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BYU police of Joseph Bishop interview tape released

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ALarson said:

Once again, not a big deal....it's just difficult to have an honest discussion when someone does that. 

But, I'm moving on as I think I've made my point. :) 

Sometimes it feels like I am having a different conversation than others on the board.  Always interesting how we can see things differently.  I appreciate provoman's posts which seem to me to generally be tightly focused and this seems like more the same to me (but .I get not to others).

Good reminder to try and look at my posts and think 'where could this be misread or give the wrong emphasis?'

Edited by Calm
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28 minutes ago, jpv said:

You realize SLTrib outed Consig, not the many of us here who know who he is. 

No it did not. The news article have mentioned who is requesting/appealing for a copy of the tape/recording; the name "consig" was not used neither were other online persona names.

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3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Sometimes it feels like I am having a different conversation than others on the board.

I'm right there with you 😄

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ALarson said:

I was just reading some of the comments over on the other board about this.  Someone mentions "McKenna's new lawyers".  Has she retained someone new?

There is no new attorneys of record in PACER, 

Edited by provoman
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2 hours ago, Calm said:

Just to be clear, my hypothetical...I would consider that the minimum of a confession and if he did confess, I suspect he said more.  In no way am I claiming that is what he likely said.

I am more prone to think he didn't confess until forced to by .Denson.  She comes across as a capable, intelligent, and forceful once she gets going woman and he likely had no knowledge of her criminal background (I am thinking if she participated in anything criminal prior to her mission and the Church knew about it, that in combination with her having gotten pregnant or rather how she got pregnant, she wouldn't have been cleared for a mission) outside the threat made to kill him in 2010.

Bishop had no reason to think that Denson would not be believed if she accused him at the time of the interviews (Greg Bishop wouldn't get the dossier until later).  Chances are he was aware of the MeToo movement which was still going strong iirc in December 2018 though perhaps past its peak.  Makes sense to me for him to take a cautious 'give them some to satisfy rather than complete denial' approach...especially useful if he can convince the police they have the whole story and won't need to go looking for other witnesses.  He knows he was accused by two women in 2010.  Probably remembers the details of those accusations.  Probably figures since it is a BYU Police they know or will hear of those accusations.  So he figures to include them in his confession and hope that resolves everything.

He knows his memory is crap in some ways (he refers to it when Denson's interview is just a casual discussion about his life in the beginning).  If he is aware enough in the first interview (drugs from surgery and possible dementia might have impact on impulse control at least, which could explaining the wandering, at times random stories), he needs to set things up so if he slips or says something she knows is wrong, he has wiggle room, but he gives enough she stops yelling and swearing at him.  And then he gets into the attention and goes off on his Bishop as hero or suffering servant stories.

After the interview he remembers enough details to discuss it with his son, the lawyer who is present for the police interview iirc, I bet (he remembers she asked him about Asay) and works out a story that makes him look better...at least to his family, likely with his son's unintentional help (watches to see what his son reacts to in order to craft his story).

That he remembers the detail accurately about Asay from a two hour highly emotional discussion means to me if he has dementia, it is likely mild.  I may change my mind after watching the full hour.  I would like to see if there is any physical difference over the hour, like he is tiring and how consistent he is.  If he isn't contradicting himself, making random comments, or screwing up easy timeline (twice saying he confessed to Wells about Denson prior to the MTC calling) as he was in the first interview, then I likely will conclude it was more drugs and shock than dementia that resulted in the more bizarre moments of the Denson interview.

I don't know how you can claim he has mild dementia based on two interviews.  That seems hard to prove without being around him a lot, without being a medical professional.  People have bad memories without dementia.  People also claim they don't remember when they just don't want to remember an embarrassing episode.  In any event, we need more information in order to make any determination in this case at this point.  I would want to question him more on why he didn't emphatically deny the rape allegations.  It seemed odd to me that he says he doesn't remember kissing or hugging, etc. but remembers asking to see under someone's top.  He was pretty detailed in his memory of asking to see some skin but not so much when it got more serious.  It could be that he is being evasive here and that is why there is the selective memory.

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19 minutes ago, Exiled said:

I don't know how you can claim he has mild dementia based on two interviews.  That seems hard to prove without being around him a lot, without being a medical professional.  People have bad memories without dementia.  People also claim they don't remember when they just don't want to remember an embarrassing episode.  In any event, we need more information in order to make any determination in this case at this point.  I would want to question him more on why he didn't emphatically deny the rape allegations.  It seemed odd to me that he says he doesn't remember kissing or hugging, etc. but remembers asking to see under someone's top.  He was pretty detailed in his memory of asking to see some skin but not so much when it got more serious.  It could be that he is being evasive here and that is why there is the selective memory.

Why do people think he has dementia?  Has he been diagnosed?  I’m just wondering where this came from.  Thanks!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Exiled said:

I don't know how you can claim he has mild dementia based on two interviews.  

I am saying it is a possibility.  I never claimed it to be a fact, though if you only read my gut reaction to the absurd and mumbled breast enhancement story, I get why it seems I am certain, lol.  It makes sense of the often nonsensical or out of place things he does.  I have also mentioned several times that I may be reading it into his comments because of my current experience with my mother (Mom isn't obsessed with sex or breasts, she does get fixated on other things though and she is both very apologetic and avoiding of responsibility, she tells everyone things don't get done because I am too busy, not that she tells me she doesn't want to do them yet).  I have often wished we had access to professional medical reports about him as opposed to a couple of anonymous people saying they know him or are related to him through his second marriage reporting he has dementia.

I have been clear for the past year I have discussed why .I see it as likely...it was solely based on the randomness and varying passiveness and animated storytelling of the first interview.  I have gone into great detail on what I identified as irrational and inconsistent and where the common behaviour of "covering" in dementia sufferers could be showing up.  As far as what might have been affected by dementia, I limited it to being able to follow the quick changes in the conversation by Denson and slowing his ability to access memories under stress.  Also likely his willingness to agree he did things (he just says "yes" without adding detail) while admitting he didn't remember (and then when he gave detail providing nothing that confirmed the accusation).

Once I heard he had heart surgery a few days prior, I mentioned the issues might be drug related (narcotics and other drugs cause greater confusion in the elderly even if they aren't normally confused).

I also never acted it removed him from accountabilty or that I believed he couldn't remember his own actions.  I have said the same thing about selective memory if not with the same words.  I think you are reading into my comments a position I do not hold.  I think the possibility of dementia should be considered given its frequency, but only a professional diagnosis would confirm it for me.

If it is not dementia, I would like an explanation for his weird behaviour.

Quote

why he didn't emphatically deny the rape allegations

He did in the original interview imo.  Up to rape, he comes across as uncertain...possibly because he was unsure what she was talking about,  Rape he denies and starts to tell his side, but she interrupts him and changes the topic.

I think we need to hear the rest of the interview before drawing conclusions about that one,  I can't immediate, got to feed the dog and stuff, but my expectation is greater clarity due to less drugs (though only three days so maybe not much), more details because he has been thinking about it and likely talking to at least his son the lawyer.

Edited by Calm
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, JulieM said:

Why do people think he has dementia?  Has he been diagnosed?  I’m just wondering where this came from.  Thanks!

Several anonymous people who related a connection (neighbour in one case, relative by marriage in another, long time friend in third case) said he had it.  I can't remember if I read part of the transcription first or read the claims, but I remember being very struck by the passive yeses followed by "I don't remember" and apologies.

There were a bunch of other red flags that I detailed and that just got dumped when .I went to doublecheck the last one, which was the conversation ending with Denson assuming responsibility of getting him to the bathroom because instead of excusing himself, he abruptly tells her he has to go to the bathroom. 

Unless someone cares I am not going to listvthe dumped stuff.  I have mentioned it several times this past year iirc.

Edited by Calm
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The video is gone.

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7 minutes ago, Calm said:

The video is gone.

sent you a message

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35 minutes ago, Calm said:

The video is gone.

Wow!  Anyone watch it before it was removed who can post about it?

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44 minutes ago, Calm said:

The video is gone.

 

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The full one hour interview, not the clips...but thanks for trying.

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Calm said:

The full one hour interview, not the clips...but thanks for trying.

You know me, always embarrassing myself. :) So the one hour clip was up on the SLTRIB and then taken down?

Edited by Tacenda

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I thought kutv, AL who posted it can tell us when he gets back.

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12 hours ago, Calm said:

I thought kutv, AL who posted it can tell us when he gets back.

It was posted at the bottom of the KUTV article (linked to in the OP) and also on Youtube (what I posted).

Did either you or provoman get a chance to listen to any of it before it was removed?  (Or anyone else?)

I wonder why they took it down....

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, ALarson said:

It was posted at the bottom of the KUTV article (linked to in the OP) and also on Youtube (what I posted).

Did either you or provoman get a chance to listen to any of it before it was removed?  (Or anyone else?)

I wonder why they took it down....

The short part I heard had names that were not effectively redacted

Edited by provoman

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3 minutes ago, provoman said:

 

?

Did you listen to any of it, provoman (or have you spoke to anyone who did)?

I'm just wondering why it was removed....any thoughts?

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Posted (edited)

Probably needed to edit it better to redact the names. 

If it was leaked and not released (does the article make it clear how they got it?) could they be given an injunction or threat of a lawsuit to suppress it?

Seems like if the Church did that it would blow up in their face even with just the info put out so far.  It makes it appear probably worse than it is.  If .Bishop has verified dementia, they can argue it's wishful thinking on his part, especially if he can't remember the name of the bishop as it appears.  If he hasn't got dementia or other documented memory issues, they can argue he has a pattern of lying when it benefits him based on his previous denials.  Trying to suppress it adds credibility to it at least on a PR basis imo,

And if they were trying to suppress it, seems like the two clips would be gone as well, so most likely imo it just needs a better redaction job of victims' names, but strange they don't say that.

The Trib published the clips, but kutv the full interview.  Is there any association between them?  I am wondering why the Trib didn't release it.  

Edited by Calm

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Calm said:

Probably needed to edit it better to redact the names. 

If it was leaked and not released (does the article make it clear how they got it?) could they be given an injunction or threat of a lawsuit to suppress it?

It was just added at the bottom of the article and also with a link to watch it on YouTube (when you clicked on the video).  Looks like some may have made copies of it, but I guess we will just have to wait and see if it's re-posted (with more redactions).

Did you get the chance to listen to any of it before it was removed or know if anyone else did?  I didn't watch it as I didn't have an hour free to do so right then.

Edited by ALarson

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Calm said:

Probably needed to edit it better to redact the names. 

If it was leaked and not released (does the article make it clear how they got it?) could they be given an injunction or threat of a lawsuit to suppress it?

Seems like if the Church did that it would blow up in their face even with just the info put out so far.  It makes it appear probably worse than it is.  If .Bishop has verified dementia, they can argue it's wishful thinking on his part, especially if he can't remember the name of the bishop as it appears.  If he hasn't got dementia or other documented memory issues, they can argue he has a pattern of lying when it benefits him based on his previous denials.  Trying to suppress it adds credibility to it at least on a PR basis imo,

And if they were trying to suppress it, seems like the two clips would be gone as well, so most likely imo it just needs a better redaction job of victims' names, but strange they don't say that.

The Trib published the clips, but kutv the full interview.  Is there any association between them?  I am wondering why the Trib didn't release it.  

It was leaked. KUTV anchor referred to it a leak. 

BYU PD is a confirmable entity in possession of the video.

A person  posted on their facebook - IIRC- that she knew what was in the interview. She also made a post on reddit that suggested she had infact listened to the audio. 

So there are potentially two sources of the leak.

Edited by provoman
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1 hour ago, ALarson said:

It was just added at the bottom of the article and also with a link to watch it on YouTube (when you clicked on the video).  Looks like some may have made copies of it, but I guess we will just have to wait and see if it's re-posted (with more redactions).

Did you get the chance to listen to any of it before it was removed or know if anyone else did?  I didn't watch it as I didn't have an hour free to do so right then.

I was waiting until I was uninterrupted, so nothing.  Don't know of anyone who did.  On Reddit, a few said they had started it but the most was ten minutes and then it went out.

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I don’t know how anyone can listen to the December 2017 recording and not conclude that Bishop’s elevator wasn’t reaching the top floor, post-op medications notwithstanding. Nobody dealing from a full deck would have talked one minute longer to Denson once it became clear that the latter had used deception to arrange the meeting and was actively collecting incriminating statements.  There is nothing in the leaked portions of the BYUPD interview that makes Bishop seem any more lucid, and the absurd notion that the church paid for Denson (or anyone else) to have a boob job should be a giant red flag.  (Remember that Denson herself laughed off the idea—see p. 37 of the PDF transcript—that she and Bishop had ever discussed her breasts in the MTC, as she “had no breasts at 21.”)

I still cannot fathom people’s taking Bishop’s babblings at face value, not to mention forming essentially out-of-the-brown conclusions with no other basis. There are witnesses who can cast light on this whole situation—especially other missionaries who knew Denson in the MTC, her ex-husband, and the other MTC accuser.

 

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