New suicide data

[Avatar4321]

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900069533/guest-opinion-the-church-and-lgbt-youth-suicide-inaccurate-claims-may-do-more-harm-than-good.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Not seeing it elsewhere but I thought it was interesting. The title says alot:

"Inaccurate claims may do more harm than good"

[USU78]

Question:  LGBT/LGBTQ is a political construct.  I cannot accept without some evidence that each letter/group in that there soup has the same risk factors in re suicide/suicidal ideation.

Does the L youth have the same percentage likelihood of ideation/acting out as the G youth, for example.

I likewise found it fascinating that combining LGBT/LGBTQ and atheism/agnosticism created such a deadly cocktail.  Nearly 80%?  My word!

Edited July 30, 2019 by USU78

[Storm Rider]

Seems like a lot of common sense, but the challenge, as always, is getting activists to forfeit their passion for expanding their cause in favor of protecting the lives of those they want to appear to be protecting. I don't give it much hope; this is a propaganda war and being able to tout that "the evil Mormon Church" caused the death of another LGBTQ child is too good to pass up.

Edited July 31, 2019 by Storm Rider

[smac97]

2 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900069533/guest-opinion-the-church-and-lgbt-youth-suicide-inaccurate-claims-may-do-more-harm-than-good.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Not seeing it elsewhere but I thought it was interesting. The title says alot:

"Inaccurate claims may do more harm than good"

Yep.  Too bad Wendy Montgomery and her compatriots didn't stop to think about such considerations.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

Here is a good article about misusing suicide data.  It was published by the Tribune in early 2016 (when Wendy Montgomery's false statistics were being widely reported and commented on): https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=3495255&itype=CMSID

It makes some good points.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Kenngo1969]

The final paragraph of Professor South's op-ed, linked by Smac97, above, sums up the issue succinctly:

Quote

Suicide is a major health concern for all youth in Utah, and may be a particular concern for LGBTQ youth. Recent misuse of suicide data in Utah for political purposes makes discussions about this topic more difficult. Such conversations should rely on verified information and address the hard questions about emotional and cultural experiences related to depression and suicide.

 

[Calm]

Quote

The CDC’s study of Utah found Latter-day Saint youths actually had a lower suicide risk. Regarding LGBTQ youths, the Family Foundations of Youth Development study found 44% of Latter-day Saint LGBTQ youths had seriously considered suicide compared to 47% of LGBTQ youths from other religions and 77% of Atheist/Agnostic LGBTQ youths (the national rate for LGB youth is 47.7%).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27633316/

Quote

Much of the literature on mental and physical health among religious LGB individuals has relied on small-N convenience samples. This study takes advantage of a unique, large-N, population-based dataset to test the relationship between religious identity, religious activity, and health, with a specific emphasis on Utah Mormons. In a surprising finding, Mormon LGBs report better mental health than non-Mormon LGBs, while their self-rated and physical health is not significantly different. However, there is some evidence that Mormon LGBs derive fewer health benefits from church attendance than their non-LGB Mormon counterparts. These results may nuance the conventional wisdom regarding the health dynamics of LGB individuals who identify with a conservative, heteronormative religious tradition, and plausible explanations are discussed.

PMID

 27633316 [Indexed for MEDLINE]

 

Edited July 31, 2019 by Calm

[Calm]

Just because I think we need reminders on how to talk about suicide to do good rather than harm, even if unintentional:

http://www.lgbtmap.org/file/talking-about-suicide-and-lgbt-populations.pdf

[california boy]

The biggest problem when dealing with the tendency to use statistics to support any agenda is there is no way of knowing what the orientation is of the person committing suicide.  For many, they struggle with coming to grips with their orientation in silence, by themselves. The last thing they want to have happen is for ANYONE to find out they are gay.   I hear this all the time in talking to LGBT about their young adulthood and how much they struggled growing up.  I know grown adults, that even have a partner, yet have still not come. out to their family.  .  

 For me, as a teen, I felt like I had no one to turn to to discuss this issue.  I felt like I brought dishonor upon their family simply because I was gay.  I felt like no matter how good I was or how much I tried to do everything God asked of me, in the end it would never be enough.  As a teen, it was extremely difficult to see a path forward.

The path that I though I could take was oddly, to serve a mission.  I honestly felt like if I gave 2 years of my life serving God, then when I stood before Him, and He weighted my worth, I could at least say that I sacrificed those two years.  Fortunately for me, I gained a lot of personal strength from serving a mission.  And then that promise by church leaders that if I only marry, I would become straight.  So I thought that path might work.  By the time I figured out that was not going to happen, I somehow realized I could still have a life where other things could bring me joy.  

All of this said, maturity brings wisdom and confidence in who we are.  I personally think the "It Gets Better" campaign is one of the very best messages for LGBT youth, and probably anyone struggling with who they are.  If you can just believe it gets better, then even if you choose to struggle alone, it might give you the hope you need to hang on until your own life does get better.  

[LoudmouthMormon]

2 hours ago, california boy said:

All of this said, maturity brings wisdom and confidence in who we are.  I personally think the "It Gets Better" campaign is one of the very best messages for LGBT youth, and probably anyone struggling with who they are.  If you can just believe it gets better, then even if you choose to struggle alone, it might give you the hope you need to hang on until your own life does get better.  

I believe you're correct.  I've seen half a dozen or so people just have a positive paradigm shift in their lives when they considered things in the light of "yes, my life sucks right now, but it doesn't have to keep sucking".  Truth is important, and if a statement like "oh, things aren't that bad" is an obvious baldface lie, well, nobody is doing anyone any favors by lying.

[Rivers]

On 7/31/2019 at 5:33 AM, california boy said:

The biggest problem when dealing with the tendency to use statistics to support any agenda is there is no way of knowing what the orientation is of the person committing suicide.  For many, they struggle with coming to grips with their orientation in silence, by themselves. The last thing they want to have happen is for ANYONE to find out they are gay.   I hear this all the time in talking to LGBT about their young adulthood and how much they struggled growing up.  I know grown adults, that even have a partner, yet have still not come. out to their family.  .  

 For me, as a teen, I felt like I had no one to turn to to discuss this issue.  I felt like I brought dishonor upon their family simply because I was gay.  I felt like no matter how good I was or how much I tried to do everything God asked of me, in the end it would never be enough.  As a teen, it was extremely difficult to see a path forward.

The path that I though I could take was oddly, to serve a mission.  I honestly felt like if I gave 2 years of my life serving God, then when I stood before Him, and He weighted my worth, I could at least say that I sacrificed those two years.  Fortunately for me, I gained a lot of personal strength from serving a mission.  And then that promise by church leaders that if I only marry, I would become straight.  So I thought that path might work.  By the time I figured out that was not going to happen, I somehow realized I could still have a life where other things could bring me joy.  

All of this said, maturity brings wisdom and confidence in who we are.  I personally think the "It Gets Better" campaign is one of the very best messages for LGBT youth, and probably anyone struggling with who they are.  If you can just believe it gets better, then even if you choose to struggle alone, it might give you the hope you need to hang on until your own life does get better.  

I find it very unfortunate that being gay is something that people feel they need to hide.  I wish we could have a society in which more people could just be open and honest about their sexual orientation.  If you find yourself attracted to your own gender, no need to keep it a secret.  Especially if somebody wants to date you or set you up on a date.  Its just a really important piece of information people should know about you.  That's why Facebook profiles includes a spot to say who you are "interested" in.  I think the stigma and need to hide sexual orientation is what's causing all the distress.  And once people are open about their gayness they can start making real decisions on how they want to live their lives.  And if you disagree with the Church's teaching on homosexuality, you are free to think that way find the path that makes you happy.  Let God do the judging. Simple as that. 

Edited August 2, 2019 by Rivers

[california boy]

7 hours ago, Rivers said:

I find it very unfortunate that being gay is something that people feel they need to hide.  I wish we could have a society in which more people could just be open and honest about their sexual orientation.  If you find yourself attracted to your own gender, no need to keep it a secret.  Especially if somebody wants to date you or set you up on a date.  Its just a really important piece of information people should know about you.  That's why Facebook profiles includes a spot to say who you are "interested" in.  I think the stigma and need to hide sexual orientation is what's causing all the distress.  And once people are open about their gayness they can start making real decisions on how they want to live their lives.  And if you disagree with the Church's teaching on homosexuality, you are free to think that way find the path that makes you happy.  Let God do the judging. Simple as that. 

When I think of the years of shame and guilt I felt just for being gay, I couldn't agree with you more.  I do think a lot has changed, especially in bigger cities.  More and more of the young generation couldn't care less what your orientation is.  Certainly less effort is going into snake oil "reparative therapy" which only exacerbates the problem.  When I was a patient of Dave Matheson, who was one of the leading therapists and whose practice was mostly gay Mormons and who sat right across from me telling me how he used to be gay, and I could be straight like him, finally admitted the false promise of making someone straight who is gay.  He is actually the co author of the manuel the Church used in it's efforts to make gay men straight.  He is now an out gay man.