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Becoming Gods?

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14 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

I actually ascribe to the concept that I to will eventually, if I desire to further my exaltation, have to make a sacrifice like Christ’s. Call it blasphemy or whatever, but I believe it’s progression. I don’t even know or understand it it all..but that’s what makes sense to me and I’m trusting in it until I can be taught otherwise.

So in this context I would know I’d sacrifice, I would have made the ultimate sacrifice and thus also possess the keys to death and hell. My son would then be able to become in the express image of His father because he would make a sacrifice like He did. Just as my Savior did before me. It’s complicated and I don’t have all the pieces, so I honestly couldn’t just sit down and try to explain it. I just feel and believe that those principles are true.

Although I disagree I can respect this and think I understand this line of thinking. For me, whatever is possible it will be because of Christ. His grace. So to me it’s really just about growing in that genuine covenant relationship thru Him, that genuine Love. That is the charge. And also to me it makes sense that exaltation is the expression of that divine unity of love that abides in the Godhead and then also in us as we enter into that loving relationship. We are to be as God is now, out in the world, after receiving him and being born again. I think this is closer to what the scripture verses mean re: being sons of God, joint-heirs of Christ, the Church of the firstborn, etc. By entering into relationship he adopts us as His and now dwells in us and makes us new creatures. We very directly figuratively put him upon us in the temple. It is everywhere.

I just hope this esoteric speculation never supersedes the supernal Christ and his preeminent and absolute role in our salvation AND exaltation...and I think there is a danger here, when we get beyond seeking oneness with the Godhead for the sake of pure Love. But please, I’m interested to hear how and if you disagree.

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1 hour ago, Articustate said:

Although I disagree I can respect this and think I understand this line of thinking. For me, whatever is possible it will be because of Christ. His grace. So to me it’s really just about growing in that genuine covenant relationship thru Him, that genuine Love. That is the charge. And also to me it makes sense that exaltation is the expression of that divine unity of love that abides in the Godhead and then also in us as we enter into that loving relationship. We are to be as God is now, out in the world, after receiving him and being born again. I think this is closer to what the scripture verses mean re: being sons of God, joint-heirs of Christ, the Church of the firstborn, etc. By entering into relationship he adopts us as His and now dwells in us and makes us new creatures. We very directly figuratively put him upon us in the temple. It is everywhere.

I just hope this esoteric speculation never supersedes the supernal Christ and his preeminent and absolute role in our salvation AND exaltation...and I think there is a danger here, when we get beyond seeking oneness with the Godhead for the sake of pure Love. But please, I’m interested to hear how and if you disagree.

I think the main difference is that we interpret certain verses (and sermons by Joseph Smith) differently. I take them literally (but I like your interpretation a lot!!) to mean that I will be God, through the power given to me by Christ, and eventually get to (if I’d like) to walk in His shoes.

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8 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

I think the main difference is that we interpret certain verses (and sermons by Joseph Smith) differently. I take them literally (but I like your interpretation a lot!!) to mean that I will be God, through the power given to me by Christ, and eventually get to (if I’d like) to walk in His shoes.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that whatever exaltation looks like, it is at least this Oneness -- if not primarily and necessarily so. And to the extent we achieve it is to the extent we receive His Light to transform us, and only this because we have died to the self. And it will be in the House of Israel. His Kingdom. Not yours. Ever. His (the Father's) Plan. Not yours. Ever. You do not supplant Christ. Ever. 

You do not save yourself. You do not exalt yourself. It is not about you. It is about Jesus. It is about dying to the self and selfishness so that he can take root.  

And it is not just about Jesus because he lets you fly off to a part of the universe God hasn’t quite gotten to yet and organize it (like the nebula someone earlier on the thread was lusting over). 

God is God. He does not pray/glorify some deity one rung ahead of him, who was in his previous life an accountant...who worships/glorifies the guy ahead of him who happened to be a mailman.   

I find this sort of God-lust, to any extent it exists -- repugnant and fundamentally unChristian. The hubris to think the universe exists so you can replace God is exactly the sort of thinking that other Christians use to claim we are not. I think sometimes our further light and knowledge puts us in danger of going beyond the mark -- the mark being, quite obviously, Jesus the Christ. Perhaps we should focus on Him and becoming like Him in character and not what we think we'll have if we do enough stuff. 

And to any extent this sort of future of Godhood -- capital G --  is real, those thinking it's about them and focused on attaining it will likely be sorely disappointed in how God sees things.

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10 hours ago, Articustate said:

Although I disagree I can respect this and think I understand this line of thinking. For me, whatever is possible it will be because of Christ. His grace. So to me it’s really just about growing in that genuine covenant relationship thru Him, that genuine Love. That is the charge. And also to me it makes sense that exaltation is the expression of that divine unity of love that abides in the Godhead and then also in us as we enter into that loving relationship. We are to be as God is now, out in the world, after receiving him and being born again. I think this is closer to what the scripture verses mean re: being sons of God, joint-heirs of Christ, the Church of the firstborn, etc. By entering into relationship he adopts us as His and now dwells in us and makes us new creatures. We very directly figuratively put him upon us in the temple. It is everywhere.

I just hope this esoteric speculation never supersedes the supernal Christ and his preeminent and absolute role in our salvation AND exaltation...and I think there is a danger here, when we get beyond seeking oneness with the Godhead for the sake of pure Love. But please, I’m interested to hear how and if you disagree.

I’ve often used the phrase “joining Him in His work” to characterize how I understand exaltation.  I certainly have never believed we are to replace or supersede Him.

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On 9/7/2019 at 9:19 PM, SettingDogStar said:

To each his own (and i think I understand the reason for his choice of words) but to me it’s better to be burned telling the whole truth then to be caught telling a half-truth or lie. Not to say he did that, but he was more ambiguous then I think was needed. 

Absolutely no disrespect intended. Please use the words then and than appropriately. The misuse is like letting @Scott Lloyd squirt lemon juice in my eyes.

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On 9/8/2019 at 1:19 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

It looks easy because I have been working on this stuff for decades.  A library indeed.

I hate (not really) you.

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1 hour ago, let’s roll said:

I’ve often used the phrase “joining Him in His work” to characterize how I understand exaltation.  I certainly have never believed we are to replace or supersede Him.

I like that a lot! 

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1 hour ago, Articustate said:

God is God. He does not pray/glorify some deity one rung ahead of him, who was in his previous life an accountant...who worships/glorifies the guy ahead of him who happened to be a mailman.

I completely disagree.  100%.

It is the most glorious revelation ever given, to know God and to know he was once a mortal man on an earth and that we have the potential to become as he is.

That is in the end what Mormonism has that all other Christian religions don't.  Aside from priesthood authority and the ordinances, it is the single most important doctrine to come out of the restoration.

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7 hours ago, Articustate said:

I guess what I'm trying to say is that whatever exaltation looks like, it is at least this Oneness -- if not primarily and necessarily so. And to the extent we achieve it is to the extent we receive His Light to transform us, and only this because we have died to the self. And it will be in the House of Israel. His Kingdom. Not yours. Ever. His (the Father's) Plan. Not yours. Ever. You do not supplant Christ. Ever. 

You do not save yourself. You do not exalt yourself. It is not about you. It is about Jesus. It is about dying to the self and selfishness so that he can take root.  

And it is not just about Jesus because he lets you fly off to a part of the universe God hasn’t quite gotten to yet and organize it (like the nebula someone earlier on the thread was lusting over). 

God is God. He does not pray/glorify some deity one rung ahead of him, who was in his previous life an accountant...who worships/glorifies the guy ahead of him who happened to be a mailman.   

I find this sort of God-lust, to any extent it exists -- repugnant and fundamentally unChristian. The hubris to think the universe exists so you can replace God is exactly the sort of thinking that other Christians use to claim we are not. I think sometimes our further light and knowledge puts us in danger of going beyond the mark -- the mark being, quite obviously, Jesus the Christ. Perhaps we should focus on Him and becoming like Him in character and not what we think we'll have if we do enough stuff. 

And to any extent this sort of future of Godhood -- capital G --  is real, those thinking it's about them and focused on attaining it will likely be sorely disappointed in how God sees things.

It is most assuredly about Jesus! I can’t do any of the work of my own accord. His is the only way and power whereby I can come into a fullness of the Father in the next life. I also don’t believe anyone will replace God or stand in His role as it is now. However, there will be those who become like Him. They will perform works similar to His, have children, and perform the work of salvation among them in some form or another (however that works out). 

I also don’t believe God worships or gains glory from another being or Savior. I’m believe (but don’t know) that God has a father like we do, but God has become independent in His glory, power, and abilities. He doesn’t need another being to grant Him these things because He is GOD. But there are others like Him. It’s not a hierarchy necessarily (again, I don’t know) but it is a family.

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6 hours ago, Valentinus said:

Absolutely no disrespect intended. Please use the words then and than appropriately. The misuse is like letting @Scott Lloyd squirt lemon juice in my eyes.

My bad, I’m on my phone at work most of the time and I’m not paying attention haha

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4 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

My bad, I’m on my phone at work most of the time and I’m not paying attention haha

No worries.

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21 hours ago, Articustate said:

Although I disagree I can respect this and think I understand this line of thinking. For me, whatever is possible it will be because of Christ. His grace. So to me it’s really just about growing in that genuine covenant relationship thru Him, that genuine Love. That is the charge. And also to me it makes sense that exaltation is the expression of that divine unity of love that abides in the Godhead and then also in us as we enter into that loving relationship. We are to be as God is now, out in the world, after receiving him and being born again. I think this is closer to what the scripture verses mean re: being sons of God, joint-heirs of Christ, the Church of the firstborn, etc. By entering into relationship he adopts us as His and now dwells in us and makes us new creatures. We very directly figuratively put him upon us in the temple. It is everywhere.

I just hope this esoteric speculation never supersedes the supernal Christ and his preeminent and absolute role in our salvation AND exaltation...and I think there is a danger here, when we get beyond seeking oneness with the Godhead for the sake of pure Love. But please, I’m interested to hear how and if you disagree.

Doctrine and Covenants 88:60-61

60 Every man in his own aorder, until his hour was finished, even according as his lord had commanded him, that his lord might be glorified in him, and he in his lord, that they all might be glorified.

John 16:

13 Howbeit when he, the aSpirit of truth, is come, he will bguide you into all ctruth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will dshew you things to come.

14 He shall aglorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15 All athings that the bFather hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

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