Jump to content
Duncan

Temple symbolism talk

Recommended Posts

15 hours ago, ksfisher said:

The first place to start looking is at your assumptions.  

How so?

Share this post


Link to post
17 hours ago, Gervin said:

Well, none have been found and there is no consensus as to where to begin a search.   The criteria for a location is that it must support a people who, for 1,000 years, maintained a spoken and written language of Afroasiatic origins.  That maintenance plan would also include those Hebrew elements associated with the Temple.  Where do you suggest looking?

 

Did they still speak Hebrew? I doubt it except maybe as a religious language. Some of the religious and possibly political elite had to be able to read their version of Hebrew and their version of Egyptian but beyond that?

Share this post


Link to post
On 9/12/2019 at 1:23 PM, The Nehor said:

Did they still speak Hebrew? I doubt it except maybe as a religious language. Some of the religious and possibly political elite had to be able to read their version of Hebrew and their version of Egyptian but beyond that?

"Some of the religious?" The Torah was read weekly.  If not written in Hebrew, then what?  If not heard in Hebrew, then what?  

If the Book of Mormon peoples spoke a Proto-Mayan language then they would have been familiar with the writings and symbology of same.  They could have written the Book of Mormon on stone using glyphs and not had to worry about a lack of space, or hefting the writings to some other part of the world to bury.  They could have been buried in situ, so that about 19th centuries later any reputable Mayan scholar could do all the translation.  

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, Gervin said:

"Some of the religious?" The Torah was read weekly.  If not written in Hebrew, then what?  If not heard in Hebrew, then what?  

If the Book of Mormon peoples spoke a Proto-Mayan language then they would have been familiar with the writings and symbology of same.  They could have written the Book of Mormon on stone using glyphs and not had to worry about a lack of space, or hefting the writings to some other part of the world to bury.  They could have been buried in situ, so that about 19th centuries later any reputable Mayan scholar could do all the translation.  

If not written or heard in Hebrew then written or heard in the local language? Is that supposed to be a hard question?

I doubt it was God's plan for a random Mayan scholar to translate it.

Share this post


Link to post
On 9/10/2019 at 10:50 AM, 10THAmendment said:

Do you have any sources that show that? In my research I haven’t ever come across any substantial similarities between the Freemason ceremony and any other ritual in history. 

Really?  There are plenty of elements from the endowment that are labeled "masonic" that are found in earlier records, not the least of which is Genesis.

I am not opposed to the notion that Joseph borrowed from Masonry, but even the Masons aren't entirely sure where their rites came from.  Historians can readily determine the history of Freemasonry, but the origin of the rites is a mystery.

No reason the endowment and freemasonry can't have a common ancestor.

Share this post


Link to post
13 hours ago, The Nehor said:

If not written or heard in Hebrew then written or heard in the local language? Is that supposed to be a hard question?

I think the hard question (to answer) was my first -  "why no inscriptions, symbology, or edificial evidence of a Jewish-believing people?"

Saying their language was "local," doesn't really tell us much.  "Local" languages in MesoAmerica are fairly well documented (not sure if you saw - Proto-Mayan language )  Do you put the Book of Mormon people into one of these languages?  (on top of the Hebrew and Egyptian that were retained)

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Gervin said:

I think the hard question (to answer) was my first -  "why no inscriptions, symbology, or edificial evidence of a Jewish-believing people?"

Saying their language was "local," doesn't really tell us much.  "Local" languages in MesoAmerica are fairly well documented (not sure if you saw - Proto-Mayan language )  Do you put the Book of Mormon people into one of these languages?  (on top of the Hebrew and Egyptian that were retained)

I have guessed proto-Mayan in the past but I do not play in that sandbox much any more. I doubt Hebrew was the common tongue of either the Nephites or the Lamanites.

Share this post


Link to post
On 9/13/2019 at 11:41 PM, JLHPROF said:

Really?  There are plenty of elements from the endowment that are labeled "masonic" that are found in earlier records, not the least of which is Genesis.

I am not opposed to the notion that Joseph borrowed from Masonry, but even the Masons aren't entirely sure where their rites came from.  Historians can readily determine the history of Freemasonry, but the origin of the rites is a mystery.

No reason the endowment and freemasonry can't have a common ancestor.

It becomes problematic when the endowment has gone through changes to make it less Masonic. That shows that Freemasonry is the entire fundamental base for the endowment which was already evident to begin with. 

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, 10THAmendment said:

It becomes problematic when the endowment has gone through changes to make it less Masonic. That shows that Freemasonry is the entire fundamental base for the endowment which was already evident to begin with. 

Only if you consider those changes valid.  Personally I think eternal elements have been removed because of the feelings you describe.  Same with the garments.

Edited by JLHPROF

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Only if you consider those changes valid.  Personally I think eternal elements have been removed because of the feelings you describe.  Same with the garments.

Same. Important parts that have been a part of ritual ceremonies and sacrifices since Genesis. The modern age is a little sensitive to supposedly “darker” elements of the endowment that had their sources in ancient practices and the scriptures. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
20 hours ago, 10THAmendment said:

It becomes problematic when the endowment has gone through changes to make it less Masonic. That shows that Freemasonry is the entire fundamental base for the endowment which was already evident to begin with. 

The PRESENTATION of the endowment uses Masonic symbols as a language. It could be in another symbolic language, but Joseph used the symbols he was most familiar with

You are seeing it too literally, imo. Look to the meanings behind the symbols.

Masonry does not come close to promising complete theosis.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   1 member

×
×
  • Create New...