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smac97

"We're threatened with the prospect of a Mormon mayor." - Rocky Anderson

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This general sentiment is one reason it chapped my *** to see the church sell all the property downtown to the city for $1.00. It’s a city that, by and large, resents the church and any influence, without any recognition of what it has been able to bring to the community, despite its perceived flaws.

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On 9/5/2019 at 10:04 PM, Jake Starkey said:

We are a secular nation, and this religion bashing is not worthy of our heritage.

No, we are a religious polyglot nation and this religion bashing is typical of our heritage though it should not be.

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2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Consider the site it was on.  That tells the tale.  Not exactly the Encyclopedia Brittanica.

It is using the info from a more rigorous group iirc though. The map itself is not theirs. 

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1 hour ago, Judd said:

This general sentiment is one reason it chapped my *** to see the church sell all the property downtown to the city for $1.00. It’s a city that, by and large, resents the church and any influence, without any recognition of what it has been able to bring to the community, despite its perceived flaws.

I lived in Salt Lake in the early eighties for one year and I could see the conflict bubbling then.  The divisions were clear as a bell.   It was one side or the other- very black and white.   I didn't want to be there when the real ugliness started.   It's getting uglier by the day now.

It was that dang train bringing in all them gentiles from the East.

Oh wait- you thought I was talkin about the NINETEEN EIGHTIES, right?  ;)

Well same thing then anyway.  ;)

 

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58 minutes ago, Calm said:

It is using the info from a more rigorous group iirc though. The map itself is not theirs. 

Agreed- so their conclusions are clearly suspect then anyway.  A website named "Rantt"?  Publishing something wrong on the internet?

What a surprise!!  ;)

 

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We are a secular and religious nation, which is why we are often divided in our national mind.

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2 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Agreed- so their conclusions are clearly suspect then anyway.  A website named "Rantt"?  Publishing something wrong on the internet?

What a surprise!!  ;)

 

Utah being in the top ten was the conclusion of the other group.  I am assuming this is because of the level of impact.  It didn't take a lot of gerrymanding work to set it up so all Republican congressmen.  Dems would have had 1 seat out of four, where now they have 0, or 25%.  The small number involved increases the impact of each change in their view I am guessing.

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On 9/5/2019 at 8:04 PM, Jake Starkey said:

We are a secular nation, and this religion bashing is not worthy of our heritage.

To echo Nehor, "In God we Trust" and "inalienable rights" of individuals etc can make us look like a Christian and by majority, we are.   But yes "secular" used to mean freedom of religion and there are debates about that still.

So it depends on what you mean by "secular"

Jacques Berlinerblau (I love that name- "Blue Berliner") I think has nailed it with the kind of "secularism" I could go for.

"How to Be Secular" for him means "How to Have Religious Freedom" and understand secular religions- like the statement "We are a secular nation" which cannot be proved or disproven and is itself therefore a "religious" position.

But I respect your faith.  ;)

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006R8PH1G/ref=dp-kindle-redirect?_encoding=UTF8&btkr=1

Quote

Founding father Thomas Jefferson believed that “religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God,” but these days many people seem to have forgotten this ideal. Conservatives claim America is a “Christian nation” and urge that laws be structured around religious convictions. Hardcore atheists, meanwhile, seek to undermine and attack religion at all levels. Surely there must be a middle ground.
 
In How to Be Secular, Jacques Berlinerblau issues a call to the moderates—those who are tired of the belligerence on the fringes—that we return to America’s long tradition of secularism, which seeks to protect both freedom from and for religion. He looks at the roots of secularism and examines how it should be bolstered and strengthened so that Americans of all stripes can live together peacefully.
 
“Jacques Berlinerblau mounts a careful, judicious, and compelling argument that America needs more secularists. . . . The author’s argument merits a wide hearing and will change the way we think and talk about religious freedom.” —Randall Balmer, author of Thy Kingdom Come: How the Religious Right Distorts FaithandThreatens America

Great book.  Read it and "secular" will never mean the same thing for you.

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28 minutes ago, Calm said:

Utah being in the top ten was the conclusion of the other group.  I am assuming this is because of the level of impact.  It didn't take a lot of gerrymanding work to set it up so all Republican congressmen.  Dems would have had 1 seat out of four, where now they have 0, or 25%.  The small number involved increases the impact of each change in their view I am guessing.

Well yes of course!   Theoretically if you had a state with no Republicans at all, like California  gerrymandering would become irrelevant.

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36 minutes ago, Jake Starkey said:

We are a secular and religious nation, which is why we are often divided in our national mind.

And of course the national man is an enemy to God.

Oh wait.  That's different.  Nevermind.

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I like what President Dallin H. Oaks is reported to have said once: I see some truth in conservatism, some truth in liberalism, but no salvation in any of them. ;)

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50 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Well yes of course!   Theoretically if you had a state with no Republicans at all, like California  gerrymandering would become irrelevant.

Or Seattle/King County. 

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5 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Must have been a visionary moment, where past present and future become one.  ;)

 

Or maybe she was doing something stronger than cannabis. 

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2 hours ago, Jake Starkey said:

We are a secular and religious nation, which is why we are often divided in our national mind.

What is meant by the phrase “secular nation”? Others may feel free to weigh in on this too. I’ll give my view after I see what others post. 

Edited to add:  Never mind. Let’s not derail the thread. I’ll start a separate thread. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd

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2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Or maybe she was doing something stronger than cannabis. 

Oh no. A distinguished politician like her would NEVER break the laws she has vowed to protect and defend!

Why that would be hypocrisy and of course her constituents would never accept such  a thing! 

Why that would be dishonorable.!

Edited by mfbukowski
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