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pogi

Another Bishop and Sexual Misconduct

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10 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Parents attending a Bishop interview with the child is all well and good until the abuser is one of the parents. IIRC abuse by a parent is more common than abuse by a Bishop. Then what?

It doesn’t have to be a parent.  We’ve had youth request to have one of their YW leaders attend the interview with them.

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I know several kids who have expressed reluctance of telling their parents about anything tough in their lives because they know their parents hurt when they hurt and feel responsible and they don't want to do that to their parents.  Telling someone that can help, but might not come across as being forced to fix it for them may be easier.  There are things I stopped telling my parents because it became their problem where I could tell a therapist or doctor who can help me fix it, but at the end of the day hopefully doesn't take it home with them as a burden.

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1 minute ago, JulieM said:

It doesn’t have to be a parent.  We’ve had youth request to have one of their YW leaders attend the interview with them.

I am not opposed to youth bringing people with them to an interview, as long as they have the option of Not bringing someone with them as well.  Some things are best talked about one on one.

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Just now, Danzo said:

I am not opposed to youth bringing people with them to an interview, as long as they have the option of Not bringing someone with them as well.  Some things are best talked about one on one.

I agree.  They have that option still too.

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On 6/12/2019 at 10:55 AM, pogi said:

https://www.ksl.com/article/46571927/ex-bishop-sent-to-jail-for-sexual-misconduct-lewdness-with-teens

A couple things that stood out to me about this case is 1) the slap on the wrist sentence, and 2) the dozens of letters of support for Mr. Head that were sent to the judge ahead of sentencing - even though he acknowledged his guilt.  One of the letters came from former Utah House Speaker Greg Hughes (his brother-in-law) who will be running for governor in 2020.  Well...he has lost my vote! 

The letters of support should be sent to the victims and not in support of the perpetrator.  What is wrong with people!? 

Despite his acknowledge guilt, his community still seems to trust him while the victims feel shamed by the community.  What is going on here?  

I think that individuals who use positions of authority or trust, should have even worse sentences handed down, when they do these horrible things. Especially anything of a sexual nature to a child. I read about this story, he should have gotten the max time in prison for each change. If there is one code of conduct that is not condoned in prison, it is sex crimes against children, as so many in prison had it happen to them. So, here in hoping those months he will spend in jail, are not pleasant. 

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15 minutes ago, Calm said:

I know several kids who have expressed reluctance of telling their parents about anything tough in their lives because they know their parents hurt when they hurt and feel responsible and they don't want to do that to their parents.  Telling someone that can help, but might not come across as being forced to fix it for them may be easier.  There are things I stopped telling my parents because it became their problem where I could tell a therapist or doctor who can help me fix it, but at the end of the day hopefully doesn't take it home with them as a burden.

But you know Calm, a lot of my YW are reluctant and dread being alone with the bishop too.  That’s why it’s nice how our leaders have given us options now.

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6 minutes ago, JulieM said:

But you know Calm, a lot of my YW are reluctant and dread being alone with the bishop too.  That’s why it’s nice how our leaders have given us options now.

I agree that options are best.  I am concerned if parents nix it for older teens or insist they be present, I think at least by 15 the kids should have a choice.

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26 minutes ago, JulieM said:

But you know Calm, a lot of my YW are reluctant and dread being alone with the bishop too.  That’s why it’s nice how our leaders have given us options now.

Where's this dread coming from.

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6 minutes ago, USU78 said:

Where's this dread coming from.

Some are shy or just don’t want to be alone with an adult male I think (from my observations).  

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2 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

You’ve never been a 15 year old girl anticipating a chastity inquisition by a middle aged authority figure? 

Once only, and that was two, no three lifetimes ago.

Seriously though, I don't see that boys are any less apprehensive than girls.

I'm confused by the use of the word dread in this context.

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6 hours ago, ALarson said:

Who is "lambasting the Church for keeping records" of documented convicted sex abusers?  Can you post a link to where "folks" here are doing that?

I'd be shocked to see anyone advocating for no record keeping regarding any who have been convicted of sexual abuse or who are registered sex offenders.  This protects the church from liability and also hopefully protects any others from suffering abuse. 

Does the LDS Church keep such detailed records?  I don't know, but I'll bet that their law firm does.

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44 minutes ago, USU78 said:

Once only, and that was two, no three lifetimes ago.

Seriously though, I don't see that boys are any less apprehensive than girls.

I'm confused by the use of the word dread in this context.

We’re talking about teenagers.

They want to be on their phones or with friends 😏

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1 hour ago, USU78 said:

Once only, and that was two, no three lifetimes ago.

Seriously though, I don't see that boys are any less apprehensive than girls.

I'm confused by the use of the word dread in this context.

There are some things that can’t be explained I suppose.  

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35 minutes ago, JulieM said:

We’re talking about teenagers.

They want to be on their phones or with friends 😏

Was dread hyperbolic?

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6 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

There are some things that can’t be explained I suppose.  

I fully understand that men and women are separate species with mutually unintelligible languages. But I'm hung up on this use of dread in the context of youth of both sexes being encouraged to take greater responsibility for service in the Church at much younger ages than we were, with the personal accountability to priesthood authority as representative of both G-d and the community that goes along with that, the requisite need to develop personal, trusting relationship s with bishops.

In that context I'm being asked to take in faith that fifteen year old girls are too riddled with dread to face the bishop without a handholder.

I'm stunned at the infantilization.

I'm weeping at the destruction of priest/penitent privilege.

I'm really confused.

Help a guy out.

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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, USU78 said:

Was dread hyperbolic?

Nope.  Have you been around groups of teenagers lately?  Not many of them want to be alone with any adult let alone the Bishop.  I’m not saying they don’t respect him or like him but some don’t know him well or may feel intimidated by him (because of his position I think).  Many of them just don’t look forward to the interviews.  I don't find that odd at all.  

Edited by JulieM
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2 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Nope.  

Help me understand whence the dread.

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, USU78 said:

In that context I'm being asked to take in faith that fifteen year old girls are too riddled with dread to face the bishop without a handholder.

Talk about hyperbole 😂

No, the YW I serve are incredible girls.  But yes, they don’t get real excited about the regular interviews with the Bishop.  Some are very shy and dread anything like the one on one alone time with the Bishop (who they respect but who they can even be more shy around). Some do have another leader present or a parent, that’s well within the guidelines from our church leaders too.  

Dread can mean apprehension or nervousness.  That’s how I used it here.

Edited by JulieM
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1 hour ago, JulieM said:

Have you been around groups of teenagers lately?  Not many of them want to be alone with any adult let alone the Bishop.

This absolutely does not match my personal experience. I still have former Young Men who speak with gratitude for every single interaction they were blessed to have with all three members of our bishopric ... and amazingly, they include me as both Young Men president and then as bishopric counsellor for Young Men. One of them is a few metres away from me right now; we're work colleagues. Last week he tearfully thanked me for investing in him one-on-one over the course of many difficult years. Another one has been texting me off and on over the course of the day to update me on how he's been going at university. His last year of school, he was at the end of my dining table 4-5 hours every evening working on assignments, often with me sitting next to him giving help.

Are you sure you aren't projecting your personal dread onto the girls you work with?

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Posted (edited)

I doubt she is projecting.  I have no particular dread, never had that experience myself, but I know young women who would prefer to avoid the interview not because they are unworthy but because of discomfort. And it is high for some. 

It is similar for some with why they are more comfortable with female doctors than men. For other it is the anticipated topic  

Bishops are not leaders of the young women’s groups in the same way as they are for young men from what I have seen. And that is fine, I assume women leaders are not leaders of young men in the same way as they are young women. 

Edited by Calm
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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, Calm said:

It is similar for some with why they are more comfortable with female doctors than men. 

I'll take a female doctor over a man any day! Brigham Young was right on that point.

Quote

Bishops are not leaders of the young women’s groups in the same way as they are for young men from what I have seen.

Our bishopric members attend Young Women classes and activities as often as they can. I certainly did when I was one. The Handbook makes it clear that that's supposed to happen:

Quote

The bishop and his counselors regularly participate in Young Women meetings, service, and activities. The bishop works with the Laurels. He assigns his counselor who works with deacons to work with the Beehives and his counselor who works with the teachers to work with the Mia Maids.

 

Edited by Hamba Tuhan

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I'll take a female doctor over a man any day!

Not all men feel that way. 

And bishops are presidents of the Priest Quorum, not so the Laurel class. 

Edited by Calm
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7 hours ago, Calm said:

Not all men feel that way. 

And bishops are presidents of the Priest Quorum, not so the Laurel class. 

Thank goodness! I don’t think the girls would like that much. 😉 But, structurally, the relationship is different. 

And yes, dread is the appropriate word to use. Some girls dread the interviews. True. Some girls do not like being one on one with the Bishopric. True. Some Bishopric members are viewed negatively by some of the young women. True. Some Bishops ask creepy questions. True. Temple recommend interviews can be uncomfortable. True. Even when completely worthy? Yes. 

Also, it’s not just the young women. These statements are true for most demographics.

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