Ed Smart, father of Elizabeth Smart, Announces he is gay

[Daniel2]

On 8/16/2019 at 10:10 PM, mrmarklin said:

I think the fact that he’s leaving the Church means that he has had or is having an affair. Being gay, in and of itself is not a sin, and not necessarily a reason to leave the church. 

This is a HUGE leap in logic, and recklessly untrue.

I personally know many gay men who never expressed or acted up on their sexuality who have left the church; some were singles, others were in a mixed-marriage. 

[ALarson]

13 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I’ve already responded to this question;

I think all he wants is a yes or no answer to this question:

Do YOU BELIVE that the Priesthood Ban was instigated as a result of the Prophet (at that time) receiving a revelation from God?

(Unless I'm misunderstanding).

You seem to be refusing to answer yes or no.....is that because you feel that's not possible?  If so, just say that you're not able to answer yes or no.....and move on...

[Daniel2]

On 8/17/2019 at 8:05 AM, Kevin Christensen said:

There is the unasked question about whether sex addiction could be a factor. A key diagnostic for sex addiction is a conviction that "sex is my most important need," that is,  the first and great commandment, the center and priority of life.  A key result for those who have treated sex addiction through the recovery process is not a change in desire or orientation, but that sex can be optional, and not the most important need.  It happens that ignorance of sex addiction and recovery or denial that it exists both have the effect or removing that option from the discussion .

FWIW 

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

Historically, you’ve always raised this question in gay-related threads, so it’s not surprising you do so, here. 

What troubling, though, is that Mr. Smart said nothing of sex being his motivation for coming out at all, yet you still continue to imply being gay is tied to sex addiction. 

It’s also worth continuing to repeat that the concept of “sex addiction” is highly controversial and isn’t actually recognized by most major medical/psychological/psychiatric organizations.

[Storm Rider]

17 hours ago, california boy said:

I have to say, this thread has been an eye opener for me.  I had no idea just how judgmental members of the Church could possibly be against someone who is gay.  I really wonder how universal these feelings are in the Church.  I would like to set up a poll to ask some questions about how members feel about straight divorces, but I don't know how to do that on this site.  Perhaps someone more savvy could help me.  It would be interesting to see if there are any differences in attitudes on the two types of divorce.  

These are the questions I would like to ask everyone on this thread.

When a wife in a straight marriage files for divorce in the Church do you think it is part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ to

A. Speculate whether the husband is having an affair?

B. Speculate that the husband is a sex addict?

C.Assume the husband is overcome by the power of Satan?

D. Accuse the husband of sliming his wife?

E. Speculate that the husband is in the throes of Jungle Fever?

F. Believe the husband is not now, and never has been a moral man?

G. Assume the husband Is wholly self-centered, turning from Christ to satiate one's passions. 

So let's hear your response.  Just type the letter and give us a yes or no to each question in the survey.  If you wish, you can add a comment about how all of this fits perfectly in with the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  

 

I had to go back and find this "poll" that you mentioned in a later post and stated no one took it. 

Seriously, these are supposed to be real questions. I don't even see how they apply. Let's put it in a different context that is more applicable to the situation. Wife announces to the world she is a lesbian and after decades of marriage and at the ripe old age of 64 wants a divorce from her mate and husband. Do others think - SHE was, is, or had an affair? Do they speculate she is a sex addict? etc.

This is just laughable. I really don't think you are pushing it, I just think you have fallen into a different universe and aren't talking about the topic. Sorry.

[Meadowchik]

3 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

I had to go back and find this "poll" that you mentioned in a later post and stated no one took it. 

Seriously, these are supposed to be real questions. I don't even see how they apply. Let's put it in a different context that is more applicable to the situation. Wife announces to the world she is a lesbian and after decades of marriage and at the ripe old age of 64 wants a divorce from her mate and husband. Do others think - SHE was, is, or had an affair? Do they speculate she is a sex addict? etc.

This is just laughable. I really don't think you are pushing it, I just think you have fallen into a different universe and aren't talking about the topic. Sorry.

If you answer the questions, perhaps that will help him make the connection for you, why it is indeed relevant?

[ALarson]

6 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

I had to go back and find this "poll" that you mentioned in a later post and stated no one took it. 

Seriously, these are supposed to be real questions. I don't even see how they apply. Let's put it in a different context that is more applicable to the situation. Wife announces to the world she is a lesbian and after decades of marriage and at the ripe old age of 64 wants a divorce from her mate and husband. Do others think - SHE was, is, or had an affair? Do they speculate she is a sex addict? etc.

This is just laughable. I really don't think you are pushing it, I just think you have fallen into a different universe and aren't talking about the topic. Sorry.

All of his examples given have been posted here regarding speculation (or outright accusations) against Ed Smart.  So no....I see nothing in his poll that is "just laughable" since he was quoting members here.

 

Edited August 18, 2019 by ALarson

[california boy]

37 minutes ago, ALarson said:

I think all he wants is a yes or no answer to this question:

Do YOU BELIVE that the Priesthood Ban was instigated as a result of the Prophet (at that time) receiving a revelation from God?

(Unless I'm misunderstanding).

You seem to be refusing to answer yes or no.....is that because you feel that's not possible?  If so, just say that you're not able to answer yes or no.....and move on...

For some reason you seem to clearly understand what I am asking. But apparently Bro. Scott doesn’t want to answer, and continues to evade a very simple question.   

No problem.  I have asked as clearly as I can.  Not that important.  Moving on.

Edited August 18, 2019 by california boy

[california boy]

25 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

I had to go back and find this "poll" that you mentioned in a later post and stated no one took it. 

Seriously, these are supposed to be real questions. I don't even see how they apply. Let's put it in a different context that is more applicable to the situation. Wife announces to the world she is a lesbian and after decades of marriage and at the ripe old age of 64 wants a divorce from her mate and husband. Do others think - SHE was, is, or had an affair? Do they speculate she is a sex addict? etc.

This is just laughable. I really don't think you are pushing it, I just think you have fallen into a different universe and aren't talking about the topic. Sorry.

Well they were all speculations about Ed Smart and his divorce.  I am trying to find out if any of the numerous speculations about his announced divorce was part of how members live the gospel and if this kind of speculation is how announcements of straight marriages are speculated on as well.

‘Maybe it is common in the church you belong to, and I have indeed fallen into a alternative universe where such speculation would not be a part of anybody’s  divorce whether straight or gay.

In my alternate universe. Lliving the gospel of Jesus Christ, speculation would not be appropriate on the lesbian scenario either.   

[Vance]

19 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

What does it profit a man, to judge another's best efforts to do right? Also, being gay is about more than sex.

I said NOTHING about "being gay"!!! Nor did I announce any judgment on any specific person for any specific act.

That being said, ANY sexual activity outside of God's lawful arrangement of marriage between a man and a woman IS sin.

It has been that way from the beginning, and isn't going to change EVER!!

 

[Vance]

21 hours ago, JulieM said:

Wow.  None of that has to do with whether or not someone is gay.  For every example you give like yours above, one can be given for a heterosexual leaving their marriage for immoral reasons.

Like I posted,

What doth it profit a man, to gain his sexual desires and lose his own soul?

[ALarson]

8 minutes ago, Vance said:

That being said, ANY sexual activity outside of God's lawful arrangement of marriage between a man and a woman IS sin.

How do you know this is taking place here?

Did you miss this part of his statement?

Quote

I’ve learned that so many out there live their life, but they go out on the side, and that was something I absolutely could not do to Lois.

Edited August 18, 2019 by ALarson

[Scott Lloyd]

36 minutes ago, california boy said:

For some reason you seem to clearly understand what I am asking. But apparently Bro. Scott doesn’t want to answer, and continues to evade a very simple question.   

No problem.  I have asked as clearly as I can.  Not that important.  Moving on.

And apparently, Raingirl and Kenngo1969 grasped my response just fine. 

This is not a Senate hearing where Kamala Harris tries to prevent a witness from giving a nuanced response and tries to bully said witness into giving a one-word reply. 

[ALarson]

42 minutes ago, california boy said:

For some reason you seem to clearly understand what I am asking. But apparently Bro. Scott doesn’t want to answer, and continues to evade a very simple question.   

No problem.  I have asked as clearly as I can.  Not that important.  Moving on.

Good move....

Apparently it's not a question he can answer with just a simple "yes" or "no"....or even a "maybe"  

It might be a good discussion for another thread though?  (If you're interested enough in pursuing it....)

[Storm Rider]

26 minutes ago, california boy said:

Well they were all speculations about Ed Smart and his divorce.  I am trying to find out if any of the numerous speculations about his announced divorce was part of how members live the gospel and if this kind of speculation is how announcements of straight marriages are speculated on as well.

‘Maybe it is common in the church you belong to, and I have indeed fallen into a alternative universe where such speculation would not be a part of anybody’s  divorce whether straight or gay.

In my alternate universe. Lliving the gospel of Jesus Christ, speculation would not be appropriate on the lesbian scenario either.   

My impression was there was a discussion trying to understand how and why Brother Smart could, would divorce his wife of decades.  I agree that there was another discussion that speculated on reasons - the motivations for the two discussions are different.

I also think you are plying that holier than thou schtick a little too thickly.

When couples break up or divorce, I do think people wonder what brought them to that place. However, I also think as divorce has become so prevalent that it does not occur as much as it once did. 

[Storm Rider]

1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

If you answer the questions, perhaps that will help him make the connection for you, why it is indeed relevant?

Sorry, I thought they were really stupid and did not apply. Just me. 

[Vance]

17 hours ago, california boy said:

D I V O R C E

Do you remember our discussion on Oaks Talk Doesn't Explain The Scripture on Remarriage and these words of Christ found in Matthew 5"32

 

We had quite a discussion about how through revelation from God, modern prophets allow divorce in the Church.  According to this article in the Deseret News, the divorce rate among members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is between 40-45%

Now let's look at some of the responses from our posters

Now lets see what the attitudes towards divorce is when the husband comes out as gay.

Longview

 

All of this outrage against divorce.  Perhaps it is justified.  I just want to know where all this outrage was when everyone was defending divorce n the previous thread?  Do people only start condemning divorce when the reason for that divorce is the husband is gay?  And why focus on this one individual when 40-45% of the members of the Church are getting divorced?  Isn't this one gay guy pretty insignificant compared to the real problem?  Or perhaps it is just easier to condemn situations that you personally will never find yourself in.

•  

Being "gay" is NOT a valid excuse to get a divorce.  Unrepentantly engaging in homosexual acts IS a valid reason for the non homosexual spouse to file for divorce.

Unless Smart is, or is planning on, engaging in sexual acts with ANY one other than his wife, or if his wife is being unfaithful, there is no valid reason for their marriage to be dissolved.

[ALarson]

2 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

Sorry, I thought they were really stupid and did not apply. 

Do you also believe they "were really stupid" when members here posted the same accusations and speculations and applied them to Ed Smart?

And that they don't apply to his situation either?

[Meadowchik]

1 minute ago, Storm Rider said:

Sorry, I thought they were really stupid and did not apply. Just me. 

Too bad!

[Scott Lloyd]

 

13 hours ago, ALarson said:

Good move....

Apparently it's not a question he can answer with just a simple "yes" or "no"....or even a "maybe"  

It might be a good discussion for another thread though?  (If you're interested enough in pursuing it....)

As I just said to CB, this is not a Senate hearing where Kamala Harris tries to prevent a witness from giving a nuanced response and, instead, tries to bully said witness into giving one-word answers. I won’t tolerate that. Not from CB and not from you. 

I’ve already given my opinion that the restriction, for as long as it lasted, was consistent with the will of God. If that’s not enough for the two of you, not my problem. 

Edited August 19, 2019 by Scott Lloyd

[Meadowchik]

3 minutes ago, Vance said:

Being "gay" is NOT a valid excuse to get a divorce.  Unrepentantly engaging in homosexual acts IS a valid reason for the non homosexual spouse to file for divorce.

Unless Smart is, or is planning on, engaging in sexual acts with ANY one other than his wife, or if his wife is being unfaithful, there is no valid reason for their marriage to be dissolved.

I think peoples' reasons for divorcing are their own. Healthy relationships in my opinion are more important than staying married.

[ALarson]

3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

 

As I just said to CB, this is not a Senate hearing where Kamala Harris tried to prevent a witness from giving a nuanced response and, instead, tries to bully said witness into giving one-word responses. I won’t tolerate that. Not from CB and not from you. 

I’ve already given my opinion that the restriction, for as long as it lasted, was consistent with the will of God. If that’s not enough for the two of you, not my problem. 

We get it.  You don't want to give a yes or no answer to the question (or you're not able to do so as it's more complicated for you).

I'm not sure why you just won't say that (or answer it with a yes or no...of even just an "I don't know" if there was a revelation) since it's not a difficult question, IMO.

But, it's a derail here anyway so let's move on (as california boy is willing to do too).

Edited August 18, 2019 by ALarson

[Scott Lloyd]

2 minutes ago, ALarson said:

We get it.  You don't want to give a yes or no answer to the question (or you're not able to do so as it's more complicated for you).

I'm not sure why you just won't say that (or answer it with a yes or no...of even just an "I don't know" if there was a revelation) since it's not a difficult question, IMO.

But, it's a derail here anyway so let's move on (as california boy is willing to do too).

We would already have moved on if you hadn’t chimed in. 

[Vance]

24 minutes ago, ALarson said:

How do you know this is taking place here?

I didn't say it WAS taking place here.

 

[Vance]

9 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

I think peoples' reasons for divorcing are their own. Healthy relationships in my opinion are more important than staying married.

And peoples' reasons for killing each other are their own as well.  But that doesn't make it right.

[Meadowchik]

8 minutes ago, Vance said:

And peoples' reasons for killing each other are their own as well.  But that doesn't make it right.

People murdering others is not a healthy relationship. People deciding to divorce can be consistent with a healthy relationship.

Edited August 18, 2019 by Meadowchik