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JAHS

Letting our kids be friends with Non-church member neighbors.

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Posted (edited)
On 8/9/2019 at 5:00 PM, alter idem said:

Growing up in California, that did happen, but I truly think they were trying to be considerate. My friends would make plans for the weekends without me to attend parties and would tell me, 'we didn't invite you because people will be drinking etc.'  I think you have to realize that if you don't fit in with the prevailing culture, you may experience some isolation.

This was my experience in high school as well.  I appreciated the fact that they understood and respected my values.  

Perhaps things have changed in California a bit since those days.  My adult children tell me that they have experienced prejudice against them for being Mormon.  We didn't really talk about what that entailed, but certainly different than how the Church was viewed in California when I was growing up.  Back then people viewed the church very positively.  A family centered Church with good values.  

My kids always played with nonmembers.  At the high school, the Church kids were well respected with most of the leadership positions in the school held by members   (This was all pre prop 8).  I don't know if that has changed at the high school since then.

Edited by california boy

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, california boy said:

 My adult children tell me that they have experienced prejudice against them for being Mormon.
 

For many years our stake president was a member of an organized Christian leadership group from different faiths who often met together to discuss various community issues affecting the spiritual climate and church members of our California city. One day they decided to ask him to leave the group because in their opinion because he was Mormon he wasn't a real Christian and didn't belong in their group. 

Edited by JAHS
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When our kids (all adults now) were in elementary school, other children at school would tell them they were not invited to parties  because they weren't "real Christians."  Once, one of our daughters protested, and the girl told her, "It's your fault.  It's your stupid religion."

Children learn what they are taught.

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On 8/5/2019 at 10:24 AM, JAHS said:

This article at KSL talks about that ever present issue about who we let our kids play and be friends with.
Non-members moving into a predominately Latter-day Saint neighborhood find their kids being ignored or even shunned by their neighbors.
The writer of the article gives the non-Latter-day Saint church member some reasons and suggestions for resolving the issue.
1. Fear is likely the problem - They may fear their children will be led away from their religion by friends who have different beliefs
2. Differences scare people  -  It is basic human nature to feel more comfortable with people who are just like you. We all choose friends with whom we have things in common
3. They may fear some specific things in your home - Alcohol, tobbacco, coffee
4. Address the kids' parents directly
5. Talk to some of your other Latter-day Saint neighbors - Let other members of the church who live in your neighborhood know what is happening and see if they might be willing to ask others to make sure your children are included.

Is this a real problem with many members or just a few? Is this mostly a problem in Utah or does it happen with many parents outside Utah also? I think if we keep ourselves aware of what our children are doing and teach them correct principles, and have open communication with them and their non-member friend's parents, there should not be so much fear of letting them be friends with them.  

I would say I have only ever heard of this in deeply entrenched LDS communities. Sure, people are always cautious of who their kids hang with, but it doesn't go as over the top.

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On 8/11/2019 at 6:46 PM, Garden Girl said:

I grew up in So Cal (San Bernardino) and now live in Oregon (Lincoln City ward on the coast).  Growing up there were few LDS kids...

GG

Now I understand why you like Oregon so much, especially the coast.

Not much in common with San Berdoo! ;)

 

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On 8/11/2019 at 8:31 PM, Bernard Gui said:

Not all. 

 

Just the beautiful ones.

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, california boy said:

This was my experience in high school as well.  I appreciated the fact that they understood and respected my values.  

Perhaps things have changed in California a bit since those days.  My adult children tell me that they have experienced prejudice against them for being Mormon.  We didn't really talk about what that entailed, but certainly different than how the Church was viewed in California when I was growing up.  Back then people viewed the church very positively.  A family centered Church with good values.  

My kids always played with nonmembers.  At the high school, the Church kids were well respected with most of the leadership positions in the school held by members   (This was all pre prop 8).  I don't know if that has changed at the high school since then.

Prop 8 was a bump in the road, not the chasm you see swallowing the church up whole.

And California boy does not live in California. Interesting.

Edited by mfbukowski

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8 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Now I understand why you like Oregon so much, especially the coast.

Not much in common with San Berdoo! ;)

 

The Berdoo of today is so very different than when I grew up in High School (1956 -58)... the 50's were an ideal time, like Happy Days with Ritchie and the Fonz... cruising down "E" street to see and be seen on a Sat. night... about 20 yrs ago while visiting my folks, we went over to look at the high school and I nearly wept... instead of the wide lawns leading up to the Ad Bldg and other buildings there were six foot chain link fences, and the wonderful big sign that our class installed welcoming people to Cardinal City was gone, etc., etc.  The high school that gave me so many good memories was no more... Not only that, the business districts were run down... stores boarded up, particularly along Highland Ave that was once boutique shops, specialty shops etc   No, I could never go back... my world as I loved it is gone...  only the trash lined streets echo what once was...

GG 

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We don't live in Utah, so our ward boundaries are big. Our kids play with both members and non members. There are kids who are members who I don't let my kids play with because I feel they are a bad example. I don't think this is an issue; however, I am sure there are some members who only let their kids play with other members (a very small number). 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Garden Girl said:

The Berdoo of today is so very different than when I grew up in High School (1956 -58)... the 50's were an ideal time, like Happy Days with Ritchie and the Fonz... cruising down "E" street to see and be seen on a Sat. night... about 20 yrs ago while visiting my folks, we went over to look at the high school and I nearly wept... instead of the wide lawns leading up to the Ad Bldg and other buildings there were six foot chain link fences, and the wonderful big sign that our class installed welcoming people to Cardinal City was gone, etc., etc.  The high school that gave me so many good memories was no more... Not only that, the business districts were run down... stores boarded up, particularly along Highland Ave that was once boutique shops, specialty shops etc   No, I could never go back... my world as I loved it is gone...  only the trash lined streets echo what once was...

GG 

Yes I know the feeling.

That is happening throughout so cal of late- it is falling apart

When you don't follow the plan of happiness the inevitable result is.... sadness.

You should see downtown LA.   Or maybe you shouldn't.  It is one huge tent city even fittingly encompassing City Hall.  City Hall is now appropriately on skid row.  Rats and typhoid fever infest the "community"

https://newspunch.com/la-city-hall-infested-rats-human-feces-filth/

 

Edited by mfbukowski
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Posted (edited)
On 8/13/2019 at 10:06 AM, mfbukowski said:

Prop 8 was a bump in the road, not the chasm you see swallowing the church up whole.

And California boy does not live in California. Interesting.

I am just relating what my adult children have told me.  I don't know how much affect Prop 8 had on attitudes towards members of the Church.  Is all I know is that their experience as adults living in California seem to be much different than when they were growing up. 

What makes you think I don't live in California?  Where do you think I live?

Edited by california boy

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On 8/12/2019 at 6:20 AM, california boy said:

This was my experience in high school as well.  I appreciated the fact that they understood and respected my values.  

Perhaps things have changed in California a bit since those days.  My adult children tell me that they have experienced prejudice against them for being Mormon.  We didn't really talk about what that entailed, but certainly different than how the Church was viewed in California when I was growing up.  Back then people viewed the church very positively.  A family centered Church with good values.  

My kids always played with nonmembers.  At the high school, the Church kids were well respected with most of the leadership positions in the school held by members   (This was all pre prop 8).  I don't know if that has changed at the high school since then.

The entire tone of this post led me to believe you no longer live in California.

Past tense. 

You no longer know what is happening in California unless you talk to your adult kids

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, california boy said:

I am just relating what my adult children have told me.  I don't know how much affect Prop 8 had on attitudes towards members of the Church.  Is all I know is that their experience as adults living in California seem to be much different than when they were growing up. 

What makes you think I don't live in California?  Where do you think I live?

And even here you don't know about attitudes in California except from your grown kids.

If you live in California you would know.

I have no clue where you live nor do I care. I was just going by the tone of your posts.

Edited by mfbukowski

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4 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

And even here you don't know about attitudes in California except from your grown kids.

If you live in California you would know.

I have no clue where you live nor do I care. I was just going by the tone of your posts.

My guess is he is wording the way he words because his kids are "members of the Church" and he no longer is, either because he really isn't a member or no longer considers himself a member, though which doesn't really matter. He is just sharing that he can't first hand report what it is like to be a member in CA, but his kids tell him what it is like.

I may totally off on that, but no where did I get the idea from him that he is no longer there. 

 

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6 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

The entire tone of this post led me to believe you no longer live in California.

Past tense. 

You no longer know what is happening in California unless you talk to your adult kids

I don't think it is wise to make assumptions about others and then speculate based on those assumptions.  You basically accused me of deceiving everyone on where I live.  I found that pretty offensive, now only to discover you made that statement based entirely on an erroneous assumption.  I do live in California.  

How the Church is viewed by many of my friends may very well be distorted and bias because they know I am no longer a member and they express to me very directly that Prop 8 was indeed a very big deal to them and the role the Church played in that has not been forgotten.  They view the Church as being very anti gay. Those actions clearly overshadow the pro family PR campaign that the Church once ran.  Not so pro family if it is a gay family.

My children probably live in a less bias environment in California .  So to be fair, I was using their perspective as being less bias and perhaps more how the majority of Californians view the Church.  Specifically, I was talking to my kids about how much I love living in San Francisco, where people really don't care what race you are or orientation you are or religion you are.  That is when they told me that perhaps I am mistaken about not caring what religion they are.  Their experience is that people make assumptions when you say you are Mormon.   They have experienced prejudice against them as adults that they never experienced growing up simply because they are Mormon.

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1 hour ago, Rain said:

My guess is he is wording the way he words because his kids are "members of the Church" and he no longer is, either because he really isn't a member or no longer considers himself a member, though which doesn't really matter. He is just sharing that he can't first hand report what it is like to be a member in CA, but his kids tell him what it is like.

I may totally off on that, but no where did I get the idea from him that he is no longer there. 

 

Exactly.  i honestly don't get people on this board that make assumptions and then accuse others of being deceitful based on nothing other than their erroneous assumptions.  Mark is not the only one that has done this in the past week, nor is it the only time he has done this to me about what I have said.  

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, california boy said:

You basically accused me of deceiving everyone on where I live.  I found that pretty offensive, now only to discover you made that statement based entirely on an erroneous assumption.  I do live in California.  

Oh my gosh. Sorry and goodbye.

Nobody cares where you live. You don't disclose your name what's the difference?

I would not possibly find that offensive in any way so if it offended you I am deeply sorry. Genuinely so.

It was intended as kind of a goof but obviously has gotten out of control.

Edited by mfbukowski

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3 hours ago, Rain said:

My guess is he is wording the way he words because his kids are "members of the Church" and he no longer is, either because he really isn't a member or no longer considers himself a member, though which doesn't really matter. He is just sharing that he can't first hand report what it is like to be a member in CA, but his kids tell him what it is like.

I may totally off on that, but no where did I get the idea from him that he is no longer there. 

 

Good point it was an erroneous assumption. I did not read it that way.

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