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Ed Smart, father of Elizabeth Smart, Announces he is gay

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1 minute ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Aren’t topics that vast numbers of people want to comment on by definition newsworthy?

That can be a factor, I think.  See here.

Thanks,

-Smac

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1 hour ago, 6EQUJ5 said:
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If he didn't intend it to go public, he should not have published it on Facebook. 

An older, kind, and probably not technically savvy man posts personal -- not to mention respectful and reasonable -- message on FB.  You decide to take a dump on him. Nice work.

I've said nothing disparaging about Mr. Smart.  At all.  I've done nothing like "take a dump on him."

If I say to a friend "If you didn't want to hear profanity, you shouldn't have gone to that David Mamet play," I am not "taking a dump" on my friend.  I'm just suggesting that he knew, or should have known, what he was going to hear at the play.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited by smac97
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50 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Both leave. In my experience men leave more then women. Women for many years got promises that their loneliness would be compensated for. Men got blamed for their single status. To be fair in many cases the blame was very warranted. I am not sure about my case. Many guys were tired of being told to just keep going and have faith and it will work out. I fought tooth and nail to get integrated into my current ward and am fortunate the ward needs every body to fill callings. In a strong ward singles generally wind up as Single Adult Reps which is the most depressing calling I have ever had.

In our ward the EQ President is single. I think giving real callings is getting more common. Having been single until relatively late (at least in Utah - not outside) I certainly understand the pain. There's a lot pushing one out that I don't think people who got married in their 20's quite understand. When nearly all members are swamped with Church and family duties that limits your social options. The wards for over 30 are horrible with lots of pretty dysfunctional people there. It's very hard to attend them - although I understand they are becoming rarer. If you socialize with friends under 20 - even attending their wards, bishops often give you a very hard time. If you try to find social groups who actually do things you'll find most are non-members or inactive members. Not a lot of choices.

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So a 64 year old married man with 5 children divorces his wife and leaves the church.  And he puts in on facebook and thinks it's not going to get out.  I think if he wanted to inform his family, he should have contacted them not through facebook.

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2 minutes ago, alter idem said:

So a 64 year old married man with 5 children divorces his wife and leaves the church.  And he puts in on facebook and thinks it's not going to get out.  I think if he wanted to inform his family, he should have contacted them not through facebook.

That probably would have been best. He must have known someone else would see it, but maybe not he did remove it once it was picked up.

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5 minutes ago, alter idem said:

So a 64 year old married man with 5 children divorces his wife and leaves the church.  And he puts in on facebook and thinks it's not going to get out.  I think if he wanted to inform his family, he should have contacted them not through facebook.

Well, it's been stated that he thought he was posting in a private area of Facebook, but it was where all could read it (or something along those lines?  I'm not on Facebook, so I'm not sure how it works....).

He was posting it for friends as well as for other family members from what he stated:

Quote

Ed Smart, the father of kidnapping survivor Elizabeth Smart, confirmed to FOX 13 that he came out as gay in a Facebook post — which was quickly removed Thursday because it was intended for friends and family only.

 

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44 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

That's a fair point.

I'm looking at "problem" from the standpoint of lost revenue (tithing), loss of human capital (dedicated workers to hold callings and serve), loss of leadership etc. It's true, that if they don't value those things on a temporal basis, and they aren't concerned about the loss of souls (they are stewards)  then there may not be a problem. OR if they don't view those things as controllable or their responsibility, that would also explain it.

 

Yes, I think that your looking at 'problem' from a standpoint that doesn't mesh with what the church purports to be and what it purports to do.   If the church was a social organization, then I think your perspective would make sense, but as it's not I don't think that perspective holds up.

 

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37 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

An older, kind, and probably not technically savvy man posts personal -- not to mention respectful and reasonable -- message on FB.  You decide to take a dump on him. Nice work.

 

The article that I read (SLTrib) seemed to imply that it was made public by a friend or family.  Not sure if that implication is correct.

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Members of the Utah law enforcement community learned 17 years ago that he might be gay because they checked his computer over because of his daughter's abduction and found things that pointed to homosexual proclivities. Others learned about it through them from that time forward.

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Courage.

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1 hour ago, clarkgoble said:

In our ward the EQ President is single. I think giving real callings is getting more common. Having been single until relatively late (at least in Utah - not outside) I certainly understand the pain. There's a lot pushing one out that I don't think people who got married in their 20's quite understand. When nearly all members are swamped with Church and family duties that limits your social options. The wards for over 30 are horrible with lots of pretty dysfunctional people there. It's very hard to attend them - although I understand they are becoming rarer. If you socialize with friends under 20 - even attending their wards, bishops often give you a very hard time. If you try to find social groups who actually do things you'll find most are non-members or inactive members. Not a lot of choices.

I was asked to stay in my YSA ward when I turned 31 to help the bishop run Sunday School (I was Sunday School President and taught one of the two classes). I was grateful that bishop I was confident I would not harass the 19 to 24 year old set but felt it was time to leave.

I really do not enjoy the Single Adult Program. It was rare that I would go to any of their activities or meetings and leave not depressed. I do not go any more.

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13 minutes ago, tkv said:

Members of the Utah law enforcement community learned 17 years ago that he might be gay because they checked his computer over because of his daughter's abduction and found things that pointed to homosexual proclivities. Others learned about it through them from that time forward.

C'mon.  We do not need to publicly discuss stuff like this.

-Smac

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2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Who cares? I thought we were past “coming out” being a big newsworthy deal.

We certainly should be.  But, since we aren't past it, it's a pretty interested add to their family's story.  I mean we even have the Nehor showing up to try and add his cynical expression of pretended ambivalence hoping to make it appear less newsworthy, defecting from the bottom line issue. 

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3 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I think, how difficult to be a public figure such as Elizabeth under such circumstance.  There is the public statement that must be polished, then there is all the human reaction and feeling that must be overwhelming. 

Elizabeth is a bit of a hero.  Someone who endured what she did, not only healed, but then sought to publicly help people by putting herself in the spotlight, starting and running a foundation in her name, going on speaking tours, etc.  

Not everyone who has been sexually assaulted does that.  Correction - almost nobody who has endured such a trauma seeks and invites the spotlight.  

I'm a fan.

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1 hour ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

An older, kind, and probably not technically savvy man posts personal -- not to mention respectful and reasonable -- message on FB.  You decide to take a dump on him. Nice work.

 

We don't even have the full story here. It is entirely possible that the news got out and Ed Smart contacted the DN to break the story with them instead of someone else. Ed is a semi-public figure known across the nation. It seems a bit ridiculous to speculate on the bad motives of the Desseret News. Now if the DN hacked his computer, sent people to harrass and take embarrassing pictures or something like that, then we could talk...

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14 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I was asked to stay in my YSA ward when I turned 31 to help the bishop run Sunday School (I was Sunday School President and taught one of the two classes). I was grateful that bishop I was confident I would not harass the 19 to 24 year old set but felt it was time to leave.

I really do not enjoy the Single Adult Program. It was rare that I would go to any of their activities or meetings and leave not depressed. I do not go any more.

*ahem*

You ever think about, uh, visiting Cougartown?

Speed limit 35-45ish?

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1 hour ago, smac97 said:

I've said nothing disparaging about Mr. Smart.  At all.  I've done nothing like "take a dump on him."

Thanks,

-Smac

I dont' think you've taken a dump on him either.  But think of it this way.  If you knew him personally and learned he left the Church would you not find yourself disappointed in him?  If so, imagine how that message comes out clearly from your posts on the topic?  You don't seem to know him, but hints of your disappointment in him  come out.  It happens, almost universal in the Church, it seems.  

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12 minutes ago, smac97 said:

C'mon.  We do not need to publicly discuss stuff like this.

-Smac

Agreed.  Why is that out?  

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2 hours ago, smac97 said:

Again, I'm also not sure one-upmanship regarding which struggle is more difficult is helpful in any meaningful way.

Thanks,

-Smac

One the one hand I agree. Everyone struggles in this life, and we all suffer internally in our own minds. Telling someone that they shouldn't be depressed because so and so has it worse is not helpful. 

On the other hand, this is a bit disingenuous. I didn't make the comparison, Mustard Seed did. The church often does (see the Oaks Wickman interview from church public affairs). I see it all the time on this board that everyone just has to live the law of chastity equally, meanwhile completely ignoring the fact that the church's law of chastity is completely asymmetric when applied to gay vs straight people. I think the "trial" of homosexuality is particularly difficult for church members to bear because, one, it is so isolating, but two, and perhaps more importantly, the "trial" itself is entirely manufactured by the Church (which stands in for God if you believe). That is, if a single person leaves the church, their odds for marriage don't necessarily increase. If a homosexual member, on the other hand, leaves the church, their odds for finding companionship go up exponentially. 

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3 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I dont' think you've taken a dump on him either.  But think of it this way.  If you knew him personally and learned he left the Church would you not find yourself disappointed in him? 

If I did, I wouldn't publish such sentiments to the world.

3 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

If so, imagine how that message comes out clearly from your posts on the topic? 

No, I can't imagine that.  I've said nothing to disparage or insult or fault Mr. Smart.

3 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

You don't seem to know him, but hints of your disappointment in him  come out.

Nope.  That's your gloss.

Thanks,

-Smac

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2 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

As evidence, I ask in all sincerity, which group is more likely to go through the painful process of leaving the church? Gays or singles?

Neither is compelled to leave the Church, though to remain members in good standing, both are required to meet conditions they may find difficult. 

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17 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

We certainly should be.  But, since we aren't past it, it's a pretty interested add to their family's story.  I mean we even have the Nehor showing up to try and add his cynical expression of pretended ambivalence hoping to make it appear less newsworthy, defecting from the bottom line issue. 

I assume you meant “deflecting”. Deflecting from what? That gay people who act on their desire are judged sinful by the church and usually leave? What would be the point of deflecting from that discussion? Another thread about it would show up in the next day. I am convinced that this board is powered by discussions about homosexuality and if there is not such a thread on the first page the End of Days is upon us.

13 minutes ago, SteveO said:

*ahem*

You ever think about, uh, visiting Cougartown?

Speed limit 35-45ish?

I am trying to decrease my depression.

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3 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

One the one hand I agree. Everyone struggles in this life, and we all suffer internally in our own minds. Telling someone that they shouldn't be depressed because so and so has it worse is not helpful. 

Pretty much.

3 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

On the other hand, this is a bit disingenuous.

Or we just have disparate perspectives.  No need for the public accusation of dishonesty.

3 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I didn't make the comparison, Mustard Seed did.

Okay.

3 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

The church often does (see the Oaks Wickman interview from church public affairs).

I don't think so.

3 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I see it all the time on this board that everyone just has to live the law of chastity equally,

The law applies to all of us.  Equality of application does not translate to equality of outcome.

3 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

meanwhile completely ignoring the fact that the church's law of chastity is completely asymmetric when applied to gay vs straight people.

No, it's not.  All members of the Church are prohibited from engaging in adultery, fornication, or homosexual behavior.  

3 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I think the "trial" of homosexuality is particularly difficult for church members to bear because, one, it is so isolating, but two, and perhaps more importantly, the "trial" itself is entirely manufactured by the Church (which stands in for God if you believe).

Your statement doesn't make much sense.  If the Church "stands in for God," then the Law of Chastity is not "entirely manufactured by the Church."

3 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

That is, if a single person leaves the church, their odds for marriage don't necessarily increase.

I don't understand.  What does that have to do with the Law of Chastity (which applies to members of the Church)?

3 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

If a homosexual member, on the other hand, leaves the church, their odds for finding companionship go up exponentially. 

Again, so what?  The Law of Chastity applies to mmembers of the Church.

Thanks,

-Smac

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9 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

One the one hand I agree. Everyone struggles in this life, and we all suffer internally in our own minds. Telling someone that they shouldn't be depressed because so and so has it worse is not helpful. 

On the other hand, this is a bit disingenuous. I didn't make the comparison, Mustard Seed did. The church often does (see the Oaks Wickman interview from church public affairs). I see it all the time on this board that everyone just has to live the law of chastity equally, meanwhile completely ignoring the fact that the church's law of chastity is completely asymmetric when applied to gay vs straight people. I think the "trial" of homosexuality is particularly difficult for church members to bear because, one, it is so isolating, but two, and perhaps more importantly, the "trial" itself is entirely manufactured by the Church (which stands in for God if you believe). That is, if a single person leaves the church, their odds for marriage don't necessarily increase. If a homosexual member, on the other hand, leaves the church, their odds for finding companionship go up exponentially. 

I would quibble about your ending bit there just a little. I think if I had left the church I would be married by now. Leaving and giving up on temple marriage massively increases the pool of potential partners. Many singles I know who leave or go inactive find marriage shortly afterwards.

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46 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I think the "trial" of homosexuality is particularly difficult for church members to bear because, one, it is so isolating, but two, and perhaps more importantly, the "trial" itself is entirely manufactured by the Church (which stands in for God if you believe). 

Original sin (mortal existence) is a trial for all, and neither manufactured by the Church nor the individual.  Mortal weakness to be fought against is a part of everyone's life.

The real trial is when we think we shouldn't have to fight and embrace our mortal weakness.

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