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MustardSeed

What motivates you to live the WOW?

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12 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I worry a bit about youth and even older folks who are so habituated to “energy drinks” and colas. Yes, I’m well aware that the Church doesn’t forbid their use. The Church used to discourage consumption of sodas with caffeine, however. I think the leaders stopped doing that because they got so much pushback from the rank and file. More’s the pity, in my view. 

Yes and caffeine on BYU's campus, something I never thought I'd see. 

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12 hours ago, Maidservant said:

- - - Micro-dosing is a very specific thing, and it would be done only under medical auspices. - - -

Medical professionals that might think like Dr. Timothy O Leary?  Or some that will push the edge of ethical boundaries?  My very beautiful and vivacious daughter in law was secretly using oxycontin (she claimed to have serious anxiety).  She was under the care of a "medical doctor."  She dropped dead in the shower back in 2009.  Micro dose of LSD is still a mind-bending drug.  Can anyone show what medical benefit it would have on any part of the brain?  Is it targeted to a specific site or randomly distributed over the whole brain?   It is better to put our trust in the Lord than to submit to the priestcrafts of self-serving men:

D&C 89:
4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation---
18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;
19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;
20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.
21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

12 hours ago, Maidservant said:

Ayahuasca also will not be something I do by myself in my living room.  It is a jungle trip with shamans.

I once saw a National Geographic special.  It showed South American tribesmen mixing dirt and some potent plant extracts (I forget what) and stuffing it into a blow tube.  Then that mixture was blown through the nose into the nasal cavity.  That man really got a big hit of euphoria.  Shamans can be just as self serving as some in our "very enlightened medical profession."

Edited by longview
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8 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Yes and caffeine on BYU's campus, something I never thought I'd see. 

I agree.  But at one time, leaders did state that consuming caffeine was prohibited or wrong.  They've backed away from saying that now which is one change that's already occurred.  I can see more possibly in the future (regarding tea or coffee consumption).

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4 minutes ago, ALarson said:

I agree.  But at one time, leaders did state that consuming caffeine was prohibited or wrong.  They've backed away from saying that now which is one change that's already occurred.  I can see more possibly in the future (regarding tea or coffee consumption).

I am thankful they backed off of it. I like my dr pepper. 

It's not listed in it the wow. 

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5 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

One day at the shops, the credit card of the man in front of me was repeatedly rejected, so I bought his groceries for him. The cashier said that that was very generous. I challenged her assessment. I asked her how much she spent on booze on a weekend out. 

How was that any of your business or even related to a nice compliment she extended to you?  What an odd response, IMO....

Quote

She said about $120. I pointed out that I'd spent less than $25 just then. 'Good point', she said.

Wonder what she was saying under her breath when you walked away. 😂

That's the type of preaching that I believe does absolutely no good....but who knows?  Maybe she will go cold turkey and immediately stop drinking 😛

Edited by ALarson
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34 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I worry a bit about youth and even older folks who are so habituated to “energy drinks” and colas. Yes, I’m well aware that the Church doesn’t forbid their use. The Church used to discourage consumption of sodas with caffeine, however. I think the leaders stopped doing that because they got so much pushback from the rank and file. More’s the pity, in my view. 

I’m with you and not.  I do agree that energy drinks are more dangerous than can be justified for regular use.  There’s enough data for anyone to accept that as fact. I’ll cfr if anyone needs it. 

ThAt said, I wish the church regulated less, not more.  Trust us to learn principles and govern our own lives, bury ourselves or live strong. 

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5 minutes ago, cherryTreez said:

I am thankful they backed off of it. I like my dr pepper. 

It's not listed in it the wow. 

Nor is it health food, I can tell you that after years of using that as a coffee substitute. 

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8 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Trust us to learn principles and govern our own lives, bury ourselves or live strong

Great point.

Those who have not learned this,  will.

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19 hours ago, Maidservant said:

Also I have a desire for at least one Ayahuasca experience.  But I will need to be prepared for that anyway, so if there ever comes I time I feel prepared, I will make a decision at that time of whether it impacts my membership or my standing with the Lord, and I will decide in favor of my standing with the Lord if I think there is a conflict between the two..

I occasionally see travelers going to the jungles of Peru for such an experience.  I always strongly encourage them to reconsider.  Not because it is against the WoW 😀but because it can be profoundly dangerous and life threatening.

I consult with doctors across the globe as a member of the international society of travel medicine.  One Dr. Eduardo Luna Perez-Ruibal who practices medicine in Cusco, recently shared with us that treating people with serious and fatal outcomes from Ayahuasca is something he deals with daily in his practice.  The government does nothing to intervene because it brings in huge tourism dollars.  Shamans often intentionally include cocktails that induce diarrhea and vomiting as an integral part of the experience.  People often die from dehydration.  People have died from violent outbursts which it can induce.  Psychosis is not uncommon.   There is no shortage of death stories going back 10 or more years.  The doctor stated “document well because the likelihood of a bad outcome is high”.

I understand the appeal of the promises of healing, but be aware that the outcomes are often terrible.  

Edited by pogi
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2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The Church used to discourage consumption of sodas with caffeine, however. I think the leaders stopped doing that because they got so much pushback from the rank and file. 

I believe it is more trying not to add to revelation.  In essence what happened with the Gospel Principles manual which was much more focused on scriptures than before.

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My son is always touting the great affects of using mushrooms, he doesn't use them, but has listened to podcasts etc. that they may be in the future to treat people with various symptoms, such as mental conditions etc. Probably in very small doses. Boy life has certainly changed since the days of think marijuana and mushrooms were terrible drugs. Which I guess they can be, but if used appropriately sound much better than antidepressants and opioids to me. 

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2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Nor is it health food, I can tell you that after years of using that as a coffee substitute. 

Most things people eat are not health food. 

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21 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I should admit - I'm not as healthy as I could be.  I eat a lot of sugar, can't seem to go a day without treating myself.  I'd be a hypocrite if I allowed anyone to think I treat my body with respect perfectly. I don't. 

I broke the WOW all weekend long, chicken, ribs, hamburgers and steak....all forbidden except for certain times.

12 Yea, aflesh also of bbeasts and of the fowls of the air, I, the Lord, have ordained for the use of man with thanksgiving; nevertheless they are to be used csparingly;

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.

However, I washed it down with several mild barley drinks which are permitted (beer). 

17.......and barley for all useful animals, and for mild drinks, as also other grain.

So don't beat yourself up!!!

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21 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I have it on good authority that everyone who leaves the church becomes a heroin addict. This is, of course, untrue. A small but significant minority become opium fiends instead.

The church has approved prescription opioids and medical marijuana so you always have those available.

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2 minutes ago, snowflake said:

13 And it is pleasing unto me that they should not be aused, only in times of winter, or of cold, or bfamine.

Remove that comma and you end up with the Lord saying that He is displeased when we only use them in the winter. Not sure if that comma was there before or if it was ever interpreted that way. It's funny to think though that we take one part of the WoW so seriously that a little coffee (the devils bean juice) can get you locked out of the Temple but over eating meat isn't gonna do a thing. 

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4 hours ago, ALarson said:

How was that any of your business or even related to a nice compliment she extended to you?  What an odd response, IMO....

Wonder what she was saying under her breath when you walked away. 😂

That's the type of preaching that I believe does absolutely no good....but who knows?  Maybe she will go cold turkey and immediately stop drinking 😛

Hu.  I didn’t read this as criticism of her spending habits on alcohol but as an observation of relativity. Like, eh, my efforts here to help are pretty small potatoes in the grand scheme. 

But I also see your point :)

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2 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Hu.  I didn’t read this as criticism of her spending habits on alcohol but as an observation of relativity. Like, eh, my efforts here to help are pretty small potatoes in the grand scheme. 

But I also see your point :)

It just seems like a judgmental comment and something that is none of his business, IMO.  Why not ask how much she spends on going to movies or ball games?  That would seem less offensive.  But, she certainly seemed to handle it well and hopefully understood the relativity part 👍.

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3 hours ago, pogi said:

I occasionally see travelers going to the jungles of Peru for such an experience.  I always strongly encourage them to reconsider.  Not because it is against the WoW 😀but because it can be profoundly dangerous and life threatening.

I consult with doctors across the globe as a member of the international society of travel medicine.  One Dr. Eduardo Luna Perez-Ruibal who practices medicine in Cusco, recently shared with us that treating people with serious and fatal outcomes from Ayahuasca is something he deals with daily in his practice.  The government does nothing to intervene because it brings in huge tourism dollars.  Shamans often intentionally include cocktails that induce diarrhea and vomiting as an integral part of the experience.  People often die from dehydration.  People have died from violent outbursts which it can induce.  Psychosis is not uncommon.   There is no shortage of death stories going back 10 or more years.  The doctor stated “document well because the likelihood of a bad outcome is high”.

I understand the appeal of the promises of healing, but be aware that the outcomes are often terrible.  

Thank you for your firsthand perspective.  (I was aware of the purging aspect.)

5 hours ago, longview said:

Medical professionals that might think like Dr. Timothy O Leary?  Or some that will push the edge of ethical boundaries?  My very beautiful and vivacious daughter in law was secretly using oxycontin (she claimed to have serious anxiety).  She was under the care of a "medical doctor."  She dropped dead in the shower back in 2009.  Micro dose of LSD is still a mind-bending drug.  Can anyone show what medical benefit it would have on any part of the brain?  Is it targeted to a specific site or randomly distributed over the whole brain?   It is better to put our trust in the Lord than to submit to the priestcrafts of self-serving men:

D&C 89:
4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation---
18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;
19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;
20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.
21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

 

5 hours ago, longview said:

euphoria

This is not my purpose whatsoever. I believe that the quest for ecstasy and bliss as the primary quest of life modifies many human's decision making for the worse, regardless of whether that quest has to do with substances or anything in life.

 

5 hours ago, longview said:

Shamans can be just as self serving as some in our "very enlightened medical profession."

Sure, anyone can.  It would be on me to find the best help for any method of healing I wished to pursue of any kind.  And there is always the chance in our society to be mistaken in who we trust for help even after all the research we can do.

Edited by Maidservant
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9 minutes ago, ALarson said:

It just seems like a judgmental comment and something that is none of his business, IMO.  Why not ask how much she spends on going to movies or ball games?  That would seem less offensive.  But, she certainly seemed to handle it well and hopefully understood the relativity part 👍.

If she knew he was lds, certainly that could absolutely be seen as critical! 

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5 hours ago, longview said:

Micro dose of LSD is still a mind-bending drug.  Can anyone show what medical benefit it would have on any part of the brain?  Is it targeted to a specific site or randomly distributed over the whole brain?   It is better to put our trust in the Lord than to submit to the priestcrafts of self-serving men:

I wouldn’t rule out all “mind bending” drugs as valid treatments  for certain conditions.  A version of the club drug called Special K (ketamine) has been proven to be a miracle drug for many dealing with severe depression - an instant cure where other traditional treatments have failed.  It is awesome because of its quick results and continuous use is not needed.

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5 hours ago, longview said:

Medical professionals that might think like Dr. Timothy O Leary?  Or some that will push the edge of ethical boundaries?  My very beautiful and vivacious daughter in law was secretly using oxycontin (she claimed to have serious anxiety).  She was under the care of a "medical doctor."  She dropped dead in the shower back in 2009.  Micro dose of LSD is still a mind-bending drug.  Can anyone show what medical benefit it would have on any part of the brain?  Is it targeted to a specific site or randomly distributed over the whole brain?   It is better to put our trust in the Lord than to submit to the priestcrafts of self-serving men:

D&C 89:
4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation---
18 And all saints who remember to keep and do these sayings, walking in obedience to the commandments, shall receive health in their navel and marrow to their bones;
19 And shall find wisdom and great treasures of knowledge, even hidden treasures;
20 And shall run and not be weary, and shall walk and not faint.
21 And I, the Lord, give unto them a promise, that the destroying angel shall pass by them, as the children of Israel, and not slay them. Amen.

I had a reply to this, but the program keeps giving me a 403, so I'm not sure what I'm writing that is not getting past censors.  lol  So check back if I get it edited properly.

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Posted (edited)

 my reply to Brother longview that wasn't getting past censors, edited:

These are good questions that one can ask about any medical doctor or health professional, and about any substance offered as a drug treatment.  I've never said I wouldn't ask them.  In fact, I think I implied I would do take a step like this only after a great deal of study and direction from the Lord.  As a rule, I'm actually rather suspicious of the medical establishment and the drugs offered, so there is usually a bigger hurdle for me to reach a state of trust.  I have some prescription drug and medical treatment horror stories; and some prescription drug and medical treatment 'hallelujah' stories (even when others may have had horror stories). But there is the societal implication that if offered by the medical establishment, that studying has been done; although I agree with you, I still do my own.

All drugs used for mood therapy have effect on the mind; that is the point.  All drugs are helpful only in the dose that is appropriate for the condition; one should never take more than what is medically appropriate.  Micro-dosing LSD is done in a dose that deliberately avoids a trip (not wanted).  Right now I don't know of wide spread micro-dosing LSD practice in the medical establishment (and perhaps none at all yet) precisely because I don't think its cost/benefit has been proven.  I personally have only heard about the possibility on YouTube, and I agree with you that this is not anywhere near enough support for me to take action and is just as likely propaganda.  But what has been said is promising to me, if it can be borne out by (medical) studies, and I look forward to seeing if anything comes of it.  Or perhaps it will all just go away.

I am not trying to convince you.  I know you have your experiences and conclusions.  But since you seem to be trying to convince me, I'm replying in terms of myself and where I'm at with it.  I'm finding myself defending the issue here far beyond what I care about it in actuality.

Edited by Maidservant
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22 minutes ago, Maidservant said:

I am not trying to convince you.  I know you have your experiences and conclusions.  But since you seem to be trying to convince me, I'm replying in terms of myself and where I'm at with it.  I'm finding myself defending the issue here far beyond what I care about it in actuality.

Sorry about that.  You know your body and I know next to nothing of your life experience.  Wish you the best in finding what is right for you!

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8 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You upbraided her after she had complimented you on your generosity, and she then said you made a good point? Sounds like a very longsuffering cashier! 

 

7 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Yeah, she probably said “good point” to get them to go away. I know when I give a compliment I am annoyed when someone downplays it. I imagine I would be even more annoyed if they took it as an opportunity to make their action look insignificant by comparing it to my actions to make me look worse.

Not being insulting to a service person who is required to be polite and put up with you is not political correctness. It is basic decency.

 

7 hours ago, ALarson said:

How was that any of your business or even related to a nice compliment she extended to you?  What an odd response, IMO....

Wonder what she was saying under her breath when you walked away. 😂

That's the type of preaching that I believe does absolutely no good....but who knows?  Maybe she will go cold turkey and immediately stop drinking 😛

Wow, that may be the last time I report a truncated version of a long, friendly, edifying conversation ... :rolleyes:

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