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Policies on Same Gender Marriage remain unchanged


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4 minutes ago, Nacho2dope said:

I appreciate your feedback and opinions. I think you are really focused on the word leader in the quote and trying to prove leaders can be wrong.

Do I need to prove that?  Does anyone here think that leaders can't be wrong?  Do you?

4 minutes ago, Nacho2dope said:

If I said that leaders can’t ever be wrong then I apologize that is not what I meant.

You didn't.  It's the President Oaks quote that states that leaders teachings can't be wrong.

4 minutes ago, Nacho2dope said:

I think you and I will never agree and that is okay. Gods Laws and Commands are very clear to me, and I personally will follow them the best I can regardless of what others opinions may be. I will also not change them for my own convenience. For just a silly example God has command we should not steal. Prophet also says we should not steal. Person says I don’t need this prophet telling me what to do, he doesn’t know me or my circumstances. God has better things to do then worry about anything that I have stolen, and I have personal revelation that I am right. Again just a silly example but unfortunately I hear similar things everyday. Again we may both be talking about different things. Thanks again for your thoughts. I look forward to interacting more in the future. Have a great weekend!!

I agree with what you've written here.

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46 minutes ago, rockpond said:

Do I need to prove that?  Does anyone here think that leaders can't be wrong?  Do you?

You didn't.  It's the President Oaks quote that states that leaders teachings can't be wrong.

I agree with what you've written here.

Are you referring to this quote? "“If we get an impression contrary to the scriptures, to the commandments of God, to the teachings of His leaders, then we know it can’t be coming from the Holy Ghost. The gospel is consistent throughout.”

I think he's saying that the Holy Ghost will not give an impression contrary to the "triangulation" of scripture, commandments, and teachings on a given point. These three things inform each other.

Of course each person is responsible for studying out and praying about what the scripture, commandments, and teachings say and mean on a given point, and this sometimes results in the exceptional dissenting interpretation. This is where the body of Christ comes in and how the spiritual gifts of all the members in combination create a unified whole as to what the Holy Spirit has given them individually to sustain collectively. "Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

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4 hours ago, marineland said:

While I am not a member of this church, I understand where you are coming from. Part
of sustaining those in leadership is agreeing that what they are teaching us is the truth.
If one cannot accept their words as truth, then either the hearer is wrong in their
assessment or the teacher must be corrected.

I think Elder Oaks’ quote covers a productive way of managing expectations for ecclesiastical leaders in setting forth a community’s doctrine. Because they are fallible, their teaching is required to align with scripture, the commandments, and hopefully one’s personal witness of the Holy Ghost. While this is an individual process, it comes together in the faith community on the whole.

This way a follower of Christ should not be surprised or disappointed that church leaders are fallible, and recognize that by grace we have scriptures setting the record straight from without and the Holy Ghost setting things straight from within. Given that the scriptures and individuals are fallible as well, we rely upon faith, hope, charity and grace in how the community corrects itself, including errant hearers and leaders when necessary.

I would not think that those who have low expectations of their leaders (or of scripture, or of the companionship of the Holy Ghost) would be especially disappointed when they go unmet. Something else is out of whack when an attitude of contention, enmity or dissension enters the picture. This often seems to be the case when someone shares personal revelation that runs “contrary to the scriptures, to the commandments of God, to the teachings of His leaders” or finds disappointment and not relief when he realizes his expectations need to be lower.

Edited by CV75
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On 8/30/2019 at 1:21 PM, Ahab said:

The method of relying on God's word to us, personally, is more prevalent than some people realize.  God's word to us comes as he gives us his assurance that something is right, or true, and good. 

So basically anytime we get a good idea that is right and true, that idea has come to us from God.  He gives us good insights and helps us to do and figure out what is good and true.

As opposed to bad ideas which comes from that guy we associate with all that is bad and false.

Self driving cars?  I'm still pondering that idea.  I"m fine with the idea as long as I am the self who is driving what I am in.

Your comment does nothing to address the  point I was trying to make. No surprise though.

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On 9/1/2019 at 2:23 PM, Teancum said:

Your comment does nothing to address the  point I was trying to make. No surprise though.

Actually my comment did address the point you were making, even though you don't seem to realize it.  Engineers who design planes and self driving cars often use the same "feel good" method "religious" people use to determine when something feels right and good, even if they do not realize it.  It's not just about the words or numbers designers use in the design phase, when they are designing something, but also about how they feel when they are formulating their designs.  And fortunately they can also "repent" (or the equivalent even if they don''t call it that) when they realize they have made an error.

Edited by Ahab
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