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Bill “Papa” Lee

Moral Authority, Moral Absolutes, and the Authority to Act.

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In both the present and past, many have asserted that they have the “Moral Authority”, to define or to profess, that which is right and that which is wrong. In both the present and the past, opposition to such claims have been challenged, that neither, or none of these organizations or institutions (Churches) have no such authority. This is of course is the wonder, beauty, and the paradox of free will. Most certainly those on both sides, have many bad examples (but not all bad) of past behavior of many such organizations, even their own shortcomings, to which they can point. Some shortcomings, which my be their own, presents a wonderful opportunity to learn and change, or sadly for some, never learn, or never change at all. 

Therefore, I wish to point to an “Authority”, upon which (hopefully) most, or all can agree upon, being the Holy Scriptures. Most certainly those who do not recognize any scripture as having any such authority, are most welcome to comment on the thread. But, the central argument of the thread is that, God the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ, aided by the Holy Spirit did, and does speak to those whom “He” has chosen. Also since this is a Latter-day Saint website, it seems only fair that all LDS Canon, The Bible, The Book of Mormon, The Doctrine and Covenants, The Pearl of Great Price, and the words of living (or not) Prophets and Apostles since the restoration be included. I speak primarily of Gerneral Conference talks, with the latter, rather than books that may or may not speak of personal opinions, which can span the spectrum of opinions on many topics, on doctrine, or even politics.  

Instead of trying to list all 613 sins that some ancient groups may list, or seeking to list every sin I can find in all of scripture. I will start with the Apostle Paul, and the sins he lists, contained in Galatians 5: 19-26, where he begins with these words...”Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; 

Adultery

 Fornication

Uncleannesses (as it relates to our souls of course) 

Emulations

Lasciviousness

Idolatry

Whichcraft 

Hatred 

Variance 

Emulations

Wrath

Strife

Seditions

Heresies

Eveyings

Murders

Drunkenness

 Rebelling...

and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the Kigdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is...

Love

Peace

 Longsuffering 

Gentleness 

Goodness

Faith

Meekness 

Temperance,

...against such there is no law.

Of couse all things are [sic].

If one reads, in its entirety, all Scriptures paints this perfect pattern, and all Conference talks, including those in just a few weeks, will paint the the pattern and picture. Not only are we bound by these laws, via God’s Word, so is God himself. The lawmaker does not seek to exalt hiself above the law, but even OT Scripture mentions that in his wrath (although righteous) Moses pleaded with God and on more than one occasion, and scripture states, “that God repented of the evil which he sought to do”. This is a powerful witness of the authority of his word. 

Now there are organizations that established rules, which rules can be amended at will. When I served in the Military, the UMCJ (Uniformed Code of Military Justice) once enlisted, I was bound by the rules therein stated. For instance, many of the sins listed above are cout marshal offenses. For instance, although Adultery is not crime in the civilian world, it is a crime in the military world, one that I have seen men and women tried, convicted, even jailed for breaking it. So it is with the Church, many commandments are for us as members, and do not apply to any other groups, such as the Word of Wisdom) unless it is drunkenness. But the sins of scripture apply to all believers, and all non-believers, as God will judge both. 

Sorry for the lengthy post, but I now open it up to any thoughts, to all who may wish. 

  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Whichcraft

Which craft?  Like when I'm making something and nobody but me (and God) knows what I am making?

Hmm.  I didn't know that one was a sin, but, okay, I'll check with God on that one.

By the way, I understand a sin to be something that the person doing it knows God does not approve of, which is why it is impossible to commit a sin in ignorance.

So even if I am practicing whichcraft, if I don't know it's a sin (something God does not approve of) then God will not hold it against me because I didn't know it was a sin when I did it.

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27 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Which craft?  Like when I'm making something and nobody but me (and God) knows what I am making?

Hmm.  I didn't know that one was a sin, but, okay, I'll check with God on that one.

By the way, I understand a sin to be something that the person doing it knows God does not approve of, which is why it is impossible to commit a sin in ignorance.

So even if I am practicing whichcraft, if I don't know it's a sin (something God does not approve of) then God will not hold it against me because I didn't know it was a sin when I did it.

I listed it because it was in the scriptures I referenced, least someone started to ask why I did not list it. As for how God thinks, I have never suffered from the vanity that would make me think I am qualified to do so. I only have the Scriptures as my guide, I hope that is cleared up quickly, nor am I a “Judge in Israel”, something for which I am sure God rejoices. But I am someone who try’s to be as good a man as I can, somedays good, others woefully inadequate, although I know I loved as his child, but only as he loves all his children. So, there is the water’s edge, where my vanity ends. 

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I prefer hermetic sorcery to witchcraft in any case.

I also think we need to keep the idea of sin real and not undermine seriousness but I also believe that charity covereth a multitude of sins, both the charity of others lifting us up without condemnation and our own charity leading us to a better way.

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26 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I prefer hermetic sorcery to witchcraft in any case.

I also think we need to keep the idea of sin real and not undermine seriousness but I also believe that charity covereth a multitude of sins, both the charity of others lifting us up without condemnation and our own charity leading us to a better way.

Very well said. 

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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I prefer hermetic sorcery to witchcraft in any case.

Yeah but here all we get is hermeneutic sorcery

Or did I misinterpret you? ;)

 

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Speaking of the authority to act, I have this to say.

Hi my name is Mark Bukowski and I'm a board a holic.

Hey that's marginally better than being addicted to Candy Crush.!

But I will be off for at least a week if anybody cares.

Pax vobiscom.

A pax on you all! ;)

 

Edited by mfbukowski
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3 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

But I will be off for at least a week if anybody cares.

Pax vobiscom.

A pax on you all! ;)

I care(to quote an infinitely famous person from a galaxy, far, far away...). Where shall I go for my daily fix of Bukowskiism? I feel the withdrawals already beginning... Elizabeth, I'm coming to join ya....

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