LDS church in the news

[Stargazer]

10 minutes ago, changed said:

My new beliefs are not founded within the Bible or Christianity, but in what currently exists.  I do believe in a higher power which directs Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, and Christians alike - and leaves all religious groups with enough good to teach community, and enough evil to promote individual self-reliance.  

I hope you're happy in your newfound pantheism.

[JAHS]

Sometimes I think church critics do this on discussions boards just to simply criticize and get a rise out of the other participants.
They do not care at all about saving anyone from anything. If they did care and had real sympathy they would not use such tactics as you (MiserereNobis) have pointed out.

 

Edited June 30, 2019 by JAHS

[Stargazer]

Just now, JAHS said:

Sometimes I think church critics do this on discussions boards just to simply criticize and get a rise out of the other participants.
They do not care at all about saving anyone from anything. If they did care and had real sympathy they would not use such tactics as you have pointed out.

 

And then the point is reached at which many folks no longer care what a particular person says, because they repeat themselves endlessly and it gets tiresome.  

I've lost interest in this thread.  

[alter idem]

1 hour ago, changed said:

My new beliefs are not founded within the Bible or Christianity, but in what currently exists.  I do believe in a higher power which directs Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, and Christians alike - and leaves all religious groups with enough good to teach community, and enough evil to promote individual self-reliance.  

That's a convenient way to look at it.  If I make harsh, wide-spread condemning generalizations about others, then I can demand perfection and insist that others live up to my standards, based on my limited judgment.  And in this, I make myself God, judge and jury.

Limited judgment is a big part of the problem and why we are warned against unrighteous judgment.  Heavenly Father is the ultimate judge, he knows all, he loves us and his judgement is completely fair and just.

It sounds that you have rejected Heavenly Father and his standards, yet you are demanding that others live to your standards.  That's not logical. 

However, if we acknowledge a Heavenly Father who expects us to follow  his standards of righteous living, we must also acknowledge that he insists that we forgive others as we desire him to forgive us, because we will be judged by the standard we judged others.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I hope you're happy in your newfound pantheism.

Don't think that is the right description...."Pantheism is the belief that reality is identical with divinity,[1] or that all-things compose an all-encompassing, immanentgod." (Wiki)

Maybe a theistic universalist?  

Unitarian Universalist might be a good fit if changed would like to find a community that is more in accord with her current beliefs and principles (not saying she should leave, just saying if she wants to):

https://www.learnreligions.com/seven-principles-of-unitarian-universalism-95786

Edited June 29, 2019 by Calm

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

9 hours ago, changed said:

Nightline - ABC, last night:

https://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/prominent-lds-mom-recommended-babysitter-preyed-church-children-64035089?cid=clicksource_574_null_card_image

https://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/day-saints-member-convicted-sexual-abuse-minors-part-64035171?cid=clicksource_574_null_card_image

 

And.... in other news...

https://www.abc4.com/news/top-stories/hundreds-suffer-from-heat-exhaustion-during-youth-pioneer-trek-activity/?fbclid=IwAR0TAA-DDmLPgYrMzMp6I_4kprggi0U41acm2uKZHIEwyY2KmT4ki72OOQU

 

Just wondering how some can justify the claim "the church is led by God" in light of things like this... 

 

God has used flawed men from the beginning of time, some really, really, really, flawed men and women since Adam and Eve left the Garden of Eden. God uses men and women who are flawed and those who make mistakes, because it is all he has to work with. So we are all fallible, and some think that every time a leader speaks, it is because he just came down from the “burning bush”, with “Stone Tablets”, in his hands. If we are looking for a perfect man, without sin, who speaks to God, he has been here and gone home. But he does speak, but at times we, nor our leaders are not listen to all he has to say, or they are acting on what they think is a “Spiritual Witness”, when at time, it is pride or ego speaking. That said, for any who come forward who admit molesting a child, or using their position to rape a child, then whomever that General Authority, or Bishop, or Stake President is, they should face the same punishment, as the abuser. As an officer, I could not, nor would I look the other way, I would have to arrest any who sexually abuse a child, or anyone whom I could change with rape. Once I have done my duty, (if in my jurisdiction) and if I cannot act, I had to notify the jurisdiction that could arrest them. Then it is up to the courts, and I do not mean “Church Courts”, they have an Ecclesiastical function, but cannot make the predator be punished beyond their scope. They are supposed to notify the police, or they too can be brought up on chages. Catholic Priest may remain silent, but our Church does not operate this way, not if the follow the guidelines.   

Anyway, my two cents. 

Papa

Edited June 30, 2019 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[The Nehor]

10 hours ago, changed said:

Nightline - ABC, last night:

https://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/prominent-lds-mom-recommended-babysitter-preyed-church-children-64035089?cid=clicksource_574_null_card_image

https://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/video/day-saints-member-convicted-sexual-abuse-minors-part-64035171?cid=clicksource_574_null_card_image

 

And.... in other news...

https://www.abc4.com/news/top-stories/hundreds-suffer-from-heat-exhaustion-during-youth-pioneer-trek-activity/?fbclid=IwAR0TAA-DDmLPgYrMzMp6I_4kprggi0U41acm2uKZHIEwyY2KmT4ki72OOQU

 

Just wondering how some can justify the claim "the church is led by God" in light of things like this... 

 

Get help.

[MustardSeed]

Here’s a thought.  

If God stopped all the tragic things from happening, then what? 

Why then, stubbing your toe would feel tragic. 

Hunger pains 4 hours after your last meal would be cause for alarm. 

What would be the point if existing if we felt no negative emotions? Would we ever feel anything good? No, because everything is relative. 

It’s my opinion that God doesn’t stop or start any motion.  He’s just watching us.  And laughing. And crying. And sighing.  And rolling his eyes.  And He expects us to learn humility and honor Him. We give him credit for everything good because humble people are teachable.  But all the bad stuff? That’s our fault, solely.  Imo. 

[let’s roll]

58 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Here’s a thought.  

If God stopped all the tragic things from happening, then what? 

Why then, stubbing your toe would feel tragic. 

Hunger pains 4 hours after your last meal would be cause for alarm. 

What would be the point if existing if we felt no negative emotions? Would we ever feel anything good? No, because everything is relative. 

It’s my opinion that God doesn’t stop or start any motion.  He’s just watching us.  And laughing. And crying. And sighing.  And rolling his eyes.  And He expects us to learn humility and honor Him. We give him credit for everything good because humble people are teachable.  But all the bad stuff? That’s our fault, solely.  Imo. 

Agree.  The OP poses the question how can anyone claim the Church is led by God...as if these things would not have happened if God was leading the Church.

God is omnipotent but doesn’t use His infinite power to eliminate all suffering.  Over a million of God’s sons and daughters died of starvation over the last 12 months.  He has the power to prevent that but didn’t. Does that mean He’s not their father?

God is omniscient and all things are present to Him.  He knew of the plans regarding 9/11 and allowed them to unfold, does that mean he’s not the Father  of those who were killed, or not the Father of those who perpetrated the deadly act in the name of god?

God allowed those who were baptized by Alma and Amulek to be slaughtered and constrained them from using Divine power to stop the slaughter.

He also kept three young men thrown into a fiery furnace from being harmed.

Coming to understand  the seeming inconsistency and ambiguity in God’s actions is part of acquiring a faith that is not blind.  I’d invite the OP to review the thread on the Hafen’s book Faith Is Not Blind.

[Thinking]

You should never judge an organization by the isolated actions of a few idiots. It is appropriate to judge an organization by how it responds to those actions.

[Jane_Doe]

18 hours ago, changed said:

The point is to warn others not to trust church leadership.  False beliefs are one thing, abuse is another.

I think those who raise their hands to sustain abusers are the ones needing therapy... I wash my hands of enabling abuse with silence.  

<Writing this as survivor of sexual abuse.>

1) If you wish to crusade against pedophiles and increase protection for young ones (both of which are very noble goals), then fight against pedophiles and to increase protection for young ones!  Quit going after the boogyman, and instead fight the real villains, villains which are hiding everywhere.  Your irrational attacks against a personal boogeyman distract and make people dismiss the real fight.

2) Every survivor desperately needs therapy.  Sexual abuse is soul shattering, and it take a lot of work and theory to put it back together.  Right now, your soul is still in a million pieces, but it doesn't have to stay that way. 

Edited June 30, 2019 by Jane_Doe

[Skylla]

Thread closed.

Skylla