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Rivers

The Atonement Taking Place on our World

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The Book of Moses tells us that there are "worlds without number" out in the cosmos.  This begs the question of how these worlds relate to Christ and the Atonement.  The answer that I have heard several times is that out of all the many worlds out there, our world was chosen.  And the reason being that we are the most wicked.  

I'm sorry but I have a hard time swallowing this one.  That is just way to convenient that our earth just so happened to be the one to which Christ came.  But I also can't figure out how else things would work everywhere else.  Would it make more sense for every other world to have its own savior?  There's probably no answer for this one that can satisfy me but I thought I'd throw it out there.

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If one can actually measure wickedness (which I have my doubts on), there will likely be a most wicked world.  If it is possible a saviour can cover multiple worlds and it is necessary he sacrifice in the face evil to become our Redeemer, than it makes sense to me to have him do that on the most wicked world.

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2nd Nephi 10 has this, though I wonder if that is Jacob's feelings about the people he sees as trying to kill his own family or revelation to him, people he never knew himself to observe the mix of bad and good, but just heard stories about since he was born in the wilderness.

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3 Wherefore, as I said unto you, it must needs be expedient that Christ—for in the last night the angel spake unto me that this should be his name—should bcome among the Jews, among those who are the more wicked part of the world; and they shall crucify him—for thus it behooveth our God, and there is none other nation on earth that would crucify their God.

If revelation, maybe this world is the only one that would kill their God.

Seems improbable though...both the only world and Jews being only nation.  There were nations much more brutal than the Jews were at their worst imo, though I suspect what was really needed was a nation that had very good people in it as well as very bad or at least ones capable of blinding themselves, justifying their actions to the point of killing a man.

But it is not like public execution is unusual, the question is if others would have recognized the divine or at least good in Christ and still try to kill him.

I think there are many examples of good people being killed by bad, power hungry or self righteous, so other nations could have filled that role, I am guessing.  I personally think it is Jacob letting his personal feelings turn the Jews as a whole into fiends.  The Jews were chosen imo because they had been willing at times to accept the gospel and Jehovah as their God, the contrast of good and evil needed to be there to provide the gospel teachings a useful context and to create a situation complete for a demonstration of purpose of the tree of knowledge leading to a reveal of the tree of life.

Edited by Calm

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https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Question:_Is_Jesus_Christ_the_savior_of_other_worlds%3F

Your question itself is based on a question we don't have conclusive revelation concerning.

It's important to note that as Calm said " IF it is possible a saviour can cover multiple worlds".

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3 hours ago, Calm said:

If one can actually measure wickedness (which I have my doubts on), there will likely be a most wicked world.  If it is possible a saviour can cover multiple worlds and it is necessary he sacrifice in the face evil to become our Redeemer, than it makes sense to me to have him do that on the most wicked world.

Do you think it is possible that Jesus was sacrificed on another world? Is that what you are eluding to? He had to be nailed to a cross more than once? 

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5 hours ago, Rivers said:

The Book of Moses tells us that there are "worlds without number" out in the cosmos.  This begs the question of how these worlds relate to Christ and the Atonement.  The answer that I have heard several times is that out of all the many worlds out there, our world was chosen.  And the reason being that we are the most wicked.  

I'm sorry but I have a hard time swallowing this one.  That is just way to convenient that our earth just so happened to be the one to which Christ came.  But I also can't figure out how else things would work everywhere else.  Would it make more sense for every other world to have its own savior?  There's probably no answer for this one that can satisfy me but I thought I'd throw it out there.

It seems the phrase "meridian of time" can refer in some cases to our own world's timetable, and in other cases to the larger universe of "worlds without number (but numbered unto God)". So, the Savior came among the more (not most) wicked nation of this world; and in the larger scheme, came among the more wicked of all worlds at that particular point in time designated as the "meridian" as "prepared from before the foundation of the world." (Moses 5:57).

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2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Question:_Is_Jesus_Christ_the_savior_of_other_worlds%3F

Your question itself is based on a question we don't have conclusive revelation concerning.

It's important to note that as Calm said " IF it is possible a saviour can cover multiple worlds".

Presumably all inhabited worlds have a timetable from creation to celestialization, and have their dispensations and apostasies. So, any given population on one world can be found to be as/less/more wicked as another at some time or another, on its own world or another. I think Christ's coming to our world was a matter of timing and not a matter of selecting a "most wicked" people or planet, only a people or planet that would meet the necessary criteria at the set meridian of time.

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That's not following

5 hours ago, Rivers said:

The Book of Moses tells us that there are "worlds without number" out in the cosmos.  This begs the question of how these worlds relate to Christ and the Atonement.  The answer that I have heard several times is that out of all the many worlds out there, our world was chosen.  And the reason being that we are the most wicked.  

I'm sorry but I have a hard time swallowing this one.  That is just way to convenient that our earth just so happened to be the one to which Christ came.  But I also can't figure out how else things would work everywhere else.  Would it make more sense for every other world to have its own savior?  There's probably no answer for this one that can satisfy me but I thought I'd throw it out there.

It would make sense for each world to have their own Saviour, if the LDS doctrine of men becoming Gods is still true. Because each man will become God and therefore will have a son who will make the same sacrifice if another couple in the garden needs their eyes open. 

Edited by Tacenda

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3 hours ago, CV75 said:

Presumably all inhabited worlds have a timetable from creation to celestialization, and have their dispensations and apostasies. So, any given population on one world can be found to be as/less/more wicked as another at some time or another, on its own world or another. I think Christ's coming to our world was a matter of timing and not a matter of selecting a "most wicked" people or planet, only a people or planet that would meet the necessary criteria at the set meridian of time.

Still too convenient.

Edited by Rivers

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While Brigham Young did say some odd things ( a lot) I do enjoy some of his doctrinal points. I believe he made mention that each world would posses a savior. 

Course thats pure heresy to any other Christian sect.

Edited by SettingDogStar
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9 hours ago, Rivers said:

That is just way to convenient that our earth just so happened to be the one to which Christ came. 

I keep hearing that.  But consider the eventual extension of that logic.  If ours was "way to convenient", which one would be "more convenient"?  If it can't be, simply because the odds are too small, then that means it couldn't really happen anywhere.  That's the same logic.

Also keep in mind that nowhere does any scripture say that there is life on other planets.  We're simply told that the Lord will not reveal anything to us about other worlds.

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But I also can't figure out how else things would work everywhere else. 

It would work very similar to how the Nephites experienced it.  Considering communication and travel technology of the time, they may as well have been on another planet at the time.

Edited by Carborendum
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52 minutes ago, Rivers said:

Still too convenient.

Fortunately for us! If He never came to the world and never atoned, all would be lost, whether the world is ours or any other, and no matter how many worlds He might thus cover.

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10 hours ago, Rivers said:

The answer that I have heard several times is that out of all the many worlds out there, our world was chosen.  And the reason being that we are the most wicked.  

I'm sorry but I have a hard time swallowing this one.  That is just way to convenient that our earth just so happened to be the one to which Christ came.

It makes complete sense.

Just look at how far we have progressed technologically since the fullness of the gospel has been restored.

Now, imagine what a civilization would look like if the gospel were always present... 

Exactly.

Which totally explains why aliens are so much more technologically advanced than us. 

:morg: Q.E.D. :morg:

 

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6 hours ago, snowflake said:

Do you think it is possible that Jesus was sacrificed on another world? Is that what you are eluding to? He had to be nailed to a cross more than once? 

No, I would assume a different person, another Son of God, was the saviour on another world if each had their own.

Edited by Calm
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1 hour ago, Rivers said:

Still too convenient.

Someone has to win the lottery if there is an actual payout.

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1 hour ago, Carborendum said:

Also keep in mind that nowhere does any scripture say that there is life on other planets.  We're simply told that the Lord will not reveal anything to us about other worlds.

Actually that's not entirely true. There is a brief mention in section 76...


23 For we saw him, even on the bright hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—

24 That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God.

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It also provides a nice dose of humility to those who think of themselves as elect. If this is the worst world and the elect are the best in it isn’t that like being the valedictorian in a special needs school?

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10 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It also provides a nice dose of humility to those who think of themselves as elect. If this is the worst world and the elect are the best in it isn’t that like being the valedictorian in a special needs school?

More like juvenile detention center/school given the attribute is wickedness...

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5 minutes ago, Calm said:

More like juvenile detention center/school given the attribute is wickedness...

So like that joke Harry Potter bumper sticker:

“My Son is an Honor Student at St Brutus’s Secure Center for Incurably Criminal Boys”

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8 hours ago, Tacenda said:

It would make sense for each world to have their own Saviour, if the LDS doctrine of men becoming Gods is still true. Because each man will become God and therefore will have a son who will make the same sacrifice if another couple in the garden needs their eyes open. 

Who was the Saviour of the planet where the man (who would eventually be the Heavenly Father of our Earth)
was born on and became a God?

Thanks,
Jim

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1 minute ago, theplains said:

Who was the Saviour of the planet where the man (who would eventually be the Heavenly Father of our Earth)
was born on and became a God?

Thanks,
Jim

Tell me the name of the planet and the nation that he grew up in first.

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9 minutes ago, theplains said:

Who was the Saviour of the planet where the man (who would eventually be the Heavenly Father of our Earth)
was born on and became a God?

Tim.

Edited by The Nehor
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7 minutes ago, theplains said:

Who was the Saviour of the planet where the man (who would eventually be the Heavenly Father of our Earth)
was born on and became a God?

Thanks,
Jim

Yeah that’s kind of impossible. It’s more of a logical following. If we become Gods, just like Heavenly Father, then we need to walk in the path of the Savior in every way. 

There is obviously no scriptural (or at least very obvious) support. 

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