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rockpond

Policies on Same Gender Marriage remain unchanged

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20 minutes ago, marineland said:

From what I have seen on the church's website, it says that everyone on earth is a
spirit son or daughter born of heavenly parents in some premortal life.  I am not
sure if anything has been revealed about the next question but was one's sexuality
determined when he was born to heavenly parents or earthly parents?

Well, there's sexuality and sexual orientation.

I think LDS teachings (specifically the family proclamation) would say that one's sex, male or female is determined at spiritual birth.  I'm surmising as I don't think that's been specifically said.

Also, not specifically laid out is sexual orientation of spirit children but again, extrapolating on what we have been taught, I would gather that the current LDS doctrine on this tells us that we are all heterosexual in our pre- and post-mortal existences.

 

If you were asking me personally... I believe that sexual orientation is largely determined in the womb and is then, for most, an immutable trait.

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54 minutes ago, marineland said:

Do you believe same-sex marriage is God's will or is it against God's will? 

It is against God's will.  It is an abomination, a misapplication of how things should be.  The "marriage" part of it is the problem and the "marriage" part refers to the physical joining together in what is referred to as "sex".

There is nothing at all wrong with loving someone of the same sex or of being affectionate toward them, as long as it doesn't cross the line that should not be crossed.

It's not just what I believe but the way God feels about it, too.  Not just my opinion.  God has told us enough for us to know how he feels about that.

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2 minutes ago, Ahab said:

It is against God's will.  It is an abomination, a misapplication of how things should be.  The "marriage" part of it is the problem and the "marriage" part refers to the physical joining together in what is referred to as "sex".

There is nothing at all wrong with loving someone of the same sex or of being affectionate toward them, as long as it doesn't cross the line that should not be crossed.

It's not just what I believe but the way God feels about it, too.  Not just my opinion.  God has told us enough for us to know how he feels about that.

You should clarify that those last few sentences are your belief on the matter.  We don't actually have God on record regarding this.

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54 minutes ago, marineland said:

From what I have seen on the church's website, it says that everyone on earth is a
spirit son or daughter born of heavenly parents in some premortal life.  I am not
sure if anything has been revealed about the next question but was one's sexuality
determined when he was born to heavenly parents or earthly parents?

Yes, each child of our parents in heaven was born as either a son or a daughter and it was as wrong then for 2 people of the same sex to join in a sexual union as it is today.

Not that I expect you to take my word for it, but God has told us it is wrong for 2 people of the same sex to join in that way and it isn't as if he has ever changed his mind about that.

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3 minutes ago, rockpond said:

You should clarify that those last few sentences are your belief on the matter.  We don't actually have God on record regarding this.

I do!  And if by "we' in your last sentence above you're referring to everyone on this planet you can fend for yourself!   There are a lot of things I know that not everybody knows!

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10 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Yes, each child of our parents in heaven was born as either a son or a daughter and it was as wrong then for 2 people of the same sex to join in a sexual union as it is today.

Not that I expect you to take my word for it, but God has told us it is wrong for 2 people of the same sex to join in that way and it isn't as if he has ever changed his mind about that.

You might want to start adding "IMO" or "it's my opinion" or preface this with "I believe".  Because not all agree with you here regarding your statements or share your beliefs.

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, ALarson said:

You might want to start adding "IMO" or "it's my opinion" or preface this with "I believe".  Because not all agree with you here regarding your statements or share your beliefs.

When I said "Yes" I was answering the question of "was one's sexuality determined when he was born to heavenly parents or earthly parents?" and when I said "each child of our parents in heaven was born as either a son or a daughter and it was as wrong then for 2 people of the same sex to join in a sexual union as it is today" I was basing that on what I know God has revealed on that issue.  Not that I expect you or everyone else to know it but the information is generally available to everyone on this planet, believe it or not.

And as I said, I didn't expect the person I was talking to, or you either, to just take my word for what I said, but God has told us... meaning generally everyone on this planet... it is wrong for 2 people of the same sex to join in that way and it isn't as if he has ever changed his mind about that.

Edited by Ahab

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Yes, each child of our parents in heaven was born as either a son or a daughter and it was as wrong then for 2 people of the same sex to join in a sexual union as it is today.

Not that I expect you to take my word for it, but God has told us it is wrong for 2 people of the same sex to join in that way and it isn't as if he has ever changed his mind about that.

Did you know that someone came in later and added homosexuality to the bible? I posted a link explaining all about it. I will have to find it again. This isn't it but is interesting as well.https://www.rmnetwork.org/newrmn/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Booklet-about-Homosexuality-and-the-Bible-Sept.-2016.pdf

Edited by Tacenda

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Posted (edited)
56 minutes ago, Ahab said:

I do!  And if by "we' in your last sentence above you're referring to everyone on this planet you can fend for yourself!   There are a lot of things I know that not everybody knows!

I know that God honors the marriages and eternal commitments of His gay and lesbian children who have entered same gender relationships in the same way He honors the marriages and eternal commitments of those, gay or straight, who enter opposite sex relationships.

Edited by rockpond

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3 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I know that God honors the marriages and eternal commitments of His gay and lesbian children who have entered same gender relationships in the same way He honors the marriages and eternal commitments of those who enter opposite sex relationships.

Thanks for finally going on the record about that. 

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2 minutes ago, kllindley said:

Thanks for finally going on the record about that. 

I thought I had already.

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My memory was that previously you had framed it as a belief. 

But if you now know how God views things, even as you insist that others can't really know, I have a much clearer sense of how seriously to take anything you say. 

3 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I thought I had already.

 

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10 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I know that God honors the marriages and eternal commitments of His gay and lesbian children who have entered same gender relationships in the same way He honors the marriages and eternal commitments of those, gay or straight, who enter opposite sex relationships.

Rather than ask for a reference to support your assertion I'll simply say that we don't agree on how God feels about SSMs and your reputation as someone who really knows how God feels about this has just dropped a few notches.

Which begs the question, exactly how low can you go, I wonder.

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3 minutes ago, kllindley said:

My memory was that previously you had framed it as a belief. 

But if you now know how God views things, even as you insist that others can't really know, I have a much clearer sense of how seriously to take anything you say. 

 

Please take it in context of the conversation with @Ahab.  We're talking about personal revelation.  Normally I would say "believe" but I'm trying to speak his spiritual language.

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3 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Rather than ask for a reference to support your assertion I'll simply say that we don't agree on how God feels about SSMs and your reputation as someone who really knows how God feels about this has just dropped a few notches.

Which begs the question, exactly how low can you go, I wonder.

Not concerned about what you think of my ability to know how God feels.

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6 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Rather than ask for a reference to support your assertion...

Also... I'll provide the reference after you provide one to support your assertion.

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2 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Please take it in context of the conversation with @Ahab.  We're talking about personal revelation.  Normally I would say "believe" but I'm trying to speak his spiritual language.

There are some things I believe but am not sure about and which I haven't received revelation from God about.  I try to differentiate between those kinds of things I believe and the things I believe based on personal revelation from God.

Just understand that even I know there is a difference and it's not as if I equate every belief as something that God has assured someone about.

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23 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I know that God honors the marriages and eternal commitments of His gay and lesbian children who have entered same gender relationships in the same way He honors the marriages and eternal commitments of those, gay or straight, who enter opposite sex relationships.

Thanks for sharing your opinion. I completely disagree, but I am glad we can share our opinions freely   

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Just now, rockpond said:

Also... I'll provide the reference after you provide one to support your assertion.

I'm okay with us keeping things at this level.  You can take anything I say as just coming from me, personally, even if I say God has told me something in particular, because from your perspective it is still just coming from me. 

Likewise, I'll take anything you say as just coming from you.

It's all any of us have, anyway, because even when we quote what someone else said that God said it still looks as if it is just coming from that person who said so.

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1 minute ago, Ahab said:

It's all any of us have, anyway, because even when we quote what someone else said that God said it still looks as if it is just coming from that person who said so.

Especially if one starts quoting those silly fellows, the prophets.

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1 minute ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Especially if one starts quoting those silly fellows, the prophets.

Yep.  But a prophet is still what a prophet is, by definition, and the main issue is primarily just the matter of knowing whether or not and when a man is speaking as a prophet of God.

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8 minutes ago, Ahab said:

I'm okay with us keeping things at this level.  You can take anything I say as just coming from me, personally, even if I say God has told me something in particular, because from your perspective it is still just coming from me. 

Likewise, I'll take anything you say as just coming from you.

It's all any of us have, anyway, because even when we quote what someone else said that God said it still looks as if it is just coming from that person who said so.

And we just have to live with the dichotomy of having received personal revelations that are seemingly in conflict. 

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Ahab said:

The main issue is primarily just the matter of knowing whether or not and when a man is speaking as a prophet of God.

Simple, mate. Whenever a prophet says something we don't like or that contradicts our personal beliefs, then we can know with certainty that he's just speaking as a man. But whenever someone tells us that we're right and need no correction, then we can know with certainty that he is a prophet. See Helaman 13:24-28.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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2 minutes ago, rockpond said:

And we just have to live with the dichotomy of having received personal revelations that are seemingly in conflict. 

No, you don't seem to have understood me.  When you say something which is contrary to what God has told me, then I know you are wrong, even if you say God told you what you say God told you. 

I don't just take your word as God's word just because you are saying God told you something.   

I check with God for myself, without having to rely on someone else to act as an intermediary.   Well, other than Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost, I mean. I know they speak for God, too. And then God tells me when men have spoken as prophets, too.

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12 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Simple, mate. Whenever a prophet says something we don't like or that contradicts our personal beliefs, then we can know with certainty that he's just speaking as a man. But whenever someone tells us that we're right and need no correction, then we can know with certainty that he is a prophet. See Helaman 13:24-28.

Heh, listen to yourself.   Whenever a prophet.... 

How do you know when a man is speaking as a prophet in the first place?

The only way for you to know when a man is speaking as a prophet is for you to receive God's assurance that that man is speaking for him, saying what God wants to be said.

The fact that other people call someone a prophet of God shouldn't sway you,. as if you're just supposed to take their word for it.  You need to find out for yourself and God is the only one you should rely on to tell you.

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