptures.com/

Edited by Calm

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10 hours ago, Rain said:

.............................................

1. Faith

2. Leadership

3. Knowledge

4.Wisdom

5. Action in a calling/mission

6. Strength

7. Testimony

8. Diligence

9. Obedience

10. Hope

..........................

I note that you left out prophet/prophecy.  Is that accidental, or because no woman could or has fulfilled that role?

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2 hours ago, Calm said:

I have always thought this was a great story.  Rehab as well.  Tamar...admire her guts, but not sure if her solution to her difficulty (needing a child to have standing, to fulfill her role in her community) was the best.  It might have been though the only option left to her, Judah appears to have judged her blameless.

Would you say the same of Lot's daughters?

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8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

..................... Ruth’s bravery in giving up her culture to accept that of Israel led to the bloodline of Christ that saved her people ..........................

Yes, and Ruth's new-found faith, through loyalty, would have been nothing without the leadership and advice from her mother-in-law Naomi.

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1. Faith: Martha, sister of Lazarus. “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.  But I know that even now God will give you whatever you ask.”

2. Leadership: Rebekah: Intervened when her elderly husband wanted to make the wrong son his successor.

3. Knowledge: Eve: Inquiring minds want to know. She ate the fruit…

4.Wisdom: Naomi: Instructed her daughter in law to perform a really weird ritual in order to secure an awesome husband. Worked like a charm!

5. Action in a calling/mission: Jael: pretty much just a bada$$. Pounded a stake through the bad guy’s heart. Definitely a woman of action. Deborah was so impressed she wrote a song about her.

6. Strength: Sarai/Sarah. Where to start? She was amazing.

7. Testimony: Mary. Her soul magnified the Lord and her spirit rejoiced in God.

8. Diligence: Leah: Hung in there with her prettier sister and gave their husband six strapping sons and a beautiful daughter for good measure!

9. Obedience: Ruth: every woman’s dream daughter-in-law. What a sweetheart!

10. Hope: MIchal: She saved David’s life in the hope he would love and appreciate her. Instead he deserted her and married two other women. Later, he took her away from her second husband (who loved her) so that he would have a stronger claim to the throne.

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55 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Would you say the same of Lot's daughters?

Lot's daughters were surely a literary device to insult Israel's enemies. I mean seriously, there were three people present. Who on earth would have admitted to such shenanigans?

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2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Would you say the same of Lot's daughters?

Would I say what of Lot’s daughters?

Tamar risked death to have a child after trying over and over for years to do things the culturally appropriate way.  Judah could have denied he slept with her and said instead she somehow stole his possessions or perhaps just had her killed or banned for her deceit, so I see her behavior as courageous, if immoral.  There is no indication she went to the Lord with her problem and in faith gave him an opportunity to act on her behalf, so I am not approving of her choice or saying she should be a role model even if I think she is brave.  Being brave isn’t always good.

Lot’s daughters otoh appeared to quickly give into fear and took the immoral route of getting their father drunk without ever having tried any other options first as far as the story goes.  It is not like they had a great relationship with him anyway in that he offered for them to be raped to save himself and the men that were his guests, rather than being willing to defend them with his own life. 

If their life story is true (which I doubt given in part Katherine's point), all I gain from that is some families are self destructive.  I see nothing positive in anyone’s behaviour in that family as described. 

Edited by Calm
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1 hour ago, katherine the great said:

Pounded a stake through the bad guy’s heart.

Through his head...hammer meets nail meets ear, then brain. What a woman!

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1. Faith - Leah - i love the passage of her coming to understand God’s real blessing and actions in her life even if it wasn’t what she expected 

2. Leadership-  the Lamanite queen - making decisions in a time of confusion and coming coversion of the people

3. Knowledge - Huldah - she expounded unknown scripture as a prophetess to the leaders of the israelites in her time

4.Wisdom -  deborah - hor how she guided and taught her people

5. Action in a calling/mission - Abish for her work in sharing the gospel at the right time

6. Strength - Jael —> lady went against her husband’s betrayal of israel and assuring their protection and their tribes long-time kinship by killing Israel’s enemy/// also Adah and Zillah - for calling out the evil their husband was planning on

7. Testimony - Mary—> a number of the stories come from her remembering events from Jesus’s life and sharing them. 

8. Diligence - Eve - for going through with the fall and moving forward

9. Obedience - esther - for doing what God desired even if it put herself in danger

10. Hope - hagar - for finding meaning in god in a dire moment 

 

this was a fun exercise :) 

with luv,

BD 

Edited by BlueDreams
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1 hour ago, katherine the great said:

 

5. Action in a calling/mission: Jael: pretty much just a bada$$. Pounded a stake through the bad guy’s heart. Definitely a woman of action. Deborah was so impressed she wrote a song about her.

that’s exactly how i think of her!

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2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I note that you left out prophet/prophecy.  Is that accidental, or because no woman could or has fulfilled that role?

No reason. Just tried to come up with topics you might be assigned for a talk. Thought that would be any easy way to do it. Mind went blank! So I looked at Christlike attributes in Preach My Gospel and at the topical guide.

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56 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

Even better! 😄

There is something so definite about it.  

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