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Duncan

The no ward mission leaders change

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Our ward still has a ward mission leader but i've noticed that other wards are going to the no ward mission leader situation. I have noticed some things that have gone on that aren't positive but what has your experience been like if your ward got rid of the WML?

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I think the intent is to shift the responsibility to the Elder’s Quorum and Relief Society Presidencies and to help in wards with few or few strong members. We moved the Ward Mission Leader into the Elder’s Quorum Presidency and his wife into the equivalent position in Relief Society to try to simplify it. If you have the members and someone to do it I would go for it. If you do not I would not force it.

Correlation meetings are rare right now and we are trying to fix that. If I had my way most of them would be by Skype and just be a weekly check in of what the missionaries need during the week with a written report to the Presidencies of what they need from the ward in terms of help with investigators for ward council but we are fighting inertia and the idea that we have to assemble in person for every meeting.

My bishop is toying with bring the WML calling back. I am opposed to the idea. We can’t fill all the callings we need to fill with strong members already. Why increase the shortfall?

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We still have one, but with the EQ and RS counselors also being in charge it's made it kind of a mess with too many people all trying to basically do the same job.

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We have our WML but he doesn't do much so the councillor in the EQP is somewhat doing it but it's 3 EQP people doing the work of 6 (with the release of the High Priest leadership) and now the duties of the WML is on the councillor, who already has enough to do. I say keep the calling because now it's all this stuff do for 3 people but then you have people who have nothing to do, so what is the advantage of that? burdening 3 when others are sitting around. The lived experience is people getting baptized that we don't know who they are, we rarely have ward council mtgs and no one from the missionaries is in attendance so we don't know what is going on. The Bishopric in our ward is , hate to say it but uber lazy. I am hoping things are better elsewhere.

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21 minutes ago, Duncan said:

We have our WML but he doesn't do much so the councillor in the EQP is somewhat doing it but it's 3 EQP people doing the work of 6 (with the release of the High Priest leadership) and now the duties of the WML is on the councillor, who already has enough to do. I say keep the calling because now it's all this stuff do for 3 people but then you have people who have nothing to do, so what is the advantage of that? burdening 3 when others are sitting around. The lived experience is people getting baptized that we don't know who they are, we rarely have ward council mtgs and no one from the missionaries is in attendance so we don't know what is going on. The Bishopric in our ward is , hate to say it but uber lazy. I am hoping things are better elsewhere.

Sounds like you guys need to be having WC way more often.  We meet 3 times a month, and the missionaries are asked to be there.  Discussing missionary work takes up the majority of our meeting time (sometimes more than 30 minutes) and we aren't even activbely teaching anyone from our ward right now.    

You could always suggest those kinds of changes at your next WC I suppose.

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21 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Sounds like you guys need to be having WC way more often.  We meet 3 times a month, and the missionaries are asked to be there.  Discussing missionary work takes up the majority of our meeting time (sometimes more than 30 minutes) and we aren't even activbely teaching anyone from our ward right now.    

You could always suggest those kinds of changes at your next WC I suppose.

I think we've had like 4 since the beginning of the year😮 I suggest all kinds of things to my bishopric brother but he shrugs it off or has no idea or whatever so maybe more direct approach is better😎 

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2 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I think we've had like 4 since the beginning of the year😮 I suggest all kinds of things to my bishopric brother but he shrugs it off or has no idea or whatever so maybe more direct approach is better😎 

Wow, that’s bad. I’d definitely speak to the bishop about it. Does it say in Handbook 2 how often they should be held?

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6 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Wow, that’s bad. I’d definitely speak to the bishop about it. Does it say in Handbook 2 how often they should be held?

he told me he hasn't been to a Bishopric training meeting in over a year, so i'd be surprised if he knew! hahahahhahaha! apparently the email for these training meetings get sent out the day before the meeting, well, if you have plans then the meeting takes a back seat. We definately need a shakeup of some kind. Out HC over our ward got released a couple of months ago and my brother doesn't know who the new one is, maybe one isn't assigned? or if they have been they aren't coming to anything and making their presence known

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Just now, Duncan said:

Out HC over our ward got released a couple of months ago and my brother doesn't know who the new one is, maybe one isn't assigned? or if they have been they aren't coming to anything and making their presence known

This isn't in the ward directory?

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1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Sounds like you guys need to be having WC way more often.  We meet 3 times a month, and the missionaries are asked to be there.  Discussing missionary work takes up the majority of our meeting time (sometimes more than 30 minutes) and we aren't even activbely teaching anyone from our ward right now.    

You could always suggest those kinds of changes at your next WC I suppose.

Yeah, we do four times a month. Our only break is Fifth Sunday and occasional other breaks like Christmas and Mother’s Day.

We probably spend 10 minutes on missionary work but we spend about 30 on recent converts and those we believe or know are in trouble. The other 20 is for admin and making sure every organization can ask questions and seek counsel.

43 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I think we've had like 4 since the beginning of the year😮 I suggest all kinds of things to my bishopric brother but he shrugs it off or has no idea or whatever so maybe more direct approach is better😎 

Whenever I worry about my ward’s problems I can always look to yours and then I don’t feel so bad. ;) 

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1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Yeah, we do four times a month. Our only break is Fifth Sunday and occasional other breaks like Christmas and Mother’s Day.

We probably spend 10 minutes on missionary work but we spend about 30 on recent converts and those we believe or know are in trouble. The other 20 is for admin and making sure every organization can ask questions and seek counsel.

Whenever I worry about my ward’s problems I can always look to yours and then I don’t feel so bad. ;) 

ahhahhahhahahhahhahahhaha! we still have christmas lights up🎅

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

 

This isn't in the ward directory?

I just checked our online directory, we have 10 High Councilors, with one of them inactive

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3 hours ago, Duncan said:

I just checked our online directory, we have 10 High Councilors, with one of them inactive

 I am tempted to move to your area to try and help.

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28 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

 I am tempted to move to your area to try and help.

don't bring christmas lights!

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7 hours ago, The Nehor said:

If I had my way most of them would be by Skype and just be a weekly check in of what the missionaries need during the week with a written report to the Presidencies of what they need from the ward in terms of help with investigators for ward council but we are fighting inertia and the idea that we have to assemble in person for every meeting.

Where two or three are gathered together virtually...

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Ward just split.  New ward at least 20 percent smaller than the last.  Released from the bishopric to become the ward mission leader by the same bishop.  Working with the missionaries has gotten harder through time.  Twenty years ago we were supposed to feed the missionaries to help keep down costs, then only if an investigator is present and now never since they are supposed to be “finding” between 5-730pm.  The members really don’t know the missionaries.  Honestly, I think we have just gotten used to them not being in our homes.  They are supposed to be going to members homes between 8-9 to fellowship with them.  A lot of other rules exist  that aren’t in the handbook, but seem to be mission specific.  Maybe the new handbook will have some updates.  I want to have a better attitude, but I am dreading being the ward mission leader.  I may end up being the second counselor in the Elders quorum as we don’t have enough priesthood to fill all of the callings and so would do both callings which is kind of like having the counselor in the Elders quorum doing the WML job.  

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On 7/1/2019 at 10:46 AM, Duncan said:

Our ward still has a ward mission leader but i've noticed that other wards are going to the no ward mission leader situation. I have noticed some things that have gone on that aren't positive but what has your experience been like if your ward got rid of the WML?

We had an area training that puts wmls back in the forefront.

They're not going anywhere 

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On 7/1/2019 at 10:55 AM, The Nehor said:

I think the intent is to shift the responsibility to the Elder’s Quorum and Relief Society Presidencies and to help in wards with few or few strong members. We moved the Ward Mission Leader into the Elder’s Quorum Presidency and his wife into the equivalent position in Relief Society to try to simplify it. If you have the members and someone to do it I would go for it. If you do not I would not force it.

Correlation meetings are rare right now and we are trying to fix that. If I had my way most of them would be by Skype and just be a weekly check in of what the missionaries need during the week with a written report to the Presidencies of what they need from the ward in terms of help with investigators for ward council but we are fighting inertia and the idea that we have to assemble in person for every meeting.

My bishop is toying with bring the WML calling back. I am opposed to the idea. We can’t fill all the callings we need to fill with strong members already. Why increase the shortfall?

Wow. That’s a heavy load for one family.

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1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Wow. That’s a heavy load for one family.

Yeah.....they have handled it so far. I like to think it makes easier as it is easier to coordinate.

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10 hours ago, readstoomuch said:

Ward just split.  New ward at least 20 percent smaller than the last.  Released from the bishopric to become the ward mission leader by the same bishop.  Working with the missionaries has gotten harder through time.  Twenty years ago we were supposed to feed the missionaries to help keep down costs, then only if an investigator is present and now never since they are supposed to be “finding” between 5-730pm.  The members really don’t know the missionaries.  Honestly, I think we have just gotten used to them not being in our homes.  They are supposed to be going to members homes between 8-9 to fellowship with them.  A lot of other rules exist  that aren’t in the handbook, but seem to be mission specific.  Maybe the new handbook will have some updates.  I want to have a better attitude, but I am dreading being the ward mission leader.  I may end up being the second counselor in the Elders quorum as we don’t have enough priesthood to fill all of the callings and so would do both callings which is kind of like having the counselor in the Elders quorum doing the WML job.  

Sounds like you live in our Puget Sound area. Some very curious rules have really isolated the missionaries from the members.

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I live in the Northwest.  The Northwest and West Area Presidency just had a broadcast that I am listening to right this very moment. We really are isolated from the missionaries.  There is quite a bit of talk about working together, seeing new investigators within 48 hours of their first contact (bishopric or someone from the ward), and that the stake and wards hold the keys to missionary work.  The problem that I see is that we don’t hold the keys over the missionaries.  Throw in having two transfers in a row where missionaries went home for personal/medical/mental issues, differing levels of work on the missionaries part and we have trust issues with the missionaries.  I really can`t get into more details, but there is a real rupture between the members and the missionaries.  I hear about it in many areas.  Others do fine.  The better the quality of the missionary and the more they know the members the better I think it goes.  

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9 hours ago, readstoomuch said:

I live in the Northwest.  The Northwest and West Area Presidency just had a broadcast that I am listening to right this very moment. We really are isolated from the missionaries.  There is quite a bit of talk about working together, seeing new investigators within 48 hours of their first contact (bishopric or someone from the ward), and that the stake and wards hold the keys to missionary work.  The problem that I see is that we don’t hold the keys over the missionaries.  Throw in having two transfers in a row where missionaries went home for personal/medical/mental issues, differing levels of work on the missionaries part and we have trust issues with the missionaries.  I really can`t get into more details, but there is a real rupture between the members and the missionaries.  I hear about it in many areas.  Others do fine.  The better the quality of the missionary and the more they know the members the better I think it goes.  

What? The wards and stakes do not hold the keys for missionary work at all. I hope they meant metaphorical keys to help push the work forward and not priesthood keys. The Priesthood keys for missionary work are in the Mission Presidency. Local leaders get no say in how missionary work is done beyond how they work with the missionaries. A bishop or Stake President cannot, for example, forbid a missionary to baptize someone or authorize them to baptize someone (unless a missionary is baptizing a child of record for some reason).

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I swear that they said that the stake president and bishops hold the keys to missionary work in their areas.  I listened to that portion of the broadcast again.  No, we don't have the keys over the missionaries and I think they can perform a baptism in an area without approval of the stake president or bishop.  They probably shouldn`t and wouldn't do so.  The presidency also said that there should be a dedicated ward mission leader in every ward and branch, not an elders quorum counselor that acts as the ward mission leader.  You can see where this is all confusing.  

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12 hours ago, The Nehor said:

What? The wards and stakes do not hold the keys for missionary work at all. I hope they meant metaphorical keys to help push the work forward and not priesthood keys. The Priesthood keys for missionary work are in the Mission Presidency. Local leaders get no say in how missionary work is done beyond how they work with the missionaries. A bishop or Stake President cannot, for example, forbid a missionary to baptize someone or authorize them to baptize someone (unless a missionary is baptizing a child of record for some reason).

That is, perhaps changing.   I have seen the same training.  The problem is there is a conflict in who is in authority for baptismal interviews etc.  The mission president knows nothing about local- meaning VERY local, ward-level dynamics.  There needs to be more communication/sharing.

Our HC meeting will be dedicated to that this Sunday.   It is definitely a real "thing".

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13 hours ago, readstoomuch said:

I swear that they said that the stake president and bishops hold the keys to missionary work in their areas.  I listened to that portion of the broadcast again.  No, we don't have the keys over the missionaries and I think they can perform a baptism in an area without approval of the stake president or bishop.  They probably shouldn`t and wouldn't do so.  The presidency also said that there should be a dedicated ward mission leader in every ward and branch, not an elders quorum counselor that acts as the ward mission leader.  You can see where this is all confusing.  

No, both!  So the WML still leads and the EQ Counselor helps.  Remember in the olden days the HP had the responsibility for Family History, as now the EQ has responsibility for (1 counselor) Family History and (the other counselor) missionary work.  Same for the Relief society- one counselor - for each.  The EQ and RS counselor over family history should be suggesting people to call to work as Fam Hist Consultants, and administering things like which consultant is working with which family etc, assessing needs in Fam Hist, getting the word out about upcoming events etc.  Just as the counterpart with missionary responsibilities reports such things about missionary work.

And yes it WAS stated that the Stake President has the keys NOT the Mission President.   I will go back over that part and give it a second listening, but that is definitely in my notes.

The WML has DAILY required contact with missionaries as part of the calling.  The EQ and RS counselors help the WML get it done.  WML has a huge calling now under the bishop to assist the B getting it all done- the visits and reporting etc.

So just as the RS does not have keys "over" missionary work- they are, and could be, deeply involved as we all should be helping and acting as missionaries. And of course that extends to the whole Ward Council.  That is why it comes up in Ward Council.

So no confusion.   WML has major designated responsibility, under the bishop of course who is number 1, and  EQ and RS counselors- (as designated) have a secondary responsibility for missionary work.

Remember family history IS also missionary work, so it all fits in.  Spreading the gospel on both sides of the veil.

This is now being called "The Gathering".

The upshot is that missionary lessons do not convert.  Spiritual experiences convert.

That means getting the newbies into the temple, doing family history- INVOLVED in CHURCH which brings the spirit and the full conversion.

Edited by mfbukowski
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