A History Question

[Mark Beesley]

The Handbook states that the only “official” definition of hot drinks meaning tea and coffee came from early Church leaders. Which early Church leader made the announcement, in what official capacity was he acting, and was the statement ratified by the Quorum of the Twelve? References please.

[SettingDogStar]

4 minutes ago, Mark Beesley said:

The Handbook states that the only “official” definition of hot drinks meaning tea and coffee came from early Church leaders. Which early Church leader made the announcement, in what official capacity was he acting, and was the statement ratified by the Quorum of the Twelve? References please.

Good question, I’ve heard it was Hyrum that made it first clear that it was in reference to Coffee and Tea (though I summize it’s because these were the only common hot drinks at the time and were drunk when they were basically boiling)

I hope someone has some good sources, I have no idea where to look and I’ve had the same question!!

Edited August 25, 2019 by SettingDogStar

[Robert F. Smith]

http://www.ldsliving.com/In-New-Era-Church-Clarifies-Word-of-Wisdom-and-Stance-on-Green-Tea-Vaping-More/s/91375?fbclid=IwAR1vA7Ht5rnhvpebjrfagIu5YGcpcdc2R1DzkCFlAtSawTi_BmC_vgTMyNM  

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/word-of-wisdom?lang=eng&_r=1  

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-student-manual/section-89-the-word-of-wisdom?lang=eng  

Edited August 25, 2019 by Robert F. Smith

[CV75]

4 hours ago, Mark Beesley said:

The Handbook states that the only “official” definition of hot drinks meaning tea and coffee came from early Church leaders. Which early Church leader made the announcement, in what official capacity was he acting, and was the statement ratified by the Quorum of the Twelve? References please.

This is easy enough to look up, but I can offer this deep spiritual insight: I've eaten coffee ice cream on the "grounds" it is artificially-flavored. Until I discovered my Hagen-Daz, which is "steeped" in tradition, uses all natural ingredients. Should there be a storm "brewing" over what I should do about this hot drink rendered into a frozen desert?

[Glenn101]

6 hours ago, Mark Beesley said:

The Handbook states that the only “official” definition of hot drinks meaning tea and coffee came from early Church leaders. Which early Church leader made the announcement, in what official capacity was he acting, and was the statement ratified by the Quorum of the Twelve? References please.

Brigham Young gave a speech on August 17 of 1867 where he said that tea and coffee were hot drinks that the Word of Wisdom was referring to. It can be found in the Journal of Discourses, Volume 12, Page 117. Research has shown that the words in that JOD transcription are not exactly what he said, but the actual information is correct.

Glenn

[Burnside]

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/search?query=coffee&sort=page number&page=1&perpage=10&startdate=&enddate=&transcripts=false&issuggestion=false&uri=/published/jsp/expanded/papers/43990549/43990549-0235.xml&types=documents-papers|documents-papers-histories|related-materials|biographical-directory|geographical-directory|glossary|event

[CV75]

My cuppa runneth over.

[Ahab]

22 hours ago, CV75 said:

This is easy enough to look up, but I can offer this deep spiritual insight: I've eaten coffee ice cream on the "grounds" it is artificially-flavored. Until I discovered my Hagen-Daz, which is "steeped" in tradition, uses all natural ingredients. Should there be a storm "brewing" over what I should do about this hot drink rendered into a frozen desert?

No, I don't think so.  Just eat it.

Just eat it. 

Eat it.  Eat it.  Eat it.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

No, I don't think so.  Just eat it.

Just eat it. 

Eat it.  Eat it.  Eat it.

Weird "Ahab" Yankovich!

[clarkgoble]

On 8/25/2019 at 8:47 AM, Mark Beesley said:

The Handbook states that the only “official” definition of hot drinks meaning tea and coffee came from early Church leaders. Which early Church leader made the announcement, in what official capacity was he acting, and was the statement ratified by the Quorum of the Twelve? References please.

It's generally seen as arising from Hyrum Smith editorial which then everyone followed. "The Word of Wisdom," Times and Seasons 3 no. 15 (1 June 1842), 801  Of course that doesn't mean Hyrum actually came up with the idea on his own or that it wasn't discussed earlier. But I believe that's the first public record we have. You can find earlier discussion assuming a prohibition on tea and coffe, but not explicitly linking it.  (Sorry I'd get more explicit, but for some reasons the JSP pages aren't functioning properly again) Clyde Ford's "The Origin of the Word of Wisdom" is worth reading too. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by clarkgoble

[Analytics]

1 hour ago, clarkgoble said:

It's generally seen as arising from Hyrum Smith editorial which then everyone followed. "The Word of Wisdom," Times and Seasons 3 no. 15 (1 June 1842), 801  Of course that doesn't mean Hyrum actually came up with the idea on his own or that it wasn't discussed earlier. But I believe that's the first public record we have. You can find earlier discussion assuming a prohibition on tea and coffe, but not explicitly linking it.  (Sorry I'd get more explicit, but for some reasons the JSP pages aren't functioning properly again) Clyde Ford's "The Origin of the Word of Wisdom" is worth reading too. 

I found it at JSP.

Hyrum wrote, "And again ‘hot drinks are not for the body, or belly;’ there are many who wonder what this can mean; whether it refers to tea, or coffee, or not. I say it does refer to tea, and coffee."

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/times-and-seasons-1-june-1842/1#full-transcript

[mfbukowski]

4 hours ago, Ahab said:

No, I don't think so.  Just eat it.

Just eat it. 

Eat it.  Eat it.  Eat it.

But only if you put chocolate sauce on top. 

Then eat it!

Now you're talkin'!

Edited August 26, 2019 by mfbukowski

[Ahab]

4 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

But only if you put chocolate sauce on top. 

Now you're talkin'!

Coffee does make chocolate taste better.  My wife uses coffee whenever she makes chocolate cake, and wine for spaghetti sauce too, but I'm pretty sure all the bad stuff is all cooked out of it because it taste so incredibly good!

Oh, and rum nougats are some of my favorite candies.  I could eat a million and a half of those!

[SettingDogStar]

3 hours ago, Analytics said:

I found it at JSP.

Hyrum wrote, "And again ‘hot drinks are not for the body, or belly;’ there are many who wonder what this can mean; whether it refers to tea, or coffee, or not. I say it does refer to tea, and coffee."

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/times-and-seasons-1-june-1842/1#full-transcript

Was Hyrum just the patriarch at the time of writing this?

[2BizE]

I think the WoW ban on hot drinks has outlasted its usefulness.  There were also similar bans such as Blacks and the priesthood, polygamy, women not giving prayers in sacrament meetings and conference, penalties in the temple ordinances, males only getting the priesthood at the age of 12 years...that were found to no longer be useful.  I think hot drinks fit into this category as well.