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MustardSeed

What motivates you to live the WOW?

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I abstain because God told us to do that and it has been put in the scriptures and supported by our latter-day prophets. We have been told by other prophets that it is not just a suggestion.  
It's an easy one for me though because I don't like coffee, or alcohol, or tobacco, or illegal drugs and I would not like my body to be dependent on any of these things and they can all cause an addiction to some degree.
If we did not have the WOW I suppose I might have an occasional  glass of wine with my dinner, but that's about it. 

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I smoked marijuana for a period of time in middle school. The last time I did it I was by myself. At that point I realized I didn’t even like the way it made me feel, and I like being fully in tact cognitively, so I never did it again. I’ve never had a desire to drink. I cook a lot with alcohol, but that’s about it. I used to drink Coke a lot and then decided to stop about 6 months into my mission because it was empty calories. So, I have gotten accustomed to drinking just water and prefer it that way. I occasionally drink strawberry lemonade. I have no desire to smoke. I don’t like drinking warm things (not even hot chocolate) and don’t care for the taste of coffee. Absolutely nothing would change about the letter of the WOW if I weren’t a member.

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I mainly stick to the letter of the WOW because I want my temple recommend, it’s more important for me to have access to that place then any opinion I might have on WOW. However I don’t necessarily believe that all alcohol is specifically band by the WoW and I don’t think coffee is either. It’s a principle with a promise, not a damning commandment.

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I have a friend who is on the brink of leaving the church and lately has been talking about alcohol a lot. I have no doubt that when she leaves she will likely drink. This is A woman who has been a true blue black-and-white thinker her whole life, very invested in the church.It has me thinking about my values and why I choose to live them. I honestly don’t believe I would be interested in drinking alcohol if I were for some reason to leave the church. I don’t drink because I want to be clear of mind at all times to the very best of my ability And to be honest I’m proud of my sobriety. I spend much of my life around alcoholics  and drinkers and it’s just simply not a lifestyle That appeals to me in anyway. I’m very healthy in many ways, running weight lifting juicing mindfulness exercise etc.

I also believe God wants me to be clear minded. 

I admit that I only abstain from coffee because it’s a rule for the temple. I have not come to grips with a belief that God cares much about coffee but since I have committed to Him that I won’t, He expects me to have integrity so I abstain. 

How about you? 

To begin with obedience for me was because it was counseled by God and leaders and it seemed like a good idea in general. Now obedience is because I know due to my reaction to NyQuil (worse restless legs experience of my life and I wasn’t even close to the severe and 24/7 range I have now yet) and other caffeinated products it would be very detrimental to my health plus general disgust of smoking due to seeing what it does to lungs as well as the smoke has always made me sick and even just the smell if I am pregnant or having a bad day...figure that is a good sign it isn’t healthy. 

I am grateful I grew up a member as I probably would have tried to self medicate with both coffee and alcohol before so knew what was going on (the first 40 years of my life) as I know many with my disorder do and I would likely be even worse, quite possibly dead having killed myself because of pure misery and removed inhibitions (something that is also not unknown among those who have severe symptoms).

Edited by Calm
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It is weird that she is obsessed with it unless she has already secretly started drinking. If she has not she should try it and find out if she likes it before making it a reason for leaving.

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Posted (edited)

Do you think that obeying just to obey makes someone more likely to “go off the deep end” if they decide to de -activate? 

Most people I know who have left church tend to quickly become drinkers.  Unfortunately many of them don’t know how to drink responsibly so things can get kind of crazy. 

Is it less, or more safe, to obey with principle or to just obey to be obedient? 

Edited by MustardSeed

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I started out with church/commandments reasons. Now those are all secondary.

I also don't like hot drinks. I have a low tolerance for bitter things. Putting sugar in them would just raise my sugar as a type 1 diabetic. I gave up caffeinated drinks and my kidneys started showing much better health wise.

I hate the small if smoking. I don't like all the cancer effects if tobacco.

I have too many alcoholics around me and know my nature so I feel it would be dangerous to even try. Same with drugs.

Also as a diabetic of 49 years, I've had too many episodes with low blood sugar and the way it makes me feel and not having control over myself I do not want to do that purposely with alcohol and drugs. While I understand that rx drugs are needed I avoid them if there are other things available and rarely take over the counter meds. I just don't like all the side effects.

Now I have a ways to go on the other parts of the WoW. I'm working on them, but it is slow and is taking decades of rebuilding habits and effects of causes - which is why I don't need to introduce anything into the mix like the WoW things I have never dine and all the new things coming out like energy drinks.

I just have enough to deal with without adding more. 

 

 

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I consider the monthly fast to be part of the WoW (at least in spirit).  It helps us to be more humble and introspective and to seek after the Lord.  Several years ago I became dissatisfied with missing only two meals because I was not feeling hungry enough.  So I began observing the fast over the weekend for 40 hours (symbolic of Jesus' fasting in the wilderness for 40 days).  I believe it gives the digestive system a much needed rest, to clear out toxins and hopefully give the gut culture a chance to restore the "good bacterias."

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8 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

s it less, or more safe, to obey with principle or to just obey to be obedient? 

I think it depends on the person and if they think things through or just react without much consideration. 

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14 minutes ago, Calm said:

To begin with obedience for me was because it was counseled by God and leaders and it seemed like a good idea in general. Now obedience is because I know due to my reaction to NyQuil (worse restless legs experience of my life and I wasn’t even close to the severe and 24/7 range I have now)...

I used to have horrible reactions to NyQuil and I realized it was the Sudafed. Dilated eyes, racing heart, inability to sleep, foggy brain, out of control emotions, etc. My body and Sudafed do not mix and I used to have to be really careful with cold medicine but thanks to all the people making meth now I can get most everything, even NyQuil, without it. :D 

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1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

I have a friend who is on the brink of leaving the church and lately has been talking about alcohol a lot. I have no doubt that when she leaves she will likely drink. This is A woman who has been a true blue black-and-white thinker her whole life, very invested in the church.It has me thinking about my values and why I choose to live them. I honestly don’t believe I would be interested in drinking alcohol if I were for some reason to leave the church. I don’t drink because I want to be clear of mind at all times to the very best of my ability And to be honest I’m proud of my sobriety. I spend much of my life around alcoholics  and drinkers and it’s just simply not a lifestyle That appeals to me in anyway. I’m very healthy in many ways, running weight lifting juicing mindfulness exercise etc.

I also believe God wants me to be clear minded. 

I admit that I only abstain from coffee because it’s a rule for the temple. I have not come to grips with a belief that God cares much about coffee but since I have committed to Him that I won’t, He expects me to have integrity so I abstain. 

How about you? 

Honestly, even if I wasn't an LDS Christian, I won't partake in any of those things.  They just don't appeal to me.  I've been at too many work functions where people pay lots of money to look stupid and wreck their livers -- I can look stupid without aids, thank you very much.  And I have much sweeter ways to wreck my health.  Coffee is disgusting, and I have way too many friends that are absolute slaves to it.  Smoking isn't just disgusting, smelly and wrecks your health, but it also does that to eveyone/thing else around you.  No thank you.  

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Posted (edited)

I am an addict although I have used means other than the traditional substances to numb myself in the past.  I consider myself sober and recovering.  Because of this and my alcoholic family history, I personally will never drink alcohol because I know that for me it would result pretty quickly in me being passed out in the gutter somewhere.  I went to my high school reunion this past weekend and several people were happy drunk, nothing got ugly, but I still didn't enjoy the experience of being around them.  I felt like they weren't themselves.  And I would be humiliated to personally be in that state.  I might enjoy a glass of wine or mixed drink with dinner if I thought I could manage that, but I don't trust myself to.  And I dislike the taste of beer and can't imagine hard liquor being tasty.

I am on a quest for ever greater health and I personally think, for me, that coffee has no place in that.  It challenges and poisons the body.  I don't need to add in another habit; I'm trying to release some I have (like sugar).  I do enjoy some of the taste of coffee, like mocha ice cream or tiramisu, but I already eat those things if I want them.

While I would never smoke for the same reason, I have to admit then when I walk by someone who is smoking (say outside), I try to get as close as possible and inhale as deeply as possible.

Marijuana is also something not for me.  I think great care has to be taken with it.  I know it has been a blessing for many people.  But I do not like the effect it has on the mind, and I do NOT need to chill, lol.  I think there may be situations where I might accept the peace pipe, so to speak, or some type of sacred ceremony, but I think it would take me away from what I want in life if I made a habit of it.  Plus, in a word, I think it stinks.  I wouldn't want that smell in my house or on my person.  (I do realize there are edibles, but again, I'm not a fan of the long term effect on decision making.)

Tea for the most part, I don't have a hankering for (I like herbal teas), although I would not feel the need to avoid green tea as an additive in things, as I try to be careful of now.

There are two things that I wish for that I am actually not sure if they would be prohibited by the WoW.  One is micro-dosing of LSD for behavioral and mood therapy.  If that becomes accepted medically, I think I will seek that out.  But we are a few years away from that.

Also I have a desire for at least one Ayahuasca experience.  But I will need to be prepared for that anyway, so if there ever comes I time I feel prepared, I will make a decision at that time of whether it impacts my membership or my standing with the Lord, and I will decide in favor of my standing with the Lord if I think there is a conflict between the two.

As for the positive suggestions, I am slowly becoming a high-protein vegan probably with avoiding a great deal of wheat.  So I guess that's not really WoW.  But it's what I'm going to do and have started doing.

Edited by Maidservant
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1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

How about you? 

Like you apparently, I keep it because I promised to, which is also a principle with a promise.

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I have it on good authority that everyone who leaves the church becomes a heroin addict. This is, of course, untrue. A small but significant minority become opium fiends instead.

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51 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It is weird that she is obsessed with it unless she has already secretly started drinking. If she has not she should try it and find out if she likes it before making it a reason for leaving.

Actually she is leaving because she can no longer walk the line between church and her gay family members. And I suspect she too has some sexual preference issues.  But her kids drink and I believe as she contemplated leaving the church she imagines living as her kids do, drinking being a part of that. 

 

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a) I don't like feeling stimulated, depressed or otherwise drug-addled in any way. When I was a missionary in America, a ward missionary served us an orange-flavoured soft drink that had caffeine in it. I'd never had caffeine before, and I had no idea that it could be found in non-cola beverages. I had about three glasses. Later that night, I could hear hear the blood rushing through the vessels inside my ears as I lay on my bed uncontrollably quaking and trembling. It was an awful sensation. I decided to take my pulse: 197 BPM! I woke my companion up and told him he'd need to ring the WML to come take me to hospital. Thankfully, we'd brought the half-consumed bottle of soft drink home with us, and we discovered first that it was caffeinated. He told me I'd be fine but I'd just have to let it wear off. One of the worst nights of my entire life. I can't believe people give this stuff to children ... and then wonder why they're monsters. And I will never understand why anyone would do this to him- or herself. So yeah, no coffee or tea for me ...

b) I'm a control freak. I like to feel in charge in as many areas of my life as possible. I refuse, for example, to own a car with an automatic transmission. I have zero interest in becoming habituated to substances that control me. When I was still a dirt-poor uni student, I had someone stay the night with me. I had no car, so about midnight, we had to head out on foot to find an open petrol station so that he could satisfy his caffeine fix. Why???

So yeah, I pretty much view the Word of Wisdom as exactly what its title implies.

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13 minutes ago, Maidservant said:

There are two things that I wish for that I am actually not sure if they would be prohibited by the WoW.  One is micro-dosing of LSD for behavioral and mood therapy.  If that becomes accepted medically, I think I will seek that out.  But we are a few years away from that.

Also I have a desire for at least one Ayahuasca experience.  But I will need to be prepared for that anyway, so if there ever comes I time I feel prepared, I will make a decision at that time of whether it impacts my membership or my standing with the Lord, and I will decide in favor of my standing with the Lord if I think there is a conflict between the two.

My youngest son (age 25) is an active proponent of mushrooms, cannabis, LSD and other mind altering substances.  Over a year ago he was out at night with what I call his counter-culture friends when he suddenly became extremely paranoid (he said he felt a powerful evil presence trying to smother him).  He made a straight beeline diagonally through the neighborhood (jumping over fences in the process and banging on rear sliding doors) trying to get to my house.  He jumped through his open bedroom window and sat down in the hallway quivering and crying.  Finally he called the police to get help.  When they arrived they woke me and my wife.  So he was taken to the emergency room.

Since then I would run across facebook posts and news articles about people becoming violent, psychotic, suicidal and whatever.  I would point them out to my son.  He dismissed them as propaganda.  I countered that it is Colorado government which is in favor of greater use of marijuanas in society, that conservative commentators strongly believe the system is underreporting the adverse effects among a segment of the users.  I told my son:  "It is my sincere conviction that the brain is extremely complex and very fragile.  You do NOT want to mess with it!"

Maidservant, please do not experiment with any of those drugs.

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I should admit - I'm not as healthy as I could be.  I eat a lot of sugar, can't seem to go a day without treating myself.  I'd be a hypocrite if I allowed anyone to think I treat my body with respect perfectly. I don't. 

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1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

Do you think that obeying just to obey makes someone more likely to “go off the deep end” if they decide to de -activate? 

Most people I know who have left church tend to quickly become drinkers.  Unfortunately many of them don’t know how to drink responsibly so things can get kind of crazy. 

Is it less, or more safe, to obey with principle or to just obey to be obedient? 

I think it matters what or  who they feel they are being obedient to. If God and they continue to believe in God then I don't think they will have as many problems. If, and I don't even know how to truly explain this, they feel they are just obeying a commandment and God isn't a part or much of a part of the equation then they are likely to go off the deep end.

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As someone who takes prescription amphetamines every day I think I can say with confidence:

Drugs are Nature’s Hugs!

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How might someone be blessed for keeping his or her covenants?  What blessings might God not be able to bestow on someone who does not keep his or her covenants?  Of course, if someone is not keeping covenants, chances are that s/he doesn't attach the same significance to those covenants as s/he did when they were made, so s/he doesn't see them the same way that someone who does keep them sees them, but ...

Simplest answer, although the "how" and "why" are more difficult to quantify and to articulate, is that I believe that, to the extent I do keep my covenants, I will be blessed: 

https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/power-of-covenant-keeping/

https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2016/10/26/power-of-covenant-keeping-ii/

For what they're worth.

Thanks.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I have a friend who is on the brink of leaving the church and lately has been talking about alcohol a lot. I have no doubt that when she leaves she will likely drink. This is A woman who has been a true blue black-and-white thinker her whole life, very invested in the church.It has me thinking about my values and why I choose to live them. I honestly don’t believe I would be interested in drinking alcohol if I were for some reason to leave the church. I don’t drink because I want to be clear of mind at all times to the very best of my ability And to be honest I’m proud of my sobriety. I spend much of my life around alcoholics  and drinkers and it’s just simply not a lifestyle That appeals to me in anyway. I’m very healthy in many ways, running weight lifting juicing mindfulness exercise etc.

I also believe God wants me to be clear minded. 

I admit that I only abstain from coffee because it’s a rule for the temple. I have not come to grips with a belief that God cares much about coffee but since I have committed to Him that I won’t, He expects me to have integrity so I abstain. 

How about you? 

Sure I think coffee and cigarettes are disgusting. Never a temptation. My dad did both in my early years. After he joined the Church he often apologized to mom and me for making our house smell like that, especially when he came home from union meetings. 

Scared to death of drugs and alcohol because of the chaos I have seen them create (and I probably have an addiction gene).

 I obey simply because I said I would obey. For me, it’s a matter of integrity. And I have thought a lot about it over a long time to come up with that reason. 

Edited by Bernard Gui
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10 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Because I said I would obey. 

I can start in this position, but I can't sustain it. I was one of those children who pestered my earthly parents with 'why?' questions, and I do the same with my Heavenly Father. Thankfully, He seems as patient and willing to answer as my mum and dad were.

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I can start in this position, but I can't sustain it. I was one of those children who pestered my earthly parents with 'why?' questions, and I do the same with my Heavenly Father. Thankfully, He seems as patient and willing to answer as my mum and dad were.

I get it. That’s why I said I have thought long and hard about it. 

Edited by Bernard Gui

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