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High Councilman arrested for filming a woman getting undressed

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5 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

You'd have to wade into the stories, but I remember several that were abused psychologically and a few physically during a bishop's interview. I would have to spend some time going through again, I will if I can. Soon going to babysit my new granddaughter while my daughter gets an oil change, if she will let me know a time, that would be nice!! ;) 

https://protecteverychild.com/read-the-stories/

Thanks Tac. Have fun with your grandbaby. 😊

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3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Thanks Tac. Have fun with your grandbaby. 😊

Thank you! BTW, did you notice I edited my post? Just wanted to make sure you realize I don't know if many of the stories to Sam's website are true. 

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12 minutes ago, bluebell said:

How would a camera on the bishop help with inappropriate questions though, and still maintain the privacy of the other person?  Audio would pick up both people in the room, wouldn’t it?

I didn't suggest a camera....and I'm not sure how it would help, to be honest.  It may prevent inappropriate questioning though....

12 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I think that’s what the real struggle is. Most of the preventive measures we can think of, prevent things that we aren’t really having problems with, but don’t resolve other concerns. 

I think we are having problems with abuse (unless it's just publicized more now?).  For me, I believe the best preventative solution would be to have the mandatory youth interviews (where the leader initiates the interview) be two deep (for the protection of the leaders too).  I know the leaders have already made that an option, but I feel it should be policy.  I also believe that if the youth initiates the interview or has something they want to discuss privately with a leader, they should be allowed a one on one interview (if the youth desires this). 

Edited by ALarson

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1 hour ago, ALarson said:

I didn't suggest a camera....and I'm not sure how it would help, to be honest.  It may prevent inappropriate questioning though....

I think we are having problems with abuse (unless it's just publicized more now?).  For me, I believe the best preventative solution would be to have the mandatory youth interviews (where the leader initiates the interview) be two deep (for the protection of the leaders too).  I know the leaders have already made that an option, but I feel it should be policy.  I also believe that if the youth initiates the interview or has something they want to discuss privately with a leader, they should be allowed a one on one interview (if the youth desires this). 

My question was to Mustard Seed, who mentioned using a camera that was trained only onto the bishop.  That's why I asked the camera question.

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11 minutes ago, bluebell said:

My question was to Mustard Seed, who mentioned using a camera that was trained only onto the bishop.  That's why I asked the camera question.

Oh...gotcha.  You quoted me and addressed the question to me (that's why I responded).  Sorry for the confusion!

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57 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Oh...gotcha.  You quoted me and addressed the question to me (that's why I responded).  Sorry for the confusion!

I did address you, because you answered my question to Mustard Seed concerning the cameras.  :D 

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On 8/20/2019 at 11:02 AM, Duncan said:

I saw that! no pun intended😏 i'm going to throw this out there but probably not his first time

People who do such things, seldom get caught the first time. There will be other photos, other files, at least that is what the cop in me, tells me. 

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I know it was highlighted this man was a HP....but the issue is not his Church, there are bad people in every church, profession, city, state, country.  The issue is this person is like so many nowadays of both sexes: they have issues.  They have problems.  Perhaps it was always this way, or maybe the society we now live in breeds these issues.  Regardless, his actions have hurt so many lives.  

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On 9/11/2019 at 5:28 PM, UtahTexan said:

I know it was highlighted this man was a HP....but the issue is not his Church, there are bad people in every church, profession, city, state, country.  The issue is this person is like so many nowadays of both sexes: they have issues.  They have problems.  Perhaps it was always this way, or maybe the society we now live in breeds these issues.  Regardless, his actions have hurt so many lives.  

Another one bites the dust! https://kutv.com/news/nation-world/more-people-come-forward-accusing-drivers-ed-teacher-lds-bishop-of-sex-abuse?fbclid=IwAR3aCWxZENIFZPlwngo2rEOmolQ6wEJuHTPxAzDJL2YC4n2gWxYk2L7uZMk

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48 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

That is the same one biting the dust.

There is new information, bet yeah you're right.

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5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

There is new information, bet yeah you're right.

Yeah, I would have guessed he probably made at least “soft” advances while in that position before he was caught going much further. Good for those willing to step forward when they heard. Easier to do nothing.

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43 minutes ago, smac97 said:

An update:

Wow.  This is a surprising development.  

I hope Bro. Murdock gets some help, and otherwise does not return to his inappropriate behavior.

Thanks,

-Smac

I agree, I hope he gets help.  Is it really that surprising that he pleaded guilty though?  It seems to me that is the only appropriate plea if he really did do it - the steps of the repentance process almost requires it. 

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8 minutes ago, pogi said:

I agree, I hope he gets help.  Is it really that surprising that he pleaded guilty though? 

It was to those involved in the case, apparently.

8 minutes ago, pogi said:

It seems to me that is the only appropriate plea if he really did do it - the steps of the repentance process almost requires it. 

I agree.  But this plea was in court, not in a bishop's office.  There are plenty of reasons why a person could legitimately please "not guilty" to misconduct in a civil/criminal proceeding.  That is a fairly different discussion from the religious aspect (in which Bro. Murdock admits and accepts responsibility for misconduct, but to a bishop and/or stake president).

Thanks,

-Smac

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On 8/20/2019 at 12:23 PM, bluebell said:

All good questions Tac.  I'm not sure what is messed up with the psychologically to cause them to do it but I think it all boils down to being incredibly selfish.

How about the old "irresistable impulse" defence?

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13 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

Inappropriate behavior is spanking Sister Jones on the bottom in jest. This is perverse criminal behavior. If this guy just wanted his jollies he would just buy some porn but he created his own by invading the privacy of an innocent and unwilling woman in a dressing room- turning her into his own porn. It’s sick.  Most men can’t imagine how humiliating that would be for a woman. 😡

Actually most men do realize it, and that's why they don't do it.

As for buying it, there is a sado-masochistic market out there, both for the guy who wants to spank, and for the guy who wants to be spanked.

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9 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

How about the old "irresistable impulse" defence?

Since irresistible impulses do not exist, I don't think that would be a valid option.

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1 hour ago, katherine the great said:

Inappropriate behavior is spanking Sister Jones on the bottom in jest. 

"Inappropriate behavior" covers a broad spectrum of misconduct.

1 hour ago, katherine the great said:

This is perverse criminal behavior.

Potato, po-tah-to.

1 hour ago, katherine the great said:

If this guy just wanted his jollies he would just buy some porn but he created his own by invading the privacy of an innocent and unwilling woman in a dressing room- turning her into his own porn. It’s sick.  

I invite you to review this thread.  Nowhere in it will you find me saying anything close to excusing or justifying or rationalizing Bro. Murdock's behavior.

That I choose to use something-other-than-emotionally-charged terminology does not mean that I found the conduct to be in any way appropriate or acceptable.

1 hour ago, katherine the great said:

Most men can’t imagine how humiliating that would be for a woman. 😡

No need to turn this into a front on the Gender Wars.

-Smac

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3 hours ago, smac97 said:

I agree.  But this plea was in court, not in a bishop's office.  There are plenty of reasons why a person could legitimately please "not guilty" to misconduct in a civil/criminal proceeding.  That is a fairly different discussion from the religious aspect (in which Bro. Murdock admits and accepts responsibility for misconduct, but to a bishop and/or stake president).

Thanks,

-Smac

Could you explain this to me because I am generally curious and may not understand law as well as I should?  If a person admits guilt to a bishop, under what circumstances could he legitimately plead "not guilty" in court?  Isn't that lying?  Doesn't restitution and reconciliation require accountability for your behavior both legally and ecclesiastically?  Doesn't restitution, in part, require the victim to feel like justice has been served for the charges filed against him?  For him to fight the charges (if he knows he is guilty) and get off Scot-free potentially, how would accountability and restitution/reconciliation be served?

Edited by pogi

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15 minutes ago, pogi said:

If a person admits guilt to a bishop, under what circumstances could he legitimately plead "not guilty" in court?  Isn't that lying?

I can't -- and don't want to -- speak to this individual matter, but I can speak generally. When I was serving as Young Men president, one of our priests came to me one night with a serious confession. He had, he admitted, broken a law of God, and as a consequence, he had also been accused of having broken the law of the land. As he spoke to me, it was clear that (if he was telling the truth), he was actually innocent of the legal charge. A child of migrant parents with poor language skills and a complete lack of understanding of the legal system, he needed help from outside his family, so for the next 20 months, I assisted him in obtaining funding first for a solicitor and then for a barrister, and I was with him for all consultations, hearings, etc. The matter proceeded from the Children's Court to the Magistrates Court to the Court of Appeal, where he was exonerated.

He had committed a serious sin, but he had not broken the law. Throughout the proceedings, he had repeatedly plead innocent. But he had chosen to confess everything to both Bishop and me, which resulted in Church discipline. I would like to report that he has resolved that issue; to date, he hasn't. But at least he's not rotting in gaol for something he didn't actually do -- a credible outcome, especially when, in his despondence, he considered pleading guilty just to terminate the nightmare of fighting the charges.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan

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5 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I can't -- and don't want to -- speak to this individual matter, but I can speak generally. When I was serving as Young Men president, one of our priests came to me one night with a serious confession. He had, he admitted, broken a law of God, and as a consequence, he had also been accused of having broken the law of the land. As he spoke to me, it was clear that (if he was telling the truth), he was actually innocent of the legal charge. A child of migrant parents with poor language skills and a complete lack of understanding of the legal system, he needed help from outside his family, so for the next 20 months, I assisted him in obtaining funding first for a solicitor and then for a barrister, and I was with him for all consultations, hearings, etc. The matter proceeded from the Children's Court to the Magistrates Court to the Court of Appeal, where he was exonerated. He had committed a serious sin, but he had not broken the law.

Yes, I can understand if a law has not been broken why you would plead "not guilty", but if the sin is actually a criminal offense (as it appears to be the case in this matter), doesn't it require an honest plea of guilt to fulfill the requirements for repentance?

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I hope some on this thread now believe we need to not have appointed interviews with youth one on one, unless a youth asks to speak with the bishop alone on their own.

Here's yet another LDS man in trouble. Looks to have served as a missionary etc. in his older years etc. I checked his FB,  but don't know what his callings are. But these people look to be the best people, but you just don't know. https://www.stgeorgeutah.com/news/archive/2019/11/01/cgb-washington-city-man-arrested-charged-with-aggravated-sexual-abuse-of-child/?fbclid=IwAR3jmB2xAuF4NPPLgKtsjHh-vi9B9DRDOZ5TcZO_xdWxG6dk-Ch25Sjjxc4#.XcDDwajYrdQ

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