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"Other announcements" Pres. Nelson

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1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You are using quotes here without giving sources. What are we to make of that?

It's a direct quote taken from Elder Maxwell and quoted by Bernard immediately above.

ETA: I love this sermon from Elder Maxwell! 😍

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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1 hour ago, Ahab said:

if you haven't noticed, nobody is Church leadership is saying "follow me, I'll show you the way".  There are some leaders who say we should follow the prophet, and naturally anyone who knows what a prophet is should know why they should follow the prophet, but when that happens that is only because those leaders have faith in their more upper level leaders based upon what the Holy Ghost has taught them through the words of those leaders as the Holy Ghost confirmed that what they were saying was good and true.

So ultimately the ultimate teaching about who we should learn from is still being taught.  That we should learn from God for ourselves to know when and if we should follow the counsel of men who lead in the church, knowing then that those men have spoken as prophets of  God.

Underlying it all is the understanding that we should learn from God first and foremost before accepting any counsel from men in this world, and in the true church of Jesus Christ too.

Your circular definition of a prophet makes this sort of dialogue with you useless. 

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1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You are using quotes here without giving sources. What are we to make of that? Are they really words that others have uttered, or are they your own words that you put quotation marks around to give them apparent authenticity that they don’t really have? 

The quote was provided and I quoted it in responding. 

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3 hours ago, Ahab said:

If those numbers are correct those are the numbers for only on this side of the veil, and with more and more temples being built and more living members (any increase) joining it that means more work is now being done in temples for those who at least possibly could be receiving it in the realm of the dead.

By my calculation, every one of our operating temples (156) would need to be performing a proxy baptism every 1.5 minutes of every hour of every day just to keep up with the 150,000 daily deaths on Earth.   And then there is all those who have died previously. 

Edited by rockpond
Incorporating Calm’s correction.

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6 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Your circular definition of a prophet makes this sort of dialogue with you useless. 

It's not circular.  A prophet is simply whatever a prophet is when acting as a prophet.  It would be silly to suppose someone is a prophet when they are not acting like one.

Not that any of that helped you to better understand what a prophet is.  Try substituting the word "prophet" with "man who says what God said" and see if that helps you.

Any man who says what God said is always speaking as a prophet, but when any man does not say what God said then that man isn't speaking as a prophet at that time.

Stick with it and maybe someday you will understand.

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11 minutes ago, rockpond said:

By my calculation, every one of our operating temples (156) would need to be performing a proxy baptism every 1.5 seconds of every hour of every day just to keep up with the 150,000 daily deaths on Earth.   And then there is all those who have died previously. 

150000/156=962 per temple daily

962/24=  40 per hour

60 minutes/40 baptisms=1.5 minutes per baptism

Edited by Calm
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17 minutes ago, rockpond said:

By my calculation, every one of our operating temples (156) would need to be performing a proxy baptism every 1.5 seconds of every hour of every day just to keep up with the 150,000 daily deaths on Earth.   And then there is all those who have died previously. 

I imagine if we're taking too long our Lord will just extend the length of the millenium.  1000 years by whose reckoning? But yes we will need to do all of the work, eventually.  Are you helping?

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32 minutes ago, rockpond said:

By my calculation, every one of our operating temples (156) would need to be performing a proxy baptism every 1.5 seconds of every hour of every day just to keep up with the 150,000 daily deaths on Earth.   And then there is all those who have died previously. 

I have no clue what you're getting at here. If we're not currently keeping up with the death rate, then clearly the work isn't accelerating? Is your goal to convince us that Pres Nelson lied and consequently we should all stop trying in order to prove him wrong and you right? I seriously can't see any other purpose in your statement than to dampen others' enthusiasm for the work and/or for the prophet's words. It's kind of a downer ...

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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12 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I have no clue what you're getting at here. If we're not currently keeping up with the death rate, then clearly the work isn't accelerating? Is your goal to convince us that Pres Nelson lied and consequently we should all stop trying in order to prove him wrong and you right? I seriously can't see any other purpose in your statement than to dampen others' enthusiasm. It's kind of a downer ...

I think maybe he just needs some positive reinforcement.  It does seem like it's a whole lot of work.  And yes we must get it all done.  Eventually.  Kinda puts some pressure on the people who are willing to do it, doesn't it.  Or maybe not, really.

Maybe if he understood that there haven't always been as many deaths each year as there are in this year then he would feel a little less overwhelmed?  

I plan to do what I can and just keep working at it until all of the work is eventually done.  And who knows, maybe someday the Lord will tell us that we really don't need to do it for certain people, thus saving us a lot of time and effort.

Kids under 8 years old are like saved already!  Yippee!!!

Edited by Ahab

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31 minutes ago, rockpond said:

The quote was provided and I quoted it in responding. 

Ah, I see. Thanks.

For reference, here is the quote:

“But make no mistake about it, brothers and sisters; in the months and years ahead, events will require of each member that he or she decide whether or not he or she will follow the First Presidency. Members will find it more difficult to halt longer between two opinions (see 1 Kings 18:21).

President Marion G. Romney said, many years ago, that he had “never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, or political life” (CR, April 1941, p. 123). This is a hard doctrine, but it is a particularly vital doctrine in a society which is becoming more wicked. In short, brothers and sisters, not being ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ...”

So the “make no mistake” is written as emphatic preamble to the declaration that events will require choosing whether to side with the First Presidency or the world. That much is axiomatic. It has already happened time and again since Elder Maxwell said those words. 

The “never hesitated to follow the counsel of the authorities” is a quotation from President Romney regarding his own practice and experience. Elder Maxwell cites that example by way of advising his listeners to not be ashamed either of the gospel of Christ or of His prophets. Good advice, say I. 

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1 hour ago, Ahab said:

It's not circular.  A prophet is simply whatever a prophet is when acting as a prophet.  It would be silly to suppose someone is a prophet when they are not acting like one.

As I said: circular. The funniest thing here is that I think you are serious with that response. 

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

Not that any of that helped you to better understand what a prophet is.  Try substituting the word "prophet" with "man who says what God said" and see if that helps you.

Still circular.  But thanks. 

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

Any man who says what God said is always speaking as a prophet, but when any man does not say what God said then that man isn't speaking as a prophet at that time.

Again, not useful. 

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

Stick with it and maybe someday you will understand.

I understand you.  It’s just that your definition is useless. 

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47 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Ah, I see. Thanks.

For reference, here is the quote:

“But make no mistake about it, brothers and sisters; in the months and years ahead, events will require of each member that he or she decide whether or not he or she will follow the First Presidency. Members will find it more difficult to halt longer between two opinions (see 1 Kings 18:21).

President Marion G. Romney said, many years ago, that he had “never hesitated to follow the counsel of the Authorities of the Church even though it crossed my social, professional, or political life” (CR, April 1941, p. 123). This is a hard doctrine, but it is a particularly vital doctrine in a society which is becoming more wicked. In short, brothers and sisters, not being ashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ includes not being ashamed of the prophets of Jesus Christ...”

So the “make no mistake” is written as emphatic preamble to the declaration that events will require choosing whether to side with the First Presidency or the world. That much is axiomatic. It has already happened time and again since Elder Maxwell said those words. 

The “never hesitated to follow the counsel of the authorities” is a quotation from President Romney regarding his own practice and experience. Elder Maxwell cites that example by way of advising his listeners to not be ashamed either of the gospel of Christ or of His prophets. Good advice, say I. 

All of which supports the point I was making.  Thanks. 

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

150000/156=962 per temple daily

962/24=  40 per hour

60 minutes/40 baptisms=1.5 minutes per baptism

Thank you for the correction, I meant to write “minutes” not seconds. 

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1 hour ago, Ahab said:

I imagine if we're taking too long our Lord will just extend the length of the millenium.  1000 years by whose reckoning? But yes we will need to do all of the work, eventually.  Are you helping?

Yes, I am. I love going on our youth temple trips to assist and baptisms might just be my favorite temple ordinance. 

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1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I have no clue what you're getting at here. If we're not currently keeping up with the death rate, then clearly the work isn't accelerating? Is your goal to convince us that Pres Nelson lied and consequently we should all stop trying in order to prove him wrong and you right? I seriously can't see any other purpose in your statement than to dampen others' enthusiasm for the work and/or for the prophet's words. It's kind of a downer ...

No, I’ve never said that President Nelson lied. 

I’m sorry that the facts are a downer for you. 

You’ll note that I was responding to a post that talked about baptism numbers on different sides of the veil.  My point is that I think we need more people baptized on this side of the veil as well as the other side. 

Or a more efficient method, but that’s above my pay grade. 

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Double post.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan

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20 minutes ago, rockpond said:

No, I’ve never said that President Nelson lied. 

So you accept then that the work is accelerating?

20 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I’m sorry that the facts are a downer for you. 

The facts don't worry me at all. I have complete confidence that the Lord knows what He is doing and will not let anyone slip through the cracks. From my perspective, the work is definitely accelerating, and I expect it to continue to accelerate in both familiar and new ways going forward. Hearkening to the words of the living prophets has been essential to my engagement in the work, and with each passing year, I feel ever more grateful that God has given us such guides. There is nowhere I would rather be than in the very centre of the body of Saints, my tent pitched with its opening facing the temple and the authorised oracles. Like Pres Nelson, I think we live in exciting times!

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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2 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

So you accept then that the work is accelerating?

I believe that President Nelson sees something accelerating... I asked (earlier) for others’ ideas on what that might be. 

2 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I have complete confidence that the Lord knows what He is doing and will not let anyone slip through the cracks.

I also have complete confidence in the Lord.  I worry that we mortals could be letting people slip through the cracks. 

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50 minutes ago, rockpond said:

All of which supports the point I was making.  Thanks. 

So apparently “the point [you] were making,” whatever it is, is not all that alarming. 

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1 hour ago, rockpond said:

Yes, I am. I love going on our youth temple trips to assist and baptisms might just be my favorite temple ordinance. 

I can see that. Oddly enough, since becoming a temple ordinance worker, my favorite is initiatory.  Both serving as proxy and officiator, but especially officiator.

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1 minute ago, Stargazer said:

Oddly enough, since becoming a temple ordinance worker, my favorite is initiatory.  Both serving as proxy and officiator, but especially officiator.

Same! I honestly cannot describe the experience of speaking such words with tangible authority. So, so sweet!

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1 hour ago, rockpond said:

No, I’ve never said that President Nelson lied. 

I’m sorry that the facts are a downer for you. 

You’ll note that I was responding to a post that talked about baptism numbers on different sides of the veil.  My point is that I think we need more people baptized on this side of the veil as well as the other side. 

Or a more efficient method, but that’s above my pay grade. 

I don't know why, actually, but your post made me laugh.

I think it was the image that it invoked, in my admittedly odd brain, that there would be "an app for that," and maybe I should learn Android programming and make one.  I had some apps for Windows Phone in the Windows marketplace once upon a time, so it's not beyond my pay grade!  

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1 hour ago, rockpond said:

I believe that President Nelson sees something accelerating... I asked (earlier) for others’ ideas on what that might be. 

I also have complete confidence in the Lord.  I worry that we mortals could be letting people slip through the cracks. 

The acceleration need not be an acceleration of converts, but an acceleration of "getting the word out."  I wonder if the Church is about to launch initiatives using current technology that will spread the word faster than ever before, so that more people are aware of the Church and what it stands for?  Too many people know us as the "Mormon Church", and because they hear that first, last and in between, they think they know us, when they really don't.  The new emphasis on branding seems to be the kind of thing which may be able to ignite curiosity, and get more people over the hurdle of thinking incorrectly that they know all about the Church.

Member missionary work is so darned slow, and the missionaries in some places have too few people to teach.  As an RM I can be sure that our FTMs prefer teaching to finding.  So what we need are better finding methods.

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1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

So apparently “the point [you] were making,” whatever it is, is not all that alarming. 

Alarming was not my intent. 

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16 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

The acceleration need not be an acceleration of converts, but an acceleration of "getting the word out."  I wonder if the Church is about to launch initiatives using current technology that will spread the word faster than ever before, so that more people are aware of the Church and what it stands for?  Too many people know us as the "Mormon Church", and because they hear that first, last and in between, they think they know us, when they really don't.  The new emphasis on branding seems to be the kind of thing which may be able to ignite curiosity, and get more people over the hurdle of thinking incorrectly that they know all about the Church.

Member missionary work is so darned slow, and the missionaries in some places have too few people to teach.  As an RM I can be sure that our FTMs prefer teaching to finding.  So what we need are better finding methods.

But, as the numbers show, an acceleration of getting the word out without an accompanying acceleration of performing saving ordinances, doesn’t accelerate the work of salvation. (My understanding being that salvation requires the ordinances.)

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