Calm Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 Here a video of Trump asking for a pledge to vote for him no matter what: https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/03/05/donald-trump-asks-audience-to-raise-their-hands-and-pledge-to-vote.cnn Link to comment
Calm Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) Looking at the way people were moving their arms through many positions, I am even less likely to assume the positions in the snapshot are salutes. There was one guy who had the perfect form in the video for a few seconds, but prior to that he was all over the place and looked distracted by a neighbor as well, so it seems that was unintentional to me. So less than perfect form is even more doubtful. I don’t trust snapshots enough for that kind of judgment. Context is everything: https://www.businessinsider.com/why-a-woman-gave-the-nazi-salute-at-the-chicago-trump-rally-2016-3 https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-birgitt-peterson-trump-rally-met-0313-20160312-story.html Now this group, context is much more on target: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/21/us/alt-right-salutes-donald-trump.amp.html Edited September 16, 2019 by Calm Link to comment
longview Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 10 minutes ago, Calm said: Here a video of Trump asking for a pledge to vote for him no matter what: https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/03/05/donald-trump-asks-audience-to-raise-their-hands-and-pledge-to-vote.cnn More like "Get Out the Vote" pledge. Not at all like a loyalty oath. I watched the video: when Trump finished with the pledge, the people brought both arms up over their heads and clapped. No rigid stiff arm salute. On the other hand, communists do raise the clenched fist upwardly, rigidly, defiantly. This is just as frightful and terrifying as German kind. Antifas do that kind of thing. Link to comment
The Nehor Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 38 minutes ago, longview said: Pledging loyalty? The SS swore a soldier's oath to Adolf. Freedom loving Americans don't do that kind of stuff. You need to provide more documentation for this slander. If it was a pledge then a lot more people would look somber and stand in more formal manner. There would not be as many people casually sitting or lounging without raised arms. It was a pledge. Trump asked for a pledge of loyalty to vote for him in many rallies. I invite you to look up the text of the various times he administered the pledge. Guess they are not freedom loving Americans..... 1 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 13 minutes ago, longview said: More like "Get Out the Vote" pledge. Not at all like a loyalty oath. I watched the video: when Trump finished with the pledge, the people brought both arms up over their heads and clapped. No rigid stiff arm salute. On the other hand, communists do raise the clenched fist upwardly, rigidly, defiantly. This is just as frightful and terrifying as German kind. Antifas do that kind of thing. Get out the vote pledge is a pledge to vote, not to vote for a specific person. They raised their right arm to pledge and some of them had a stiff arm. To pledge is chilling no matter what. Then you irrelevantly whimper about “commies” to deflect. I think I am done. You are a zealot and logic doesn’t register. Bye. 1 Link to comment
Calm Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) “More like "Get Out the Vote" pledge.“ People can watch the video themselves to judge. (“Who likes me in this room?”) ”solemnly swear that I..will vote...for Donald J Trump for president” (the ellipses are about no condition stopping them and on or before Election Day) It’s gone completely political anyway (my bad for contributing) and I think the questions from the OP have been answered, so I am dropping the conversation myself. Edited September 16, 2019 by Calm 1 Link to comment
blarsen Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 On 9/10/2019 at 3:54 PM, mfbukowski said: Just for the record for people who don't know me- that post was pure sarcasm. But it would appeal I think to some on the left who might take it seriously. Chairman Mao would have been one of them. I know because I used to be one too during my chats with my prof Angela Davis. We talked a lot about the importance of "Education" of the bourgeoisie I got better. Angela Davis! My, my. First hand experience, yet. I saw an interview she gave just 1, 2, maybe 3 years ago. Still in harness. Other than that, my acquaintance with her was through newspaper headlines/articles in the Bay Area. Link to comment
blarsen Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 45 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Get out the vote pledge is a pledge to vote, not to vote for a specific person. They raised their right arm to pledge and some of them had a stiff arm. To pledge is chilling no matter what. Then you irrelevantly whimper about “commies” to deflect. I think I am done. You are a zealot and logic doesn’t register. Bye. It's comforting to know, Nehor, that you 'get the chills' every time the Pledge Allegiance is recited. 😉 2 Link to comment
mfbukowski Posted September 16, 2019 Share Posted September 16, 2019 (edited) 22 minutes ago, blarsen said: Angela Davis! My, my. First hand experience, yet. I saw an interview she gave just 1, 2, maybe 3 years ago. Still in harness. Other than that, my acquaintance with her was through newspaper headlines/articles in the Bay Area. Yep, UCLA philosophy department 1969. She was actually the most gentle kind and accessible Professor I had there. I want to the People's Park little party there in Berkeley and saw the snipers on the roof from the Sheriff's Department. There was tons of fun. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Park_(Berkeley)#May_15,_1969:_"Bloody_Thursday" That was an amazing philosophy Department in those years. Lots of first-rate people there. Edited September 16, 2019 by mfbukowski Link to comment
The Nehor Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 4 hours ago, blarsen said: It's comforting to know, Nehor, that you 'get the chills' every time the Pledge Allegiance is recited. 😉 That you equate pledging allegiance to one’s country as equivalent to pledging support for a serial adulterer and habitual liar is also chilling. If the pledge of allegiance was to a person you bet I would be upset. Even in most of the surviving monarchies the monarch’s appeal to loyalty is more about the institution then the person. Trump and the United States hold much different positions on my allegiance scale. One is “grateful to God for this blessing in my life, willing to die for” and the other is “what the hell do others see in this, will consider not running it over in the street if it runs in front of my car while I am in a hurry”. I will leave guessing which is which as an exercise for the reader. 3 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 5 hours ago, Calm said: “More like "Get Out the Vote" pledge.“ People can watch the video themselves to judge. (“Who likes me in this room?”) ”solemnly swear that I..will vote...for Donald J Trump for president” (the ellipses are about no condition stopping them and on or before Election Day) It’s gone completely political anyway (my bad for contributing) and I think the questions from the OP have been answered, so I am dropping the conversation myself. This. Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 3 hours ago, The Nehor said: That you equate pledging allegiance to one’s country as equivalent to pledging support for a serial adulterer and habitual liar is also chilling. If the pledge of allegiance was to a person you bet I would be upset. Even in most of the surviving monarchies the monarch’s appeal to loyalty is more about the institution then the person. Trump and the United States hold much different positions on my allegiance scale. One is “grateful to God for this blessing in my life, willing to die for” and the other is “what the hell do others see in this, will consider not running it over in the street if it runs in front of my car while I am in a hurry”. I will leave guessing which is which as an exercise for the reader. Wait, what’s happening here? You’re no longer insinuating that attendees at Trump rallies do Hitler salutes? What happened to <that> preposterous claim? Now it’s a matter of you’re being scandalized because (gasp! horror of horrors!) he asks his supporters to promise they will go vote on Election Day? This is getting nuttier by the minute. Now, it appears that you want to join Calm in “dropping the conversation.” I think that’s a prudent choice. 2 Link to comment
Scott Lloyd Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 (edited) 12 hours ago, Calm said: “More like "Get Out the Vote" pledge.“ People can watch the video themselves to judge. (“Who likes me in this room?”) ”solemnly swear that I..will vote...for Donald J Trump for president” (the ellipses are about no condition stopping them and on or before Election Day) It’s gone completely political anyway (my bad for contributing) and I think the questions from the OP have been answered, so I am dropping the conversation myself. A get-out-the-vote pledge is precisely what it is. It’s clear Trump is having some fun here with his core base, It’s something of a light moment — you can tell from the laughter. No stern, solemn “loyalty oath” here. These are his people; he already has their support; he knows it and they know it. He’s engaging in some banter (“Who likes me in this room?”). Now, he just needs their support to translate into results on Election Day. He needs them to not let conditions such as a case of the sniffles or inclement weather (“hurricanes or whatever”) keep them from voting. (You engaged in a rather shrewd use of ellipses there; well played.) Ever the consummate politician, he is rallying his base. That is, in fact, what this event is called, a “rally.” We have a long tradition of vigorous electioneering in this country, going back to our earliest history. Trump does it very well, better than most. And now, selective quotation notwithstanding, to cast it as something sinister or Hitler-like, well, it transcends the confines of common sense. Edited September 17, 2019 by Scott Lloyd 4 Link to comment
smac97 Posted September 17, 2019 Author Share Posted September 17, 2019 Okay, folks. Let's ditch the politics and get back to the topic, please. Thanks, -Smac 1 Link to comment
longview Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 2 hours ago, smac97 said: Okay, folks. Let's ditch the politics and get back to the topic, please. Thanks, -Smac Duly noted. I want to compliment you and Scott Lloyd for the masterful question/answer series with Nehor. It is astonishing to see how he has such a hard time with being able to disavow completely Antifa and their actions. 2 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 9 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: Wait, what’s happening here? You’re no longer insinuating that attendees at Trump rallies do Hitler salutes? What happened to <that> preposterous claim? Now it’s a matter of you’re being scandalized because (gasp! horror of horrors!) he asks his supporters to promise they will go vote on Election Day? This is getting nuttier by the minute. Now, it appears that you want to join Calm in “dropping the conversation.” I think that’s a prudent choice. No, I am still insinuating that. It is hard to counter a “no, it is not like a Nazi salute” defense beyond “yes it is”. We can do that if you want but it seems kind of boring. Not promise to vote. Pledge to vote for him. In some of these pledges there were creepy insinuations about what will happen if you break the pledge. It is getting nuttier by the minute because you keep getting the facts wrong. Are you seriously a journalist? Link to comment
The Nehor Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 2 hours ago, smac97 said: Okay, folks. Let's ditch the politics and get back to the topic, please. Thanks, -Smac Irony. 12 minutes ago, longview said: Duly noted. I want to compliment you and Scott Lloyd for the masterful question/answer series with Nehor. It is astonishing to see how he has such a hard time with being able to disavow completely Antifa and their actions. I am sorry I do not consider your personal boogeymen as scary as you do. Do you want me to check under your bed for monsters before you go to sleep? Link to comment
The Nehor Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 7 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: A get-out-the-vote pledge is precisely what it is. It’s clear Trump is having some fun here with his core base, It’s something of a light moment — you can tell from the laughter. No stern, solemn “loyalty oath” here. These are his people; he already has their support; he knows it and they know it. He’s engaging in some banter (“Who likes me in this room?”). Now, he just needs their support to translate into results on Election Day. He needs them to not let conditions such as a case of the sniffles or inclement weather (“hurricanes or whatever”) keep them from voting. (You engaged in a rather shrewd use of ellipses there; well played.) Ever the consummate politician, he is rallying his base. That is, in fact, what this event is called, a “rally.” We have a long tradition of vigorous electioneering in this country, going back to our earliest history. Trump does it very well, better than most. And now, selective quotation notwithstanding, to cast it as something sinister or Hitler-like, well, it transcends the confines of common sense. Oh, the fun we have swearing allegiance to our God-Emperor. As long as we can laugh about it. Link to comment
blarsen Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 13 hours ago, The Nehor said: That you equate pledging allegiance to one’s country as equivalent to pledging support for a serial adulterer and habitual liar is also chilling. If the pledge of allegiance was to a person you bet I would be upset. Even in most of the surviving monarchies the monarch’s appeal to loyalty is more about the institution then the person. Trump and the United States hold much different positions on my allegiance scale. One is “grateful to God for this blessing in my life, willing to die for” and the other is “what the hell do others see in this, will consider not running it over in the street if it runs in front of my car while I am in a hurry”. I will leave guessing which is which as an exercise for the reader. Chill, Nehor. 'twas a joke. Though I would like you to respond to my latest post in reply to yours on the 'It's "Let's roll" day' thread, which was moved to the Social Hall forum for some odd reason . . . but of course, only if you care to . . . Link to comment
blarsen Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 8 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: A get-out-the-vote pledge is precisely what it is. It’s clear Trump is having some fun here with his core base, It’s something of a light moment — you can tell from the laughter. No stern, solemn “loyalty oath” here. These are his people; he already has their support; he knows it and they know it. He’s engaging in some banter (“Who likes me in this room?”). Now, he just needs their support to translate into results on Election Day. He needs them to not let conditions such as a case of the sniffles or inclement weather (“hurricanes or whatever”) keep them from voting. (You engaged in a rather shrewd use of ellipses there; well played.) Ever the consummate politician, he is rallying his base. That is, in fact, what this event is called, a “rally.” We have a long tradition of vigorous electioneering in this country, going back to our earliest history. Trump does it very well, better than most. And now, selective quotation notwithstanding, to cast it as something sinister or Hitler-like, well, it transcends the confines of common sense. Perfect response. A strange lack of humor, or recognition of same, seems to be decidedly lacking in those who are wont to engage in TDS. Scott Adams, creator of Dilbert, seems to get it. Why not others? 1 Link to comment
The Nehor Posted September 17, 2019 Share Posted September 17, 2019 1 minute ago, blarsen said: Perfect response. A strange lack of humor, or recognition of same, seems to be decidedly lacking in those who are wont to engage in TDS. Scott Adams, creator of Dilbert, seems to get it. Why not others? Yes, I am widely known for my humorless nature. 2 Link to comment
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