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An interesting event in Kirtland...a Smith Family feud


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1 hour ago, strappinglad said:

I am currently rereading Rough Stone Rolling and in it Bushman says that William was ' unstable ' . This post gives some credence to that statement , but do we have any other insights? 

There's a biography of William. He eventually associated with the RLDS (then called) but they considered him unstable as well.

https://www.amazon.com/William-B-Smith-Shadow-Prophet/dp/1589585038

There's a review by Steve Fleming over at JI.

https://juvenileinstructor.org/review-kyle-walker-william-b-smith-in-the-shadow-of-a-prophet/

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20 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

There's a biography of William. He eventually associated with the RLDS (then called) but they considered him unstable as well.

https://www.amazon.com/William-B-Smith-Shadow-Prophet/dp/1589585038

There's a review by Steve Fleming over at JI.

https://juvenileinstructor.org/review-kyle-walker-william-b-smith-in-the-shadow-of-a-prophet/

Do they mean unstable in the essence like he was mentally unwell or just outburst prone?

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1 hour ago, SettingDogStar said:

Do they mean unstable in the essence like he was mentally unwell or just outburst prone?

That's up to interpretation. I think the usual "safe" interpretation is that he was very headstrong, opinionated, not concerned about consequences, and prone to conspiracy. The stronger more controversial interpretation is mental illness but I think nearly all historians think that unfair. I think as a practical matter though people couldn't trust him to be a team player in any sense (RLDS or LDS). So I think that's the typical sense of unstable.

I should add I've not read the latest biography so I can't comment in too much depth.

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18 hours ago, strappinglad said:

I am currently rereading Rough Stone Rolling and in it Bushman says that William was ' unstable ' . This post gives some credence to that statement , but do we have any other insights? 

If memory serves, Joseph, Hyrum and William all died as a result of the murders at Carthage jail. William ran almost all the way back to Nauvoo, got sick and died just 20 days later. Lucy Mack Smith, had to bury three sons in a month. Of course Joseph and Hyrum had to be buried where mobs could not dig them up, before being moved the where they rest now.  

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7 minutes ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

If memory serves, Joseph, Hyrum and William all died as a result of the murders at Carthage jail. William ran almost all the way back to Nauvoo, got sick and died just 20 days later. Lucy Mack Smith, had to bury three sons in a month. Of course Joseph and Hyrum had to be buried where mobs could not dig them up, before being moved the where they rest now.  

That was another brother (Samuel) who died about a month after Joseph and Hyrum were murdered.  Lucy actually lost 4 sons in Nauvoo.  Very sad to think of what she must have gone through (there was also the death of her son Alvin prior to this time).

She did stay in Nauvoo and lived with Emma who took care of her until her death (iirc).

Edited by ALarson
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2 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

If memory serves, Joseph, Hyrum and William all died as a result of the murders at Carthage jail. William ran almost all the way back to Nauvoo, got sick and died just 20 days later. Lucy Mack Smith, had to bury three sons in a month. Of course Joseph and Hyrum had to be buried where mobs could not dig them up, before being moved the where they rest now.  

William died in 1893.

This "broadside" that he published in 1845 is...interesting:


http://www.truthandgrace.com/1845WilliamSmith.htm

Quote

I will state unequivocally at the outset, that it is my firm and sincere conviction, that, since the murder of my two brothers, usurpation and anarchy, and spiritual wickedness in high places, have crept into the church, with the cognizance and acquiescence of those whose solemn duty it was to guardedly watch against such estate of things. Under the reign of one whom I may call a Pontius Pilate, under the reign I say of this B. Young, no greater tyranny ever existed since the days of Nero. He has no other justification than ignorance to cover the most cruel acts -- acts disgraceful to anyone bearing the stamp of humanity; and this being has associated around him, men, bound by oaths and covenants, who are reckless enough to commit almost any crime, or fulfill any command that their self-crowned "head" might give them.

 

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22 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

If you have the time and inclination, you may wish to read this article I wrote about an event in Kirtland in which Joseph and William Smith were involved in a physical altercation that had a negative impact on their family and the whole Church. Your comments are welcomed!

I read about this many years ago in one of the histories of the Church, though I had the impression Joseph beat upon William to teach him a lesson. I took it partly as how people dealt with things in those days. But may I use this going forward as an example of a Church leader's fallibility and making mistakes?

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45 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I read about this many years ago in one of the histories of the Church, though I had the impression Joseph beat upon William to teach him a lesson. I took it partly as how people dealt with things in those days. But may I use this going forward as an example of a Church leader's fallibility and making mistakes?

There is nothing in the journals about Joseph beating William to teach him a lesson. Joseph was the recipient of the physical damage. He said because of the injuries he had received in his side earlier from being beaten by a mob he was unable to defend himself. He was rather forceful in his written admonitions, however. Please feel free to use the story. I would like to try to get it published, so maybe you could just use details. Yes, I think it is an example of leaders' human fallibility, but also a great example of reconciliation and forgiveness. That's why I found it compelling.

Edited by Bernard Gui
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47 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

There is nothing in the journals about Joseph beating William to teach him a lesson. Joseph was the recipient of the physical damage. He said because of the injuries he had received in his side earlier from being beaten by a mob he was unable to defend himself. He was rather forceful in his written admonitions, however. Please feel free to use the story. I would like to try to get it published, so maybe you could just use details. Yes, I think it is an example of leaders' human fallibility, but also a great example of reconciliation and forgiveness. That's why I found it compelling.

Oops, sorry: my last remark was tongue-in-cheek due to the other thread... should have used an emoji!

I wish you well in publishing your wonderful article! Meanwhile, i shall forget what I thought I had remembered!

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On 6/13/2019 at 12:44 PM, Bernard Gui said:

If you have the time and inclination, you may wish to read this article I wrote about an event in Kirtland in which Joseph and William Smith were involved in a physical altercation that had a negative impact on their family and the whole Church. Your comments are welcomed!

 

            Kirtland, Ohio, Wednesday, November 18, 1835. Joseph Smith spoke on the topic of the Resurrection at the funeral of Preserved Harris's father. It was a cool and cloudy day. Joseph, Emma, and Lucy Smith enjoyed a pleasant ride in their wagon. That night, Bishop Newel K. Whitney, his wife and parents, came by to invite Joseph and Emma to visit Joseph's parents with them. The elderly Smiths lived with their son William. Emma was ill, so Joseph went with his scribe instead. When they arrived, they found a number of the elders engaged in a debate on the subject of miracles.  Lasting over three hours, the debate was lively and interesting. Joseph was delighted, but he observed that the debate had been a little too zealous, resembling more the arguments of a lawyer in court defending his position right or wrong. He took the opportunity to advise the brethren to cultivate their intellects and improve their minds in a more proper manner, so as to please God, by handling sacred subject sacredly and respecting the opinions of others. 

            Several weeks later, on Saturday, December 12, Joseph spent the morning reading. Around noon some young adults stopped by his home to see the Egyptian records he was translating. That evening he attended another debate at William Smith's home. Debate groups were popular in America at the time. William had organized the debate school to discuss gospel topics. A topic would be chosen. Then the brethren picked which side to defend. Joseph took the side of the affirmative on the question, "Was it necessary for God to reveal Himself to mankind in order for their happiness?" The debate was spirited and possessive. Joseph spoke last, but before he could finish, he was called out to administer to Sister Angeline Works, who was seriously ill.

 

Was this Brigham's first wife or was there another Angeline Works (I think her full name was "Mariam Angeline Works")?

ETA:

I'm asking because she passed away in 1832, so I'm curious who this other "Angeline Works" was or if the date is wrong above for when this event occurred?

Edited by ALarson
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1 hour ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Was it another Smith brother? Or were there no other deaths in Nauvoo? Well, you know. 

Infant son died 1797, Ephraim died at birth in 1810, Alvin died 1823, Don Carlos died in 1841 in Nauvoo, then Joseph and Hyrum in June 1844, and then Samuel that July..

Iirc, William was the only surviving brother, died 1893

Sisters:  Sophronia (1876), Katherine (1900), Lucy (1882)

Edited by Calm
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2 hours ago, Calm said:

Infant son died 1797, Ephraim died at birth in 1810, Alvin died 1823, Don Carlos died in 1841 in Nauvoo, then Joseph and Hyrum in June 1844, and then Samuel that July..

Iirc, William was the only surviving brother, died 1893

Sisters:  Sophronia (1876), Katherine (1900), Lucy (1882)

So it was Samuel who did under the conditions, or circumstances listed.  

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June 27, 1844, while still living in Plymouth, Samuel learned that his brothers Joseph and Hyrum, who were in Carthage Jail with John Taylor and Willard Richards, were in danger. Samuel headed toward Carthage with a 14-year-old boy driving a wagon. On the way they met a mob, which attacked when they learned Samuel was Joseph Smith’s brother. The boy headed to Carthage with the wagon, and Samuel escaped into the woods “after severe fatigue, and much danger.”26

He made his way home and “acquired a horse noted for its speed.”27 His six-year-old daughter, Mary, remembers this moment: “My father came into the house in much excitement, and said … ‘I think I can break through the mob and get to Carthage’ and immediately he mounted the horse and was gone.”28

As he neared the town, a man and woman escaping in a buggy told him his brothers had been killed. Samuel rode on at great speed. Some of the mob, expecting his return, had hidden in a thicket. They chased Samuel, shooting at him. A bullet passed through the top of his hat, but Samuel, an excellent horseman, outran them.

Samuel was the first Latter-day Saint to arrive at the jail,29 but by then Joseph and Hyrum were already dead. The violence was over, the mob had retreated, and Samuel had a piercing pain in his side.

Samuel helped Willard Richards take the two bodies and the severely wounded John Taylor to a nearby hotel owned by Artois Hamilton. That night Willard wrote a letter to Emma telling her that Joseph and Hyrum were dead. Samuel’s signature appears alongside that of Willard Richards and John Taylor.30

The next day, Samuel, Willard, and Artois took the bodies of Joseph and Hyrum in two wagons to the Mansion House in Nauvoo. Samuel drove the wagon carrying the body of his brother Joseph. A guard of eight men accompanied them.31

After Lucy viewed the bodies, Samuel said, “Mother, I have had a dreadful distress in my side ever since I was chased by the mob.”32

Though Samuel was in pain and Levira was only weeks away from delivering a baby, the family moved into a two-story frame house opposite the Mansion House. Samuel’s health continued to decline. On July 30, just 34 days after Joseph and Hyrum died, Samuel died. His young daughter Mary remembered how “silence gave way to sobs”33 after their father passed away. His cause of death was listed as bilious fever.34

Levira, “a mild, quiet” woman,35 left Susannah, Mary, and Samuel with Hyrum’s widow, Mary Fielding Smith, and took her toddler to her parents. Twenty-one days after Samuel died, Lucy J. C. Smith was born and died soon after. Levira was ill and was unable to return to Nauvoo for some time.”

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2008/08/samuel-h-smith-faithful-brother-of-joseph-and-hyrum?lang=eng

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7 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Was it another Smith brother? Or were there no other deaths in Nauvoo? Well, you know. 

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/71953-an-interesting-event-in-kirtlanda-smith-family-feud/?do=findComment&comment=1209911495

It’s so tragic that Lucy Smith buried four of her sons in Nauvoo.  

I’m glad she was close to Emma and was taken care of in her old age.

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9 hours ago, ALarson said:

Was this Brigham's first wife or was there another Angeline Works (I think her full name was "Mariam Angeline Works")?

ETA:

I'm asking because she passed away in 1832, so I'm curious who this other "Angeline Works" was or if the date is wrong above for when this event occurred?

I don’t know. The dates are those given in the journal entries.

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Nathan Harris, Preserved's father died 1835 according to here.

https://www.geni.com/people/Nathan-Harris/6000000003607938812

Miriam Angeline Works Young would have been known as Sister Young, so it was likely a wife of her brother or male relative or sister or aunt.

Perhaps her (a sister), it doesn't give her marriage date to Robinson, but if born in 1814, she would have been 21 and possibly not married yet.

https://www.geni.com/people/Angelina-Robinson/6000000032812848611

Her one child listed was born around 1950, so likely later marriage.

Edited by Calm
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5 hours ago, Calm said:

Nathan Harris, Preserved's father died 1835 according to here.

https://www.geni.com/people/Nathan-Harris/6000000003607938812

Miriam Angeline Works Young would have been known as Sister Young, so it was likely a wife of her brother or male relative or sister or aunt.

Perhaps her (a sister), it doesn't give her marriage date to Robinson, but if born in 1814, she would have been 21 and possibly not married yet.

https://www.geni.com/people/Angelina-Robinson/6000000032812848611

Her one child listed was born around 1950, so likely later marriage.

Thanks, Calm.  I had a chance to do some searching and found this:

Quote

 

LDS History, 12 Dec. 1835

-- 12 Dec. 1835 
[Lucy Mack Smith] Joseph attends a debate at William Smith's home. (1)

-- December 13, 1835 
[Joseph Smith] Kirtland, Ohio. Joseph Smith officiated in the marriages of Ebenezer Robinson to Angeline Works and Edwin Webb to Eliza Ann McWhithy. (2)

-- 15 Dec. 1835 
[Lucy Mack Smith] Orson Hyde complains to Joseph that the temple committee store extended more lenient credit to William Smith than to him. (1)

-- 1835 December 16 
[Joseph Smith] Injured by brother William Smith, Kirtland. (3)

-- 16 Dec. 1835 
[Lucy Mack Smith] Joseph attends a second debate at William's and wants to end the school because the debates are too heated. William, angry, assaults Joseph. (1)

-- December 17, 1835 
[Joseph Smith] Kirtland, Ohio. After Orson Hyde read aloud a letter of complaint to the Prophet, Joseph Smith explained the objections he had set forth in it, and satisfied his mind upon every point, perfectly. (2)

-- 17 Dec. 1835 
[Lucy Mack Smith] Lucy and Joseph Sr. visit Joseph Jr. to discuss the estrangement between him and William. (1)

-- December 18, 1835 
[Joseph Smith] Kirtland, Ohio. Joseph Smith received and promptly replied to a letter from his brother William Smith in which William asked forgiveness for his abuse at a debate on December 16. (2)

-- 18 Dec. 1835 
[Lucy Mack Smith] William writes to Hyrum asking forgiveness for fighting with Joseph and asking to be released from his apostleship. Joseph Jr. encourages him to keep the apostleship, to control his temper, and not to judge him. (1)

http://lds-church-history.blogspot.com/2009/05/lds-history-12-dec-1835.html

 

It would be interesting to know how (or if) this Angeline Works was related to Brigham's first wife who'd passed away.  I was just curious.....

Edited by ALarson
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51 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Thanks, Calm.  I had a chance to do some searching and found this:

 

It would be interesting to know how (or if) this Angeline Works was related to Brigham's first wife who'd passed away.  I was just curious.....

It is her sister. 

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17 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Oh wow....both named "Angeline"?  Or maybe middle names since Brigham's wife was "Mariam Angeline".  Interesting....thanks again!

It looks like a favorite name. Miriam has Angeline as her middle name, Angeline has Eliza as hers. There was a difference of 9 years in age as well. 

Their grandmother’s name was Miriam, btw  

A brother Joseph Works names one of his daughters Angeline as well. Another sister was Adeline.  The sister Perthinia names a daughter Angeline. Another brother James named a daughter Mary Ann Angel.  So if it wasn’t a family name before, it became one. 

Edited by Calm
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On 6/13/2019 at 1:40 PM, strappinglad said:

I am currently rereading Rough Stone Rolling and in it Bushman says that William was ' unstable ' . This post gives some credence to that statement , but do we have any other insights? 

William's biographer, Kyle Walker, finds that William was a lot like his uncle Jesse Smith: "William's personality mirrored that of his uncle Jesse, and the two men were a match in being impulsive, quick-tempered, and obstinate in their views" (Walker, William B. Smith: In the Shadow of a Prophet, 76). Furthermore, both were large imposing men who sometimes used their physical strength to get their way. Writing of William's experience in Palmyra, Walker notes that "being an outcast for his religious convictions did not sit well him, nor would he tolerate the name-calling and ostracizing he experienced, especially from his peers." His patriarchal blessing later noted that "thou hast greatly desired to see thy father's family redeemed from trouble . . . but thou hast not altogether desired this thing in meekness."

Regarding William's physical altercation with Joseph in 1835, Walker writes: "William's animosity toward Joseph went back at least as far as their teens. While the rest of the family universally accepted Joseph's prophetic calling and prominent position in the family, William sometimes resented his older brother and the deference his parents paid to him. In later years, William acknowledged that his rather carefree, irreligious youth had elicited frequent lectures from his brother Joseph. Given that he already found the family's religious devotions irritating, William must have experienced his brother's lectures as bossy and preachy. It was also not the first time the brothers had scuffled, and certainly not the first time William had acted disrespectfully toward his older brother. Benjamin F. Johnson recorded another episode that had occurred, apparently at an earlier date. 'For Insolence to him,' Johnson related, 'He [Joseph] Soundly Thrashed his Brother William who Boasted himself as Invinsable'" (115).

Walker continues: "Though William eventually accepted his brother's prophetic calling, some of his earlier resentments appear to have been rekindled while they were serving together in the leading councils of the church. William felt annoyed that Joseph frequently got his way because of deference to his position as Church president. His brother's prominent role in the family was equally grating. It is evident from Joseph's writings that he strongly felt that he had the prerogative--even the responsibility--to reprove his younger brother for wayward behavior, both because of his ecclesiastical [position] and also because of his birth order in their family." In his letter to William afterward, Joseph wrote that it was "his privilege, of reproving a younger brother" and right "to admonish you because of my birthright" (116).

Walker observes that "it was also hard for William to stay in the background while his older brother was continually the focus of attention, both publicly in his civic and church responsibilities, as well as privately in the family. The recipient of his father's name, Joseph Jr. was the fulfillment of both family and scriptural prophecy that all the Smiths unequivocally accepted. . . . With most of the family siding with Joseph, the cost of holding on to his anger became too great, as it left William feeling ostracized from the Church and also isolated from his family. His strong family ties propelled him toward reconciliation with his brother" (117-118).

Joseph Sr. was instrumental in softening William's heart:

Quote

William's father played a critical role in helping bring about a resolution. He was perhaps better equipped than the rest of the family to deal with William's challenging nature because of his earlier experience in dealing with his own volatile brother, Jesse, whose temperament resembled William's and had caused the family repeated turmoil. It was Jesse who had threatened to chase Joseph Sr. and Don Carlos out of his house with his broad axe when they had first come to introduce the Book of Mormon to the family in the fall of 1830. It was also Jesse [who] siblings often described as punitive and tactless in conversation, heedlessly unleashing a violent temper that alienated him from his relatives.

Notwithstanding years of hostility and animosity, Joseph Sr. felt concern about and prayed for his inconstant brother. All of these experiences seemed to help soften Joseph Sr.'s feelings toward his own obstinate son and give him a repertoire of useful behaviors in dealing with William. There were times when no one could reach William except his father. Time would reveal that while Joseph Sr. did not trust William in the same way he did his namesake son, he still loved and supported William. The bond between the two was strong, and William remained fiercely loyal to his father throughout his life. His father's love and example helped hold him in their shared faith perhaps more than any other single factor. On several occasions when William faltered in his commitment to the Church, as was the case in 1835, the consoling words and steady example of his father helped him reconcile his differences and refresh his faith. (118-119)

Joseph Smith is said to have prophesied that William "would become a good man when He became an old man" (Brigham Young, quoted in Wilford Woodruff's journal, 14 June 1857). As it happened, William's last 30 years were peaceful. In a small community in northeastern Iowa he finally found the respect and acceptance that had eluded him his whole life. Walker records that when B.H. Roberts visited William in the fall of 1880, he found him "a gracious host, feeding the two missionaries supper and breakfast and, although they didn't know it until the next day, giving them his own bed while he slept on the floor. The next day, William wrote a letter to a possible contact in Elkader, urging this friend 'to receive us as he would himself and to see to it that no one insulted us.' He walked with them to the outskirts of town and, in saying farewell, burst into a 'flood of tears accompanied by a clinging warm clasp of his hand.' Three times, Roberts looked back as they continued on their way, and each time, William was also looking at them, giving them 'a farewell wave of the hand'" (561).

Reflecting on William's turbulent, eventful life, Walker offers this appraisal:

Quote

His ambitions frequently outran his ability to discipline and channel his undeniable talents. Among his contributions before the murders of Joseph and Hyrum were his service as a representative to the Illinois legislature, as editor of one newspaper in Illinois and one in New York, and his able and persuasive preaching that brought hundreds into the faith. . . . He obviously had manifested some of the charisma that drew devoted disciples to his brother, but those very qualities of compassion, affection, and enthusiasm frequently ended in injured feelings, agonizing rejection, desire for retaliation, and launching a new scheme before he could properly prepare for its success. The cycle of disappointing others, which led to their rejection of him, was all too often a prelude to his own violent rejection of them, so that he left behind him a trail of damaged and mistrustful former friends, allies, wives, and children. . . .

Nevertheless, after his frantic activities to find or make a new spiritual home during the later 1840s and 1850s, he succeeded in reining in his ambitions, settling into a community that accepted him on his own terms, and becoming a stable husband and kindly father and stepfather despite wrestling with poverty. (563-564)

 

Edited by Nevo
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