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Duncan

Temple symbolism talk

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Usually it is female speakers at Relief Society conferences unless it is a Priesthood leader. Wait.....it is not Rowe is it?

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6 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Actually most temple symbols, including those of the Gothic cathedrals, have been around a lot longer than Freemasonry.  Indeed, every mass (eucharist) said in a Roman Catholic or Anglican church is a deliberate temple sacrifice, taken directly from the Jewish temple in Jerusalem.  And that is only the most obvious temple symbol.  The entire Roman Catholic liturgy is a Jewish liturgy, straight from the synagogue.

There are certainly parallels and similarities in the imageries and patterns of worship, as the schoolmaster was also under the Master.

https://www.marquette.edu/maqom/roots.html

 

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25 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Who is this guy?  Perhaps he is a well-known figure.

it's a lady, just in the Stake

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11 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Usually it is female speakers at Relief Society conferences unless it is a Priesthood leader. Wait.....it is not Rowe is it?

no, not her! although this lady channels Sheri Dew, although i'd much rather hear her then this lady

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19 minutes ago, Duncan said:

no, not her! although this lady channels Sheri Dew, although i'd much rather hear her then this lady

With your stake anything is possible.

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11 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

With your stake anything is possible.

that's true, with our luck this conference will get TV's Kato Kaelin to appear

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54 minutes ago, CV75 said:

There are certainly parallels and similarities in the imageries and patterns of worship, as the schoolmaster was also under the Master.

https://www.marquette.edu/maqom/roots.html ................................

Yes, Dr Margaret Barker.  One of the best.  I have heard her lecture in Utah on several occasions.

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4 hours ago, 2BizE said:

What symbols are unique to Mormonism?  Most temple symbols are from Freemasonry or from other sources.

I'm curious as to why the people of the Book of Mormon - unlike any religious culture I'm aware of - left no record of symbols or symbology.  Yet, Egyptian is written symbolically, as are elements of Hebrew.  If the Book of Mormon peoples were in Mesoamerica, then there was plenty of rock on which to inscribe something ... anything.  Even a crude menorah - http://holylandphotos.org/browse.asp?s=1,3,7,23,133&img=TWCSPN03

 

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4 hours ago, Ahab said:

If we told you and the rest of the world about those things they might start using them for their own purposes, other than how we use them, which is why we try to keep them set apart (keep them holy).  

It’s kind of ironic that this is what Joseph Smith did to the Freemasons. 

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7 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Usually it is female speakers at Relief Society conferences unless it is a Priesthood leader. Wait.....it is not Rowe is it?

I've found it to be about 60/40. That might mean usually for some people.

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12 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I think this would weaken the temple experience by giving an official explanation to something that should come directly by revelation.

What would make it an official explanation if it does not come from an authorized Church spokesman?

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I do not understand how one can speak of temple symbolism in a public forum without revealing things which should not be revealed unless the terms were so vague as to be worthless.

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12 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I do not understand how one can speak of temple symbolism in a public forum without revealing things which should not be revealed unless the terms were so vague as to be worthless.

this is what I am thinking as well

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Just now, Duncan said:

this is what I am thinking as well

Plenty of Books have been written on the subject thy read public and written by worthy members of the church. There is plenty that can be shared, discussed, and talked about with revealing things that ought not be said frivolously. 

For example the Book most people are handed for Temple Prep is decently descriptive as to temple symbolism, and it was written by an apostle! There are others as well that dive into deeper meanings without saying anything to sacred. We only covenant not to reveal a few things, all else can be spoken of in the appropriate setting and Spirit.

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I personally feel like the temple would have more meaning to many members if there were more open discussion of its symbolism. I think a better balance between personal revelation, open discussion, and avoiding sacred content could be established. Like Robert and Hugh, I feel like there is plenty of room to discuss symbolism and not only from ancient viewpoints. Just understanding some of the Masonic meanings for parallel elements can help provide some context and deeper understanding.

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12 hours ago, Duncan said:

it's what's on the inside, not the buildings themselves and I would trust anything Prof. Cowan and the late Matthew B. Brown say on the subject

Yes, those are excellent books. Nibley talks about inside things, but I think wisdom would be to approach them publicly with great reverence and discretion. I have found that much understanding is deeply personal. 

Edited by Bernard Gui
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11 hours ago, Rain said:

 

I've found it to be about 60/40. That might mean usually for some people.

Really? Maybe it is a regional thing? I have only heard of one male speaker in the three Relief Society conferences I know of and that was a Seventy (and his wife) who grew up in the area. Maybe my sample size is too small. I have admittedly never gone to one nor have they asked me to speak at one. :( 

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11 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

What would make it an official explanation if it does not come from an authorized Church spokesman?

True, I probably should not have used the term official there. In my experience when someone explains a symbol often people stop looking for more. I have three overall paradigms (for lack of a better word) through which I interpret the presentation of the endowment and I am sure there are many more. The searching is part of the joy of temple worship. It is a well designed format designed to allow revelation to flow, much like the scriptures only more so. It is also possible to lose insights in the scriptures if you are of a scholarly bent and only allow interpretations that mesh with the history and culture of the time or if someone tells you what a scripture means and you assume it cannot lead you to anything else.

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15 hours ago, 10THAmendment said:

It’s kind of ironic that this is what Joseph Smith did to the Freemasons. 

If you'll look further back in history you'll see that the Freemasons were not the first to use the symbols we use today.  My understanding is that Joseph simply restored the intended purpose of those symbols as they were used anciently, long before the Freemasons.

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49 minutes ago, Ahab said:

If you'll look further back in history you'll see that the Freemasons were not the first to use the symbols we use today.  My understanding is that Joseph simply restored the intended purpose of those symbols as they were used anciently, long before the Freemasons.

Do you have any sources that show that? In my research I haven’t ever come across any substantial similarities between the Freemason ceremony and any other ritual in history. 

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5 minutes ago, 10THAmendment said:

Do you have any sources that show that? In my research I haven’t ever come across any substantial similarities between the Freemason ceremony and any other ritual in history. 

I recommend you start with what Hugh Nibley said in this, asking the Holy Spirit to guide you and help you to know the truth when you see it:

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=hugh+nibley+temple+and+cosmos&gclid=CjwKCAjwk93rBRBLEiwAcMapUU0Z7_V5NrK21bd83VBsHwzHMXLo0zLFjcCGjfrZSL1YiNE3ftuc1xoCbqMQAvD_BwE&hvadid=241627344237&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9032925&hvnetw=g&hvpos=1t1&hvqmt=e&hvrand=15336657004975469241&hvtargid=aud-649564993678%3Akwd-137098923171&hydadcr=22569_10355200&tag=googhydr-20&ref=pd_sl_4amrqgbaka_e

After reading Hugh's words I recommend going further in depth to read the sources he used.

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4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Really? Maybe it is a regional thing? I have only heard of one male speaker in the three Relief Society conferences I know of and that was a Seventy (and his wife) who grew up in the area. Maybe my sample size is too small. I have admittedly never gone to one nor have they asked me to speak at one. :( 

I would guess it is a stake thing. My last stake had more women than this one or the one before my last. Sometimes it is stake leaders. Sometimes more well known speakers. The only one I remember by name right now is Richard Paul Evans.

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20 hours ago, Gervin said:

I'm curious as to why the people of the Book of Mormon - unlike any religious culture I'm aware of - left no record of symbols or symbology.  Yet, Egyptian is written symbolically, as are elements of Hebrew.  If the Book of Mormon peoples were in Mesoamerica, then there was plenty of rock on which to inscribe something ... anything.  Even a crude menorah - http://holylandphotos.org/browse.asp?s=1,3,7,23,133&img=TWCSPN03

 

How do you know they didn't?

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On 9/10/2019 at 4:22 PM, ksfisher said:

How do you know they didn't?

Well, none have been found and there is no consensus as to where to begin a search.   The criteria for a location is that it must support a people who, for 1,000 years, maintained a spoken and written language of Afroasiatic origins.  That maintenance plan would also include those Hebrew elements associated with the Temple.  Where do you suggest looking?

 

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2 hours ago, Gervin said:

Well, none have been found and there is no consensus as to where to begin a search.   The criteria for a location is that it must support a people who, for 1,000 years, maintained a spoken and written language of Afroasiatic origins.  That maintenance plan would also include those Hebrew elements associated with the Temple.  Where do you suggest looking?

 

The first place to start looking is at your assumptions.  

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