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MustardSeed

Callings given to imperfect human beings

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On 9/3/2019 at 11:27 AM, Scott Lloyd said:

I’m of the opinion that only those personally and materially involved in a misdeed bear accountability for it, although those who come later can express disapproval of it. 

This happened several years ago when the Illinois General Assembly passed a resolution expressing regret for the oppression of the Latter-day Saints in that state in the 1840s. There is no way anyone now living bears culpability for said oppression. But it was a nice gesture. 

It also happened when Church leaders some years ago expressed regret for the errant actions of Church members who perpetrated the Mountain Meadows Massacre. No one now living is culpable for the massacre, and the Church as an institution is not, because the perpetrators acted without authorization from the Church. But a formal expression of regret (not an apology or an acceptance of blame) was appropriate under the circumstances.

 

Yesterday I came back from a short vaca in St. George with some friends. They mentioned one thing on the list to do might be to visit MMM monument. And I told them I heard that Glen M. Leonard who co authored the book about it with Richard L. Turley, was speaking last night in St. George. I don't think they made it, but think it would have been very interesting. I bet he was presenting because it was around the anniversary of the MMM happening. I guess our friend's relative participated in it. :( Also, I listened to this podcast on Gospel Tangents about who bears the responsibility with Barbara Jones Brown. She said Brigham Young wouldn't be directly to blame for it, but lit the fire that possibly started it. 

https://gospeltangents.com/2019/03/who-bears-responsibility-for-mmm/

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6 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Yesterday I came back from a short vaca in St. George with some friends. They mentioned one thing on the list to do might be to visit MMM monument. And I told them I heard that Glen M. Leonard who co authored the book about it with Richard L. Turley, was speaking last night in St. George. I don't think they made it, but think it would have been very interesting. I bet he was presenting because it was around the anniversary of the MMM happening. I guess our friend's relative participated in it. :( Also, I listened to this podcast on Gospel Tangents about who bears the responsibility with Barbara Jones Brown. She said Brigham Young wouldn't be directly to blame for it, but lit the fire that possibly started it. 

https://gospeltangents.com/2019/03/who-bears-responsibility-for-mmm/

Why don’t you just read the book that Leonard, Turley and Ron Walker wrote?

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12 hours ago, Tacenda said:

She said Brigham Young wouldn't be directly to blame for it, but lit the fire that possibly started it.

All religions and causes have the potential to produce zealots.  It has no bearing on the correctness of the cause or religion.

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Something continually bothers here. Why is the church not the progressive church, but instead a regressive one. Why are we last in change? Blacks in the PH, Gays and SSM, polygamy?

If God speaks to our leaders why are we last to know?

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40 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Something continually bothers here. Why is the church not the progressive church, but instead a regressive one. Why are we last in change? Blacks in the PH, Gays and SSM, polygamy?

If God speaks to our leaders why are we last to know?

Actually the world in general is the last to know what God really wants and what God really thinks.  It's not as if our Lord's church is supposed to keep up and conform to the standards generally accepted by everyone in the world, as if the world always has the correct view.

The black skin thing never was a bad thing.  It was meant as a sign to show they had rejected the Lord and his correct teachings as taught by prophets of God through the ages.  When they started to return to him, after the restoration of the priesthood in this last dispensation,  then the Lord saw fit to authorize their ordinations to offices in the priesthood.  It just took a little while longer for that to happen than it did for some other people.

The "gay" thing is bad, though, and it always has been and always will be bad.  It's good for people to love others of their same sex but there should be no same sex sexual relations whether the laws of the land consider them to be "married" or not.

Edited by Ahab

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5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Something continually bothers here. Why is the church not the progressive church, but instead a regressive one. Why are we last in change? Blacks in the PH, Gays and SSM, polygamy?

If God speaks to our leaders why are we last to know?

Are we?

In some ways we are very progressive (if defining progressive in terms of social movements)...see history of welfare for example.  Also educational programs.

What do you mean last to know?  Who else is being told before membership about revelations?

Edited by Calm
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We've been discussing polygamy, and I wanted to bring up something Joseph Smith did wrong. So a very imperfect thing to do. He didn't follow the revealed doctrine in the Doctrine and Covenants section 132:61. So how in the world was he able to get away with it. I'm thinking, not sure, it's because the 132 section was later added when Joseph was dead? Also, note that Brigham Young did live polyandry with section 132 in place, I'm thinking. So he did imperfect things as well. Well, I think he did a lot of imperfect things. ETA: It appears that they've left the verse out of the seminary lesson. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/doctrine-and-covenants-and-church-history-seminary-teacher-manual-2014/section-6/lesson-140-doctrine-and-covenants-132-1-2-34-66?lang=eng&fbclid=IwAR3O5SDR2QIoCwRg-B1yCfyo-gONBMIVhVRy0Hwf7vnT0U9CbQ_SwqDO9dI

61 And again, as pertaining to the law of the priesthood—if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse aanother, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery for they are given unto him; for he cannot commit adultery with that that belongeth unto him and to no one else.

 

Edited by Tacenda

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Sunday School President

The organ player in Sacrament meetings

Young Men's President

Elder's Quorum President

Bishop

We got rid of the high priest group leader so that is one less calling to give to imperfect human beings, but there are still a lot of other callings to give.

Sunday School Gospel Doctrine Teacher

First Counselor in a ward bishopric

Second Counselor in a ward bishopric

Executive Secretary to the ward bishop

Ward Membership Clerk

Ward Finance Clerk

Relief Society President

And a lot of other callings, I'm sure, that I'm not thinking of at this moment.

 

 

Edited by Ahab

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