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Posted (edited)

 

24 minutes ago, Amulek said:

Doing the right thing is a good in and of itself. And taking personal responsibility for one's choices / actions is part of what we generally expect people to do. 

If you had an argument with your wife and you called up a lawyer to have him put together and then deliver an apology package on your behalf, do you think that would be equally satisfactory as taking care of it personally?

Or if you were to steal something small from a store: would you take it back personally and make it right, or would you have an attorney go to the store in your stead and return the item or offer to pay for it? 

You could certainly use an intermediary for all these things, but (in my opinion) doing so would be a bit of a cop-out.

I think leaving the church is kind of in the same ballpark.

Your post is case in point why the church’s method is unreasonable . To you leaving the church is equal to doing something wrong (like theft or fighting with my wife) and I “owe” them a good showing. Wow! I do agree with your assessment. Meeting with the bishop on his terms does seem like an admission of doing something wrong. Hence the desire to resign on my own terms!

 

 

Edited by SeekingUnderstanding
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20 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

 

For the record, @Scott Lloyd‘s words are his own and represent a very uncharitable (but characteristic for him) reading of what I said. 

Yes, I understand that.

I also respect your right to resign and do so on your own terms and for your own reasons.  Thanks for you honesty here.

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6 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Your post is case in point why the church’s method is unreasonable . To you leaving the church is equal to doing something wrong (like theft or fighting with my wife) and I “owe” them a good showing. 

While I happen to believe that leaving the church is wrong, that's not the point I was making.

I was making the point that some things ought to be handled personally rather than by using an intermediary.

It's really not that difficult of a position to grasp.

 

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Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, ALarson said:

So, you pile on here before you even know anything about this attorney because he happens to have a mug with his name and logo on it for sale?   I honestly wouldn't have thought I'd see this from you (just being honest because I love reading your post here that are insightful and fair). 

If Miserere Nobis thinks that a firm's "legal advice" should be, "You don't need us (or anyone else as an intermediary) to do that.  It's simple, and you can handle it yourself.  Here's how you go about it" (or simply, "We don't handle that.  Perhaps we could refer you to someone else (or not)") he's entitled to that opinion.  I don't think there's anything that's not insightful or that's unfair about that.
 

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I posted about him above, but here's what some of his clients have to say about him: [Snip]

 

 

I'm not saying that's what's happened in this case, but (and I'm not interested in having a 500-post discussion on this single matter alone), theoretically, I could go to the Web sites of a couple hundred attorneys I know and post five-star reviews, too (or one-star reviews, for that matter).

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And there's over a hundred more giving him high reviews and praise.

That's nice. 

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I get that many here disagree with him offering the resignation help for free, but it's something he believes in.

It's my sincere belief that posters who disagree with me should be drawn and quartered, disemboweled, and their remains incinerated.  Same result?  (Just checking!)

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I can understand some of why this happened too because I have heard nightmare stories regarding members trying to resign on their own.

Yep.  Lots of stories out there.  Some of 'em might even be true! ;)

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Of course most Bishops handle the resignations in a great manner, but that's not always been the case.  Most I know who used the legal service did so simply because they did not want to deal with turning paper work into their local authorities, a personal contact, and a longer wait. 

Yep.  Lots of stories out there.  Some of 'em might even be true! ;)

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I think we should respect their choice and also not trash the attorney who's offered to help them.  That's just my opinion, but I'm sad to see that this thread has devolved into personal attacks.

Personal attacks?

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Oh. :huh:

Wait. :unknw:

You're serious, aren't you.

Sorry.

My bad.

If someone were to seek my career advice and were to say (in essence: I doubt anyone would admit this outright), "I'd like to become a lawyer, but I'm a thin-skinned Snowflake whose mommy thinks his crap smells like roses, and I tend to curl up in a ball in the corner sobbing anytime someone even looks at me funny," I might say, "Well, there's always transactional work."  More likely, I'll say, "That's nice.  I hear McDonald's is hiring."

NOW, WOULD EVERYONE JUST QUIT IT WITH THE PERSONAL ATTACKS?!

 

Edited by Kenngo1969
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Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, Amulek said:

While I happen to believe that leaving the church is wrong, that's not the point I was making.

I was making the point that some things ought to be handled personally rather than by using an intermediary.

It's really not that difficult of a position to grasp.

 

Then why did your only examples consist of an individual wrong doer making amends for his/her transgression?

Edited by SeekingUnderstanding
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7 minutes ago, Amulek said:

While I happen to believe that leaving the church is wrong, that's not the point I was making.

I was making the point that some things ought to be handled personally rather than by using an intermediary.

It's really not that difficult of a position to grasp.

All who resign have their own personal choice to do it in the manner that works best for them.  The end result is the same for the church and for them.  There are different options and one will suit some better than the other. 

It’s really not difficult to grasp that neither one of these options are definitely right or wrong and it’s personal for them.  You can have your belief that it’s wrong to choose the attorney method, but that doesn’t make that a fact.  

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10 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Thanks for your candor. And thanks for bearing out my impression that I’ve tried to convey here:  that using this lawyer’s services to resign from the Church is tantamount to extending your middle finger at the Church. I hope ALarson and JulieM are paying attention. 

I’ll talk to my friend who resigned for entirely different reasons and motivation to see if she (or her husband) will register and post.

If they do, can I then post “thanks for bearing out my impression that I’ve tried to convey here:  that using this lawyer’s services to resign from the Church is not tantamount to extending your middle finger at the Church. I hope Scott Lloyd is paying attention.”

😝

 

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10 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Thanks for your candor. And thanks for bearing out my impression that I’ve tried to convey here:  that using this lawyer’s services to resign from the Church is tantamount to extending your middle finger at the Church. I hope ALarson and JulieM are paying attention. 

Black and white thinking here?

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11 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

If Miserere Nobis thinks that a firm's "legal advice" should be, "You don't need us (or anyone else as an intermediary) to do that.  It's simple, and you can handle it yourself.  Here's how you go about it" (or simply, "We don't handle that.  Perhaps we could refer you to someone else (or not)") he's entitled to that opinion.  I don't think there's anything that's not insightful or that's unfair about that.

Who are you quoting above, Ken?

Here are MN’s actual words:

“Sounds like he’s a step or two below personal injury lawyers....”
 
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1 minute ago, JulieM said:

Who are you quoting above, Ken?

Here are MN’s actual words:

“Sounds like he’s a step or two below personal injury lawyers....”
 

I'm not interested in pursuing the matter further.  If you think I have done something inappropriate, report me. If you get me banned permanently, though I no longer spend a lot of time here, I'll have that much more time to spend in pursuits that are actually ... Oh, I dunno :unknw: ... worthwhile!  And yes, if Miserere Nobis thinks that this lawyer isn't much more than a publicity hound (if he's that) I happen to agree with him.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Resigning from the Church in the conventional way is registering disagreement with it. Lawyering up to do it is adding a level of hostility that strikes me as uncalled for. 

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, Scott.  But not all who choose that method fit your description.

But I’m sure you know that!

This is not an all or nothing, black or white issue.  There are many thousand involved with many reasons for making the decision to resign and who have different emotions involved.  

Edited by JulieM
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