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The Keystone of Our Religion

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24 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Good to know, thanks for your patience. I'm really such a kindergartner when it comes to scriptures. Or maybe not even that far!

I don't belong in these threads where scripture is spoken, usually because I lack so much in this area. I will take a look at Revelation! 

Well, specifically verses like 

Rev 2:

26 aAnd he that bovercometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give cpower over the nations:

27 And he shall rule them with a arod of iron; as the bvessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

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4 minutes ago, CV75 said:

According to Joseph Smith, yes, we need the most correct book, or the fulness of the gospel, a testament and tangible fulfilment of God keeping His earthly promises to an ancient remnant of Joseph who are linked to Ephraim and the Gentiles in the last days, in preparation for His Second Coming. There is no other way to fulfill the law of two witnesses (Judah and Joseph). Without that, there is no fulfillment of all His promises in the way He said they would be, even those to Abraham. It is the answer to 2 Nephi 29, and in the future, its sealed portion is the answer to 2 Nephi 27 (especially verses 6, 7, 10, 11, 29).

The book itself was also compiled and condensed to specifically guide us in this dispensation and serves to illustrate the stumbling blocks and temptations that will most afflict the Saints in our day and the lead up to the First Coming and Resurrection of the Savior in the Book of Mormon is a particularly helpful primer on being ready for the Second.

I also like how Nibley described the Book of Mormon as a gift. In a world where everyone is doing the wrong thing (not necessarily the bad thing but not what they should be doing) you can escape that trap by reading the Book of Mormon because you almost certainly are doing what you should be doing and, if it is not, it will soon lead you to what you should be doing.

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2 hours ago, CV75 said:

Joseph Smith learned many things from it which prompted his pursuit of revelation (I'm thinking for example the building of Zion on Joseph/Lehi's promised land, but also many basics such as baptism). 

This got me thinking about which scripture was more influential in prompting the pursuit of revelation for Joseph Smith, the BoM or the Bible.  Certainly, both have been influential.  First, we can credit the birth spark of the restoration to the Bible, James 1:5.  Temples - Bible.  Division of priesthood authority - Bible.  Division of glories in the plan of salvation - Bible.  The preaching of the gospel in the spirit world (received by Joseph F. Smith) - Bible.  Certainly in reading the D&C the number of revelations prompted by Bible reading far outweighs any from the Book of Mormon.

Despite Joseph Smiths comment, in the early church the Bible was referenced WAY more than the BoM in conference talks.  It remained this way until President Benson in the 1970's.

If I was to pick a book that was probably more influential in prompting revelation in the early church, I would probably suggest the Bible. 

 

Edited by pogi

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, CV75 said:

According to Joseph Smith, yes, we need the most correct book, or the fulness of the gospel, a testament and tangible fulfilment of God keeping His earthly promises to an ancient remnant of Joseph who are linked to Ephraim and the Gentiles in the last days, in preparation for His Second Coming. There is no other way to fulfill the law of two witnesses (Judah and Joseph). Without that, there is no fulfillment of all His promises in the way He said they would be, even those to Abraham. It is the answer to 2 Nephi 29, and in the future, its sealed portion is the answer to 2 Nephi 27 (especially verses 6, 7, 10, 11, 29).

I would suggest that both witnesses are equally important in fulfilling the law of witnesses.  Certainly, the Bible is more of a witness to the life and ministry of Jesus than the BoM. 

Edited by pogi

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2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

The book itself was also compiled and condensed to specifically guide us in this dispensation and serves to illustrate the stumbling blocks and temptations that will most afflict the Saints in our day and the lead up to the First Coming and Resurrection of the Savior in the Book of Mormon is a particularly helpful primer on being ready for the Second.

I also like how Nibley described the Book of Mormon as a gift. In a world where everyone is doing the wrong thing (not necessarily the bad thing but not what they should be doing) you can escape that trap by reading the Book of Mormon because you almost certainly are doing what you should be doing and, if it is not, it will soon lead you to what you should be doing.

Yes, it is a keystone on both a personal practice level and a united covenant people practice level.

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2 hours ago, pogi said:

This got me thinking about which scripture was more influential in prompting the pursuit of revelation for Joseph Smith, the BoM or the Bible.  Certainly, both have been influential.  First, we can credit the birth spark of the restoration to the Bible, James 1:5.  Temples - Bible.  Division of priesthood authority - Bible.  Division of glories in the plan of salvation - Bible.  The preaching of the gospel in the spirit world (received by Joseph F. Smith) - Bible.  Certainly in reading the D&C the number of revelations prompted by Bible reading far outweighs any from the Book of Mormon.

Despite Joseph Smiths comment, in the early church the Bible was referenced WAY more than the BoM in conference talks.  It remained this way until President Benson in the 1970's.

If I was to pick a book that was probably more influential in prompting revelation in the early church, I would probably suggest the Bible. 

Yet Joseph himself called it the keystone. What was his insight for doing so? The First Vision was an astounding revelation, opening up the dispensation in which the religion was subsequently revealed to through the instrumentality of the Book of Mormon, both to Joseph in organizing the movement into a religion and encouraging converts to become true disciples through the book's teachings. For some reason we cannot simply apply James 1:5 and get as near to God as Joseph did on that occasion, but that is the literal outcome of applying the fulness of the gospel as set forth in the Book of Mormon to the religion that was organized, individually (I mean, as in families sealed unto exaltation) and collectively (these families building up Zion).

2 hours ago, pogi said:

I would suggest that both witnesses are equally important in fulfilling the law of witnesses.  Certainly, the Bible is more of a witness to the life and ministry of Jesus than the BoM. 

I would suggest the relationship is best described in 2 Nephi 29, and is not competitive at all. That is more for the Keystone Cops! The Bible benefits from the second witness and the correctness, and the Book of Mormon has at least three witnesses, and as it turns out, eleven! I don't see the "eye-witness" record of Jesus' life and ministry beginning and ending with the Bible, and the Book of Mormon revelations about His mortal life and ministry before, during and after His mortal birth, death and resurrection any less informative, profound or less supported by spiritual witness. Plus it explains the other sheep better :)

At any rate, I take their relationship to support Joseph's keystone metaphor, not refute it.

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On 6/10/2019 at 9:38 AM, SettingDogStar said:

Well I think the gift of the Holy Ghost. No other church has possessed that gift since the Apostles, or at least no church that we have been made aware of.

This is patently false. Christianity could not have survived all the deaths of the original apostles and Jesus's death without the Spirit to guide them. @3DOP, @MiserereNobis and @Spammer...am I off base on this?

The ancient church was not a vessel to bring about Mormonism. Mormonism is a response to 19th century American social and religious culture.

Edited by Valentinus

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On 6/10/2019 at 12:38 PM, SettingDogStar said:

Well I think the gift of the Holy Ghost. No other church has possessed that gift since the Apostles, or at least no church that we have been made aware of.

Wow really? Only the LDS have access to the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit) ? Billions of Christians (non-lds) through many denominations claim to have had their lives changed through the Holy Spirit.

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On 6/10/2019 at 12:47 PM, CV75 said:

Our religion consists of the covenant practice of the “principles” and “fulness of the everlasting gospel,” “the new covenant” and “the truth and the word of God.” Without the Book or Mormon, we haven’t any of that to practice. The phrases in quotation marks come from the D&C which points to the necessity of Book of Mormon.

Not sure if you know this or not bth the "fullness of the everlasting gospel" Joseph taught about. is not found in the BOM. 

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12 minutes ago, snowflake said:

Wow really? Only the LDS have access to the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit) ? Billions of Christians (non-lds) through many denominations claim to have had their lives changed through the Holy Spirit.

The gift of the Holy Ghost is different than having access to or feeling the influence of the Spirit.

"All honest seekers of the truth can feel the influence of the Holy Ghost, leading them to Jesus Christ and His gospel. However, the fulness of the blessings given through the Holy Ghost are available only to those who receive the gift of the Holy Ghost and remain worthy.

After a person is baptized into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, one or more Melchizedek Priesthood holders lay their hands on the person’s head and, in a sacred priesthood ordinance, confirm him or her a member of the Church. As part of this ordinance, called confirmation, the person is given the gift of the Holy Ghost."

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/holy-ghost?lang=eng&_r=1

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On 6/10/2019 at 12:12 PM, pogi said:

We have all heard this quote.  The concept of the Book of Mormon being the keystone of our religion has been taught throughout the history of our church.  I have never really thought twice about it until yesterday when it was taught in Young Men's.  I don't know why this occasion was different from any other, but for the first time the idea seemed strange and didn't make much sense to me.  The idea has been so thoroughly reinforced in the history of our church, from the prophet of the restoration onward; but I wonder if this teaching has reached almost creedal status without any one really questioning it. 

When we say that the Book of Mormon is the keystone of our religion, we are suggesting that without the keystone, the rest of the arch (religion) would crumble.  But why do we teach this?  Would it really crumble without the Book of Mormon?  What if the church was restored through Joseph Smith and there were no gold plates, no translation, no Book of Mormon... why couldn't the restoration work without it?  What principle, doctrine, or ordinance do we find in the Book of Mormon that could not have been revealed in some other way and recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants?

To clarify, I am not suggesting that the Book of Mormon is not significant.  It is.  I believe that it is everything else that Joseph said about the book in the above quote. But, isn't the real keystone of our religion revelation?  Isn't that the stone that holds everything else in place?  Remove that and everything crumbles - including the Book of Mormon as it was translated through a revelatory process.  

The only attempt to defend the teaching has been this - if the book of Mormon is true, then Joseph was a prophet, and if Joseph was a prophet the restoration and everything that came from it is true.  If it is false, then it is all false.  In this way, the attempt is made to place the Book of Mormon in the place of the keystone as if everything leans on it.  But, if you think about it, we could place any other variable in that equation in its place and it would be just as true.  For example, we could say - if Joseph was a prophet, then the restoration is true along with everything that comes from it, including the Book of Mormon, therefore Joseph Smith is the keystone.  Or we could say - if the restoration is true, then Joseph Smith was a prophet, and the Book of Mormon is true, etc.

It seems clear to me that the true keystone of our religion is revelation.  Remove the Book of Mormon and the restoration would still have been possible with revelation. Remove revelation, and it all crumbles. 

Thoughts?

I think your analogy is quite accurate. From what I have read on this board and having been raised in the LDS church, Joseph and the BOM are the most important aspects of the COJCOLDS. Jesus is way down at the bottom, like a footnote. Without Joseph and the BOM, absolutely the LDS church would crumble. The protestants, baptists, lutherans and all other Christians have Jesus at the top..... Jesus and a personal relationship with him is the most important aspect of their life. 

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1 hour ago, snowflake said:

Wow really? Only the LDS have access to the Holy Ghost (Holy Spirit) ? Billions of Christians (non-lds) through many denominations claim to have had their lives changed through the Holy Spirit.

You're twisting my words. All people, and I mean all people, have access to the Holy Ghost and many of it's gifts. The Lord can work through mysterious ways and can forgive whom He forgives. He obviously inspired many of the great reformers, Joseph Smith, and translators of the bible through His spirit. However the GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST is a very different gift and can only be given by the laying on of hands. Of course the actually laying on of hands doesn't immediately grant that power but it opens up the way, just as baptism opens up the way to a forgiveness of sins. 

"“There is a difference between the Holy Ghost and the gift of the Holy Ghost. Cornelius received the Holy Ghost before he was baptized, which was the convincing power of God unto him of the truth of the Gospel, but he could not receive the gift of the Holy Ghost until after he was baptized. Had he not taken this sign or ordinance upon him, the Holy Ghost which convinced him of the truth of God, would have left him." Joseph Smith

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51 minutes ago, snowflake said:

I think your analogy is quite accurate. From what I have read on this board and having been raised in the LDS church, Joseph and the BOM are the most important aspects of the COJCOLDS. Jesus is way down at the bottom, like a footnote. Without Joseph and the BOM, absolutely the LDS church would crumble. The protestants, baptists, lutherans and all other Christians have Jesus at the top..... Jesus and a personal relationship with him is the most important aspect of their life. 

To be fair, Jesus Christ is at the foundation - the chief cornerstone...so I suppose you aren't wrong by saying that he is "way down at the bottom".   "The wise man built his house upon a rock". 

Jesus Christ is the centerpiece of the Book of Mormon.

Edited by pogi
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52 minutes ago, snowflake said:

I think your analogy is quite accurate. From what I have read on this board and having been raised in the LDS church, Joseph and the BOM are the most important aspects of the COJCOLDS. Jesus is way down at the bottom, like a footnote. Without Joseph and the BOM, absolutely the LDS church would crumble. The protestants, baptists, lutherans and all other Christians have Jesus at the top..... Jesus and a personal relationship with him is the most important aspect of their life. 

Hopefully no one is judging any organization just by what is written on a message board.  Your characterization of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not accurate. 

“The fundamental principles of our religion is the testimony of the apostles and prophets concerning Jesus Christ, ‘that he died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended up into heaven;’ and all other things [pertaining to our religion] are only appendages to these.”

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/jesus-christ?lang=eng&_r=1

Edited by ksfisher
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37 minutes ago, snowflake said:

I think your analogy is quite accurate. From what I have read on this board and having been raised in the LDS church, Joseph and the BOM are the most important aspects of the COJCOLDS. Jesus is way down at the bottom, like a footnote. Without Joseph and the BOM, absolutely the LDS church would crumble. The protestants, baptists, lutherans and all other Christians have Jesus at the top..... Jesus and a personal relationship with him is the most important aspect of their life. 

I submit that the above is Exhibit 1 in explaining why President Nelson received Divine direction to emphasize to members of the Church whose Church they belong to, whose we are, and at what price we were bought.

Joseph Smith matters only because he spoke with Jesus Christ and the Book of Mormon is relevant only because it is another testament of Jesus Christ.  I’d suggest that characterizing Jesus as a footnote in His Church is to misconstrue the theology of His Church.

I’m sorry if your experience in the Church has led you to hold that opinion.  My experience has led me to believe that the most important aspect of the Church is to invite all to come to Christ, to come to know Him and our Father, that we may have eternal life, and provide tools for us to facilitate our efforts to accept and act on that invitation.

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4 hours ago, snowflake said:

Not sure if you know this or not bth the "fullness of the everlasting gospel" Joseph taught about. is not found in the BOM. 

You can take that up with D&C 27:5... :) The Book of Mormon contains it, which to me qualifies it for its role as the keystone of our religion.

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6 hours ago, Valentinus said:

This is patently false. Christianity could not have survived all the deaths of the original apostles and Jesus's death without the Spirit to guide them. @3DOP, @MiserereNobis and @Spammer...am I off base on this?

The ancient church was not a vessel to bring about Mormonism. Mormonism is a response to 19th century American social and religious culture.

We believe that the Holy Spirit guides and protects the Catholic Church, from Her beginning until today and on through tomorrow.

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On 6/10/2019 at 10:12 AM, pogi said:

..........................................

When we say that the Book of Mormon is the keystone of our religion, we are suggesting that without the keystone, the rest of the arch (religion) would crumble.  But why do we teach this?  Would it really crumble without the Book of Mormon?  What if the church was restored through Joseph Smith and there were no gold plates, no translation, no Book of Mormon... why couldn't the restoration work without it?  What principle, doctrine, or ordinance do we find in the Book of Mormon that could not have been revealed in some other way and recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants?..........................................

It seems clear to me that the true keystone of our religion is revelation.  Remove the Book of Mormon and the restoration would still have been possible with revelation. Remove revelation, and it all crumbles. .................

Among the plethora of claims about truth and the ultimate nature of reality, we always come back to the same elemental question:  How can we know what we know?  Revelation is merely one among many answers to the question about correct epistemology.  We also have science, math, logic, intuition, etc., as competitors in that scramble for the prize -- and revelation is not highly regarded among the most sophisticated thinkers.  So why would revelation be the keystone for anything but a kind of anomalous pentecostal cult?  Why would that not simply be a delusion?  The entire discussion need go no further.

The reason why the Book of Mormon is the keystone, without which all else (including revelation) crumbles, is that it cannot possibly be true.  The entire miraculous account of the coming forth of the BofM (just like the miracles in the Bible) is preposterous and absurd.  Indeed, so absurd that it boggles the mind.  One can dismiss it without even bothering to read it.

The problem is that the Book of Mormon text itself is its own best witness.  Unlike the Bible, however, which we know came down from antiquity, with all manner of miraculous and mythological claims (which can likewise be disregarded), the BofM came to us so recently and so miraculously that it cannot possibly tell any sort of true story about ancient times.  Thus, when we find in the BofM stories of ancient civilizations which can be verified archeologically, we are left with the need to accept the impossible (Arthur Conan Doyle), and the ultimate basis for the impossible (revelation).  Once one has demonstrated that the Bayesian notion of preponderance of evidence leading to truth (statistically likely truth), we are then left with a Bible which is supported by the Book of Mormon, a reversal which should also not be possible.  That is why it is the keystone.  Se my “The Preposterous Book of Mormon: A Singular Advantage,” lecture, August 8, 2014, at the annual FAIRMORMON Conference, Provo, Utah, online at http://www.fairmormon.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/PREPOSTEROUS-BOOK-OF-MORMON.pdf

The LDS religion is orthopractical and hard-edged as a fully naturalistic account of everything, including God -- whose intimate and imminent relationship to us all makes ours an entirely humanistic religion.  Even revelation itself tends then to be a naturalistic mode of communication, which any of us may learn and employ on a regular basis for everything from monitoring the safety of our children to understanding the deep things of God.

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7 hours ago, Valentinus said:

This is patently false. Christianity could not have survived all the deaths of the original apostles and Jesus's death without the Spirit to guide them. @3DOP, @MiserereNobis and @Spammer...am I off base on this?

The ancient church was not a vessel to bring about Mormonism. Mormonism is a response to 19th century American social and religious culture.

 

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

We believe that the Holy Spirit guides and protects the Catholic Church, from Her beginning until today and on through tomorrow.

The Holy Spirit is indeed central to the survival of any faith, as long as it is not grieved or disregarded.  Ancient Israel repeatedly found itself at loggerheads with God, and the prophets were not slow to call them to account through repentance (teshuva).  Even today Judaism demands repentance from its people, a central them in rabbinic teaching.  Yet, the actual Congregation of God, His Chosen, Covenant People chose to go their own way, disregarding the Holy Spirit.  For which they were repeatedly sent into Exile.  They have only recently returned from the longest Exile of all (St Paul gives a hint of this in Romans 11).

The LDS faith posits a series of apostasies in ancient times, along with various restorations, which have been conveniently grouped into dispensations.  There is the dispensation of Noah, for example.  There is no guarantee by God that humans will always obey him, nor that the Holy Spirit will not be withdrawn.  The prophet of the most recent restoration, Joseph Smith, was chosen to restore priesthood authority and correct, holy principles lost back in the early days of the Christian Church.  https://publications.mi.byu.edu/fullscreen/?pub=1088&index=2 .

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On 6/10/2019 at 9:12 AM, pogi said:

We have all heard this quote.  The concept of the Book of Mormon being the keystone of our religion has been taught throughout the history of our church.  I have never really thought twice about it until yesterday when it was taught in Young Men's.  I don't know why this occasion was different from any other, but for the first time the idea seemed strange and didn't make much sense to me.  The idea has been so thoroughly reinforced in the history of our church, from the prophet of the restoration onward; but I wonder if this teaching has reached almost creedal status without any one really questioning it. 

When we say that the Book of Mormon is the keystone of our religion, we are suggesting that without the keystone, the rest of the arch (religion) would crumble.  But why do we teach this?  Would it really crumble without the Book of Mormon?  What if the church was restored through Joseph Smith and there were no gold plates, no translation, no Book of Mormon... why couldn't the restoration work without it?  What principle, doctrine, or ordinance do we find in the Book of Mormon that could not have been revealed in some other way and recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants?

To clarify, I am not suggesting that the Book of Mormon is not significant.  It is.  I believe that it is everything else that Joseph said about the book in the above quote. But, isn't the real keystone of our religion revelation?  Isn't that the stone that holds everything else in place?  Remove that and everything crumbles - including the Book of Mormon as it was translated through a revelatory process.  

The only attempt to defend the teaching has been this - if the book of Mormon is true, then Joseph was a prophet, and if Joseph was a prophet the restoration and everything that came from it is true.  If it is false, then it is all false.  In this way, the attempt is made to place the Book of Mormon in the place of the keystone as if everything leans on it.  But, if you think about it, we could place any other variable in that equation in its place and it would be just as true.  For example, we could say - if Joseph was a prophet, then the restoration is true along with everything that comes from it, including the Book of Mormon, therefore Joseph Smith is the keystone.  Or we could say - if the restoration is true, then Joseph Smith was a prophet, and the Book of Mormon is true, etc.

It seems clear to me that the true keystone of our religion is revelation.  Remove the Book of Mormon and the restoration would still have been possible with revelation. Remove revelation, and it all crumbles. 

Thoughts?

Because it was an in your face revelation. It was proof that God still talks to man. It was the catalyst to re- start the Church of Jesus Christ.

As an EV convert it gave me a clear picture of where the United States place was in the end time prophecies

This was something that had bothered me for two years while studying the Old Testament I could not figure out where we fit.

I'd like to add that I think everyone that was born in the church doesn't understand how it feels to be boxed in with only the Old Testament and the New Testament with no other scriptures. I truly do treasure the Pearl of Great Price, The Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants but the Book of Mormon was the catalyst to bring these others about.

Edited by rodheadlee
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The translation of the Book of Mormon is to Mormonism what the Resurrection is to Christianity.  The truth of Christianity hinges on Christ resurrecting.  For The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, it all hinges on the Book of Mormon being translated.  

But I am going to play Devil's Advocate here.  This does not necessarily mean everything else is legit.  Joseph Smith could have translated the BOM and become a fallen prophet soon after.  Many of the early Saints believed this to me the case.   The Book of Mormon may be true, but how do we know we are the true church rather than the offshoot and remnant groups?

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12 hours ago, CV75 said:

You can take that up with D&C 27:5... :) The Book of Mormon contains it, which to me qualifies it for its role as the keystone of our religion.

Missing from the BOM, church presidency, quorum of the seventy, bishopric, no bishops, no stakes, no branches, no wards, no area presidency, polygamy is forbidden, no baptism for the dead.......should I go on? Are these the "fullness of the everlasting gospel"? 

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14 hours ago, ksfisher said:

Hopefully no one is judging any organization just by what is written on a message board.  Your characterization of members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not accurate. 

“The fundamental principles of our religion is the testimony of the apostles and prophets concerning Jesus Christ, ‘that he died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended up into heaven;’ and all other things [pertaining to our religion] are only appendages to these.”

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/jesus-christ?lang=eng&_r=1

In Mormonism, Jesus is to be viewed as an example......a spiritual brother.......he is not worshiped, adored, prayed to...God in Flesh as the other Christian sects see him. 

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Regarding Jesus as the incarnation of the God of the Old Testament, that is "God in Flesh":

Quote

The evidence that the first Christians identified Jesus with the God of the Jews is overwhelming; it was their customary way of reading the Old Testament. The appearances of Yahweh or the angel of Yahweh were read as manifestations of the pre-existent Christ. The Son of God was their name for Yahweh. This can be seen clearly in the writings of Paul who applied several ‘Lord’ texts to Jesus. . . . Now Paul, though completely at home in the Greek world, claimed to have been the strictest of Jews, educated in Jerusalem and zealous for the traditions of his people. How is it that he, of all people, could distinguish between God and Lord as he did in 1 Corinthians, if this was not already a part of first century Jewish belief? He emphasized that this distinction was fundamental to his belief: “there is one God, the Father . . . and one Lord, Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 8:6). This is, to say the least, a remarkable contradiction of Deuteronomy 6:4, if he understood that verse in the way that we do, as a statement of monotheism. If, on the other hand, it was a statement of the unity of Yahweh as the one inclusive summing up of all the heavenly powers, the ‘elohim, then it would have been compatible with belief in God Most High also.  (Barker, Barker, The Great Angel, 192–93 )

Barker's The Great Angel: A Study of Israel's Second God makes this case in detail, showing the original distinction between El Elyon, God Most High, and his son, Yahweh, the Holy One of Israel, the Lord of Hosts.  And it also happens to be the clear message of the Book of Mormon:

Quote

If we take the Book of Mormon at face value and accept the time and place that it asserts for itself, read in light of Barker’s work, the context presupposes a reading in which Jehovah is Jesus, the Son of the Most High. And that is what the Book of Mormon clearly says:

And when I had spoken these words, the Spirit cried with a loud voice, saying: Hosanna to the Lord, the most high God; for he is God over all the earth, yea, even above all. And blessed art thou, Nephi, because thou believest in the Son of the most high God; wherefore, thou shalt behold the things which thou hast desired.123

And now it came to pass that when Jesus had ended these sayings he cast his eyes round about on the multitude, and said unto them: Behold, ye have heard the things which I taught before I ascended to my Father; therefore, whoso remembereth these sayings of mine and doeth them, him will I raise up at the last day . . . Behold, I am he that gave the law, and I am he who covenanted with my people Israel; therefore, the law in me is fulfilled, for I have come to fulfil the law; therefore it hath an end.

https://publications.mi.byu.edu/fullscreen/?pub=2694&index=4

Brant Gardner has an exceptionally good description of how this all works.

https://www.fairmormon.org/conference/august-2003/monotheism-messiah-and-mormons-book

FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

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43 minutes ago, snowflake said:

Missing from the BOM, church presidency, quorum of the seventy, bishopric, no bishops, no stakes, no branches, no wards, no area presidency, polygamy is forbidden, no baptism for the dead.......should I go on? Are these the "fullness of the everlasting gospel"? 

Those are not the fulness of the everlasting gospel, and there are more such things yet to be revealed and restored. They are "appendages"* that can be traced to that which is uniquely set forth in the Book of Mormon as the "fullness of the everlasting gospel."

*“The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it. But in connection with these, we believe in the gift of the Holy Ghost, the power of faith, the enjoyment of the spiritual gifts according to the will of God, the restoration of the house of Israel, and the final triumph of truth.” (Joseph Smith)

"He said there was a book deposited, written upon gold plates, giving an account of the former inhabitants of this continent, and the source from whence they sprang. He also said that the fulness of the everlasting Gospel was contained in it, as delivered by the Savior to the ancient inhabitants..." (Joseph Smith) Some might construe that last phrase as a limitation as to what the Savior taught the Nephites, but we can't have much more of a fulness than His personal declaration of His Good News, doctrine and acts that were given them. Concerning the latter, all manner of organization, practices, sealing power, etc. can be seen in those pages and elsewhere in the Book of Mormon.

All revelation is useless without the "fullness of the everlasting gospel," which to me culminates in charity.

Edited by CV75
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