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caspianrex

What is the DEAL w/ Denver Snuffer?

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2 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

It’s not an indication of prophethood, but it’s usually a shared trait.

Maybe. I’m thinking of a lot of other prophets who where not that way. 

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7 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Maybe. I’m thinking of a lot of other prophets who where not that way. 

Sure, Paul and others were well viewed in their society. However, generally they were at least viewed as quirky or weird after their conversion by their peers.

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46 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

Sure, Paul and others were well viewed in their society. However, generally they were at least viewed as quirky or weird after their conversion by their peers.

I think just about everyone has stuff that appears quirky to others. I got in trouble for accidentally leaving my blog link on some communications I made as an addiction recovery support missionary. One of the recipients complained to my supervisor that I appeared to be somewhat quirky. 

My site was called “Fetch the Comfy  Chair.” I removed the link. But I’m probably still quirky. 

Edited by Bernard Gui
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10 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I think just about everyone has stuff that appears quirky to others. I got in trouble for accidentally leaving my blog link on some communications I made as an addiction recovery support missionary. One of the recipients complained to my supervisor that I appeared to be somewhat quirky. 

My site was called “Fetch the Comfy  Chair.” I removed the link.

Sounds like an excellent title! Haha

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6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It is not proof but he comes across as bizarre, not just his revelations, and far too many of his revelations come from our folklore. It is like someone read Nibley and heard anecdotes in Sunday School about translation errors and decided to “reveal” them.

When Christopher Nemelka put out his "translation" of the sealed portion (he called it that), I got an electronic copy and started to read it.  It seemed well-written, in the same form of language as the Book of Mormon.  But it didn't take long before it ran off the rails.  In the first chapter of the Book of Lehi, it started talking about how Lehi was a High Priest and a member of one of the many quorums of High Priests in Jerusalem.  Oh. My. Goodness.  For some reason, he assumed that the organization of the Mosaic church in 600 BC was like the organization of the modern LDS church in SLC.  He seemed not to know that there was only one high priest in all Israel, and all the priests in Israel were of the tribe of Levi, and were specifically descendants of Aaron.  And Lehi was of Manasseh, not Levi.  It was extremely clear that Nemelka made it all up.  Of course, later he admitted this and crowed about how those dumb Mormons (the people he defrauded) were so darned gullible.

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A number of years ago I was reading at random in the History of the Church, and ran into a report of a would-be prophet who had formed his own church, rebelling against whoever it was who was the current president of the church, and he even built a fortification to which his followers gathered.  I can't remember what year it was, but had the idea it was some time in the 1860s or 70s.  Apparently he was having a rally in the parade ground of the fort and had just prophesied that none of his followers would be harmed, that they would be sustained by the Lord, when the forces besieging the fort fired a cannon at the fort.  The cannon ball flew onto the parade ground and decapitated a woman who had been listening to the sermon.  It might have been the quickest anti-fulfillment of prophecy in history.

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8 hours ago, bdouglas said:

Well, as I said, I guess weird/weirdness is in the eye of the beholder. And yes, looking into a chocolate rock would be weird——except that what we got from that chocolate rock is the BOM, perhaps the most amazing book in existence in the world today.

And so it is with polygamy also. What were the fruits of polygamy? A generation of church leaders that carried the church through its first one hundred years.

What are Mr. Snuffer's fruits? A revelation (quoted above) that is dripping with narcissism and silliness and is impossible to take seriously, and another revelation (the Gospel of John revelation) that is basically unreadable.

It's same with all of the Fundie Fruitcakes——Jim Harmston, Mauricio Berger, Glendenning, all of them. They don't have anything to show. Mr. Snuffer says, "I see and speak with the Lord regularly." But what does he have to show for this? Really nothing.

Nobody today reads the revelations of Jim Harmston or Maurice Glendenning, and in 50 years, nobody will read the silly revelations of Denver Snuffer aka David.

Revelation from the Holy Ghost leads to clarity. We see that well with President Nelson's devotional the other day.

"Revelation" from other sources leads to confusion, oddness.

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10 hours ago, SettingDogStar said:

Same. I just think we view Joseph in a different light 200 years later. Imagine a man coming up to you and then speaking in what he says is the voice of the Lord and affirming himself a place in the celestial kingdom or saying that it’s only himself that can give revelations. It’s not unlike some biblical prophets, but I bet you’d reject him immediately. 

Edit: He’s been immortalized as a prophet and his scriptures have been read so many times that it becomes modern and normal for us to hear. Back up 200 years though and it would have been a very odd sight or thing to hear, as it was. The only thing that converted people was the Spirit.

Again, im not saying Denver is right (cause he’s not) but I feel he’s being held to some different standard becuase he’s modern and Joseph has been immortalized to history.

Yeah, I do not think so. I am crazy enough that I think I would have latched on to Joseph. At first it might have been just to see what happens with him but he is not a really quirky nut. I think his ability to sincerely laugh at himself would have convinced me he was serious.

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5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

When Christopher Nemelka put out his "translation" of the sealed portion (he called it that), I got an electronic copy and started to read it.  It seemed well-written, in the same form of language as the Book of Mormon.  But it didn't take long before it ran off the rails.  In the first chapter of the Book of Lehi, it started talking about how Lehi was a High Priest and a member of one of the many quorums of High Priests in Jerusalem.  Oh. My. Goodness.  For some reason, he assumed that the organization of the Mosaic church in 600 BC was like the organization of the modern LDS church in SLC.  He seemed not to know that there was only one high priest in all Israel, and all the priests in Israel were of the tribe of Levi, and were specifically descendants of Aaron.  And Lehi was of Manasseh, not Levi.  It was extremely clear that Nemelka made it all up.  Of course, later he admitted this and crowed about how those dumb Mormons (the people he defrauded) were so darned gullible.

I didn’t catch that when i read it! Haha Did you ever finish the book? The vision he wrote that the Brother of Jared had was borderline hilarious if it wasn’t so sacrilegious.

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9 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yeah, I do not think so. I am crazy enough that I think I would have latched on to Joseph. At first it might have been just to see what happens with him but he is not a really quirky nut. I think his ability to sincerely laugh at himself would have convinced me he was serious.

I have a feeling that might be why a couple of people latches into Denver. They were already having some questions, Denver gave them some answers, so they latched on just to see what happened. I’d say that’s what happened to me but I’m not really “following” him, just intrigued because a little break off like this has never happened in my lifetime.

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5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

It was extremely clear that Nemelka made it all up.  Of course, later he admitted this and crowed about how those dumb Mormons (the people he defrauded) were so darned gullible.

When did he say that?

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2 hours ago, Judd said:
Quote

It was extremely clear that Nemelka made it all up.  Of course, later he admitted this and crowed about how those dumb Mormons (the people he defrauded) were so darned gullible.

When did he say that?

Here.

Here's a transcript of the main bit (starting at about 3:57):

Quote

Nemelka: Now, going on all this, and having read all this, and read the responses of the Mormon apologists, I did something which you guys don't know about.  Julie and Patty know about it.  I did something that finally proved to me without a shadow of a doubt what religions can do to people.  And Julie might have mentioned it to you.  I wrote the sealed portion of the Book of Mormon.  And I presented it to Mormons who are more {unintelligible} than you.  And they took it hook, line, and sinker.  {They} thought I had the Gold Plates.  And so right there I proved it myself, that indeed a man who knew what he was doing could write scripture when he had no inspiration at all, just knew what people wanted to hear.  Write the scripture, present it as such, have these people pray about it, and they accept it.

Male Audience Member: {Laughs.}

Nemelka: Now, you laugh...

Male Audience Member: I'm sorry.  It cracks me up.  

Nemelka: No, I understand...

Male Audience Member: I wonder who these people are...

Nemelka: They are fundamentalists.

Male Audience Member: And another thing, I hate to say this, I got to question your motives.

Nemelka: Exactly.

Male Audience Member: Why did you do that?  What {unintelligible} did you have to do that?

Nemelka: A good question.  Why did I do that?  

Male Audience Member: I can't understand.

Nemelka: Because most Mormons' testimonies are based on the veracity of the Book of Mormon.  Okay?  

Female Audience Member: This tape is done.  Do you have another tape?

Nemelka: That's all right.  Most people's testimony are based on that.  They read the Book of Mormon, it makes them feel good.  Man, this is great!  Have this feeling inside...

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited by smac97
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4 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Here.

Here's a transcript of the main bit (starting at about 3:57):

Thanks,

-Smac

The funny thing is his forgery is terrible, seriously. The Brazil Plates are better then this stuff!

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9 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

The funny thing is his forgery is terrible, seriously. The Brazil Plates are better then this stuff!

This, I started reading it and busted out laughing. I assumed it was a joke. Did people actually take it seriously?

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14 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

This, I started reading it and busted out laughing. I assumed it was a joke. Did people actually take it seriously?

Someone gave up their spot in a Salt Lake graveyard to advertise it. People really did!

91374114-3656-409B-BDD0-794DB0759EA6.jpeg

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7 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

Someone gave up their spot in a Salt Lake graveyard to advertise it. People really did!

91374114-3656-409B-BDD0-794DB0759EA6.jpeg

Here's a video that provides some context:

 

 

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7 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Here's a video that provides some context:

 

 

How many years of law school so he could read that statement?

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On 9/19/2019 at 5:28 PM, bdouglas said:

I once heard from a member of Elder Richard Scott’s family that, in his spare time, he would sometimes paint in the bathroom with water colors. He was an amateur artist and he sometimes did his painting in the bathroom.

This is an example of maybe a quirk. But it is not the same thing as weird. These guys like Denver Snuffer become weirdos.

Jim Harmston arguing with his followers about whether it is permissible to be in bed with more than one wife at one time is weird. John Koyle digging for years and years at the dream mine for gold when geologist Elder James Talmage said there is no gold because the mountain is gravel is weird. Going down into the basement of your home in the middle of the night and babbling away in tongues (as my relative did a couple of times) is weird. Christopher Nemelka (or Mr. Snuffer) dressing like an 1850s street preacher in NYC when it is not 1850 but 2019 is weird.

The wife of my relative who for a short time was a follower of Mr. Snuffer (and during this time went out all out to have his calling and election made sure and to “see the face of the Lord”) said something very interesting. She said, “Mike’s [not his real name] appearance even changed——and not for the good. Something about his appearance actually changed. It was actually quite alarming to me.” In other words, he began to be weird; he was on the road to becoming a weirdo.

The influence of the Holy Ghost——the real Holy  Ghost, not Satan’s imitation——does not make people weird. It does just the opposite.

Most likely he painted in the bathroom because that room had the best concentration of natural light in his house.  That's why artists build a designated art studio so they can get good light.  So, I don't think this is an example of quirkiness.  But, I agree, that some of these types do give off a 'weird' vibe.  It's probably something that our spirits are picking up on.

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On 9/20/2019 at 9:41 AM, SettingDogStar said:

Someone gave up their spot in a Salt Lake graveyard to advertise it. People really did!

91374114-3656-409B-BDD0-794DB0759EA6.jpeg

It was Ida Smith, who is now dead.  I wonder where she was buried, since she gave away this prime spot among the Smith family.  Imagine my surprise when I went to visit my loved ones' grave several years ago and found this granite billboard right next to them.  I knew about Christopher Nemelka, but didn't expect that he'd put up a headstone before he was even dead.  Nemelka claims to be the reincarnation of Hyrum Smith, that's why he has his name on the headstone also.

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On 9/19/2019 at 3:40 PM, bdouglas said:

 

 

P.S. - One unique aspect of today’s new Fundie Prophets is that they eschew polygamy. Jim Harmston didn’t, but Mr. Snuffer does, as does Mauricio Berger. How they reconcile this with JS polygamy, I don’t know. 

P.S. 2 - The member of my extended family, who followed Mr. Snuffer for a time (less than a year), is now back in the fold. “I have learned my lesson,” he said.

They do seem to reject polygamy, and some of Snuffer's followers are embracing the RLDS accusations that polygamy was introduced by Brigham Young and they also claim that Joseph died trying to stop it, they think some of the apostles were plotting against Joseph because he wanted to expose them.  That said, that doesn't mean some of them are against the idea of sex outside of marriage.  There are some who believe in Multiple mortal probations and that they were married to different people in different mortal lives.  Some who believe this also think it's okay to have relations with those they were married to in past lives, so if a couple feel a connection of some sort, it's not a sin to commit adultery or fornication.  I read about a case that was being heard by a group of remnant women against a man accused of predatory behavior(Snuffer was brought into it as well)--it got some publicity last summer and I think they called it soul bonding. 

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4 hours ago, alter idem said:

They do seem to reject polygamy, and some of Snuffer's followers are embracing the RLDS accusations that polygamy was introduced by Brigham Young and they also claim that Joseph died trying to stop it, they think some of the apostles were plotting against Joseph because he wanted to expose them.  That said, that doesn't mean some of them are against the idea of sex outside of marriage.  There are some who believe in Multiple mortal probations and that they were married to different people in different mortal lives.  Some who believe this also think it's okay to have relations with those they were married to in past lives, so if a couple feel a connection of some sort, it's not a sin to commit adultery or fornication.  I read about a case that was being heard by a group of remnant women against a man accused of predatory behavior(Snuffer was brought into it as well)--it got some publicity last summer and I think they called it soul bonding. 

Snuffer, at least openly, does not believe or teach this soul-bonding business. In fact his doctrines rail against it mostly.

However, I would like some info on that trial thing? I heard about it but I didn’t get much info on how Snuffer was involved.

Edited by SettingDogStar

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1 hour ago, SettingDogStar said:

Snuffer, at least openly, does not believe or teach this soul-bonding business. In fact his doctrines rail against it mostly.

However, I would like some info on that trial thing? I heard about it but I didn’t get much info on how Snuffer was involved.

The man was involved in the production of their new scriptures. I believe Snuffer got involved as. Character witness for him but it has been awhile since I read the commentary put out by the groups involved (one of the women we bought our house from, she was very into pastels and flowers).

I will try and find the thread we did discussed it on or the original documentation.

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Here is a description of the incident: 

https://bringingtolighthiddenthings.wordpress.com/2017/08/14/first-blog-post/

Snuffer sounds like he was pressuring the women to protect his friend and the project. Got the sense the women saw him as dismissive of them and their concerns that a man they viewed as an adulterer and liar was supposedly receiving revelation when his priesthood was shut down. 

Edited by Calm
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