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Rajah Manchou

Ancestors of Navajo Arrive by Boat around 3000-2000 BC

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"The first wave of migrants arrived in North America before 14,500 years ago, likely by crossing the Bering Strait land bridge during the last ice age. But as that ice age ended and glaciers melted, sea levels rose, flooding the land bridge. After that, archaeological evidence suggests that the next major wave of people arrived about 5,000 years ago, likely by boat, Schiffels said. This is the group of people studied in the new research."

https://www.livescience.com/65649-paleo-american-genes-survive-today.html

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"Both studies examined human migration across the Bering Strait and found evidence of migration back into Siberia from the Americas. Copenhagen's Willerslev and his colleagues found, for instance, that individuals from about 2,000-year-old Neo-Eskimo sites harbored 69 percent Ancient Paleo-Siberian and 31 percent Native American ancestry. Similarly, Harvard's Reich and his colleagues found evidence of at least three separate crossings of the Bering Strait." 

 https://www.genomeweb.com/sequencing/complex-human-movements-siberia-american-arctic-traced-ancient-dna-studies#.XPub2tMzY1I

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The New World genetic picture keeps getting more complex;

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Native American groups from the Amazon rainforest — also known as Amazonia — derive a fraction of their ancestry from a population that is more closely related to the Onge from the Andaman Islands in the Bay of Bengal, New Guineans, Papuans and indigenous Australians than it is to present-day Eurasians or Native Americans.  https://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2015/0722/Scientists-find-genetic-link-between-Native-Americans-and-Pacific-Islanders .

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. . . some Amazonian Native Americans descend partly from a Native American founding population that carried ancestry more closely related to indigenous Australians, New Guineans and Andaman Islanders than to any present-day Eurasians or Native Americans.   https://www.nature.com/articles/nature14895 .

 

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2 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

Is the point of posting findings like these to give apologists a hope that they can use science to confirm their faith in a historical BoM?  It just seems like doing that is a fruitless endeavor in the long run. 

For Rajah Manchou, at least, his argument is that Malaysia is the land of the Book of Mormon, and he enjoys keeping abreast of the latest in scientific discoveries.  Since I was trained in anthropology and archeology, I take a professional interest.  What I have a hard time understanding is the phenomenon of science denial, whether it deals with climate change (global warming), genetics, modern physics, or the exploration of the universe.  I believe that the study of STEM fields pays big dividends, and most so-called "apologists" and their critics have no idea what that means.

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11 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The New World genetic picture keeps getting more complex;

U9NQ0jItQl-3000x3000.png

A new paper was published last November confirming the Andaman/Malay Peninsula and Australasian signals in South America. The diagram on the left shows how out of place this admixture is.

Early human dispersals within the Americas

Here's a less technical summary.

 

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11 hours ago, Rajah Manchou said:

U9NQ0jItQl-3000x3000.png

A new paper was published last November confirming the Andaman/Malay Peninsula and Australasian signals in South America. The diagram on the left shows how out of place this admixture is.

Early human dispersals within the Americas

Here's a less technical summary.

 

Have you read/heard of Graham Hancock’s new book, “America Before: The Key to Earth’s Lost Civilization”? I heard an interview he gave, and his comments on how archeologists have been stuck in a box when it came to thinking outside the “Clovis First” theory.  

He made an interesting comment that based on the most recent evidence, there’s no way people could have made the journey to the Americas any other way except by boat on the Pacific, but it makes absolutely no practical sense...

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

For Rajah Manchou, at least, his argument is that Malaysia is the land of the Book of Mormon, and he enjoys keeping abreast of the latest in scientific discoveries.  Since I was trained in anthropology and archeology, I take a professional interest.  What I have a hard time understanding is the phenomenon of science denial, whether it deals with climate change (global warming), genetics, modern physics, or the exploration of the universe.  I believe that the study of STEM fields pays big dividends, and most so-called "apologists" and their critics have no idea what that means.

My son teaches STEM and robotics on the high school level, and it is absolutely exploding as field. 

His students have won a lot of robotics Awards.

Starting with this in high school is a giant leap forward

No more auto shop.

STEM applies for kids going into trades as well as science and technology advanced degrees. They get to try it out and see if they have aptitude in these areas.

Edited by mfbukowski
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11 hours ago, Rajah Manchou said:

I'm always mystified when people with unsupportable beliefs mock facts to make their beliefs seem more believable.

Is there a place I can see your whole theory in a condensed format?

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1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

Is there a place I can see your whole theory in a condensed format?

You can see it nicely mapped online at http://bookofmormon.online/map/malay .

For full discussion, see Brant A. Gardner, “Testing a Methodology: A Malaysian Setting for the Book of Mormon,” InterpreterBlog, Dec 29, 2013, online at https://interpreterfoundation.org/blog-testing-a-methodology-a-malaysian-setting-for-the-book-of-mormon/ .

However, Rajah likely has additional comments to make since Brant's review of the Olsen theory may not take adequate account of Rajah's views -- if at all.

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2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

You can see it nicely mapped online at http://bookofmormon.online/map/malay .

For full discussion, see Brant A. Gardner, “Testing a Methodology: A Malaysian Setting for the Book of Mormon,” InterpreterBlog, Dec 29, 2013, online at https://interpreterfoundation.org/blog-testing-a-methodology-a-malaysian-setting-for-the-book-of-mormon/ .

However, Rajah likely has additional comments to make since Brant's review of the Olsen theory may not take adequate account of Rajah's views -- if at all.

Thanks Bob.

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2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

You can see it nicely mapped online at https://

This map is not mine. It is based on Ralph Olsen's model from several years back and it doesn't take into account the discovery of Southeast Asia's first civilization dating to 582 BC.

This is the model I propose, all points align with archaeological sites dating to the correct time period. To this day, the ancient kingdom located in the heart of the peninsula is identified with a founding warrior named Maroni. That one correspondence alone is so specific that I feel this model requires attention.

Land Southwardoldest civilization in SE Asia appears in 582 BC, the same decade the Lehites depart Jerusalem.
Land of Zarahemla: the capital city of Srah in the middle of the peninsula dates to Zarahemla time period. Srah is surrounded by subordinate coastal city-states.
Land Northward: Manoron (Moron) and Teincun (Teancum).

This entire region was called Komorriya in the 5th century AD. The land adjacent was known as Rahma. This corresponds to Cumorah in the 5th century AD and the land of Ramah in the Book of Mormon. The southern part of the peninsula was known as Lamai or Lamia, which I believe corresponds to the Lamanite civilization. Lamanite is an alternative spelling found in the region. 

Brant Gardner's discussion in Mormon Interpreter is also a review of Olsen's theory and doesn't take into consideration all the new content I've shared with him. I've resolved the points of concern in the article and have identified hundreds of additional correspondences.

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6 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Thanks Bob.

Please see above. Apart from all the correspondences above, the most interesting element is the identification of the Malay Archipelago as the Rechabite's Abode of the Blessed in 1st-5th century AD Judeo-Christian texts. 

If the Lehites were Rechabites, as High Nibley has suggested, the Book of Mormon does begin to appear as a historical document of that region.

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Posted (edited)

Sorry premature question without reading the material. Deleted.

Edited by mfbukowski

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1 hour ago, Rajah Manchou said:

This map is not mine. It is based on Ralph Olsen's model from several years back and it doesn't take into account the discovery of Southeast Asia's first civilization dating to 582 BC.

...................

Brant Gardner's discussion in Mormon Interpreter is also a review of Olsen's theory and doesn't take into consideration all the new content I've shared with him. I've resolved the points of concern in the article and have identified hundreds of additional correspondences.

Yes, I mentioned in my post that it was Olsen's theory.  I imagine that he would be tickled pink to see what you have done, and I am frankly amazed.  Your YouTube videos explaining and demonstrating what the theory entails are brilliant and clear.  Your presentation even makes more sense and is more well grounded than the Heartland Theory.  I take it that you have been following the 8-part Interpreter review of the Heartland Theory presented in their new Annotated Edition of the Book of Mormon (Digital Legend, 2018), which is printed in Hong Kong.

Seems to me that your work is now ready for prime time.  When are you going to present in public?  Maybe to coincide with your forthcoming book?

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26 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Yes, I mentioned in my post that it was Olsen's theory.  I imagine that he would be tickled pink to see what you have done, and I am frankly amazed.  Your YouTube videos explaining and demonstrating what the theory entails are brilliant and clear.  Your presentation even makes more sense and is more well grounded than the Heartland Theory.  I take it that you have been following the 8-part Interpreter review of the Heartland Theory presented in their new Annotated Edition of the Book of Mormon (Digital Legend, 2018), which is printed in Hong Kong.

Seems to me that your work is now ready for prime time.  When are you going to present in public?  Maybe to coincide with your forthcoming book?

You Tube? Please link....

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18 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Yes, I mentioned in my post that it was Olsen's theory.  I imagine that he would be tickled pink to see what you have done, and I am frankly amazed.  Your YouTube videos explaining and demonstrating what the theory entails are brilliant and clear.  Your presentation even makes more sense and is more well grounded than the Heartland Theory.  I take it that you have been following the 8-part Interpreter review of the Heartland Theory presented in their new Annotated Edition of the Book of Mormon (Digital Legend, 2018), which is printed in Hong Kong.

Seems to me that your work is now ready for prime time.  When are you going to present in public?  Maybe to coincide with your forthcoming book?

More Book of Mormon Historical Revisionism by Robert F Smith and Rajah Manchou.

As if The Book of Mormon were subject to private interpretations because a theory is “brilliant and clear.” (The Malay Archipelago. ROTFL.)

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1834-1836/90

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18 minutes ago, Burnside said:

The Malay Archipelago. ROTFL.

I'll be the first to admit it is absurd. Still can't make sense of it. But somehow it fits, whereas other models don't. 

Quote

More Book of Mormon Historical Revisionism by Robert F Smith and Rajah Manchou.

And more to come, stay tuned.

But while you're here, can you identify any problems with the maps I've linked above? I've had several experts look at it and the internal map of the Book of Mormon fits, down to the distances, dates and names. 

If you have doubts, I extend a challenge to identify anything in the geography or history of Southeast Asia between 589BC and 420AD that doesn't line up with the text of the Book of Mormon. If this was a joke, it should be easy to disprove right? Go for it.

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7 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

My son teaches STEM and robotics on the high school level, and it is absolutely exploding as field. 

His students have won a lot of robotics Awards.

Starting with this in high school is a giant leap forward

No more auto shop.

STEM applies for kids going into trades as well as science and technology advanced degrees. They get to try it out and see if they have aptitude in these areas.

My auto mechanic makes better money than I did as a school teacher.

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38 minutes ago, Rajah Manchou said:

I'll be the first to admit it is absurd. Still can't make sense of it. But somehow it fits, whereas other models don't. 

And more to come, stay tuned.

But while you're here, can you identify any problems with the maps I've linked above? I've had several experts look at it and the internal map of the Book of Mormon fits, down to the distances, dates and names. 

If you have doubts, I extend a challenge to identify anything in the geography or history of Southeast Asia between 589BC and 420AD that doesn't line up with the text of the Book of Mormon. If this was a joke, it should be easy to disprove right? Go for it.

Post You Tube link. I’d like to take a look. 

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Posted (edited)

Just as a point of interest, in 1999, Native American scholar Vine DeLoria, not a fan of the Bering Strait migration, wrote,

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"Several traditional people did not want evidence on the Bering Strait offered because they preferred to rely on their own view of how th Sioux people had come to be. Some wanted to take about an origin from an underground world near Wind Cave, South Dakota; others thought that stories about living in or near the Gulf of Mexico would be sufficient; and still others wanted to discuss the stories about living in the Far North.....American Indians, as a general rule, have aggressively opposed the Bering Strait migration doctrine because it does not reflect the memories or traditions passed down by the ancestors over generations. Some tribes speak of transoceanic migrations in boats, the Hopis and Colvilles for example, and others speak of the experience of a creation, such as the Yakimas and other Pacific Northwest tribes. Some tribes even talk about migrations from other planets. The Sioux, Salish, and Cheyenne remember their life in the Far north, which featured entirely different climatic condition than we find today....some tribal traditions do speak of ice and snow, which may be memories of North American glaciation.....most of these talks begin with the supposition that these groups re already present in North America prior to the onset of glaciations and quite possibly were observers of some of the climatic events of the Ice Age....

"The argument over the validity of the Bering Strait doctrine might continue indefinitely, as most scholars are not inclined to take seriously the kinds of objections that skeptics raise. We need some additional evidence on one sei or another to tip the scales and force a genuine reappraisal of the idea and the creations of a reasonable alternative."

While he was highly critical of the scientific (and anthropological) problems created or not answered by the Bering Strait theory, perhaps his thoughts are now outdated and DNA evidence is what might tip the scale. I don't know if any Native Americans have recently addressed this issue.

DeLoria also wrote of other migrations supposedly across a land bridge to and from Asia,

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I can't imagine thousands or perhaps millions of horses and camels struggling to get through the MacKenzie Mountains, or perhaps stampeding up Skagway Pass, crossing over the land bridge, and then being confronted with approximately a dozen rugged mountain ranges that they had to traverse before they found a home in the steppes of Asia. Did they suddenly change their diet, for the purposes of migration, from grass and tree bark and tundra, or yearn for the Asian steppes in some mystical vision?  ....I cannot imagine the largest land mammal who ever lived [the giant rhinoceros baluchitherium], four feet higher than the Imperial mammoth, moving by the thousands through the western Canadian mountains and trying desperately to get across the Bering Strait to Asia before the sea level rose again. Nor can I imagine forests of palm, oak, and walnut moving majestically west from Alaska to Siberia. I have great difficulty conceiving of their means of locomotion - other than the fantasy of scholars...

Vine DeLoria. Spirit and Reason: The Vine DeLoria Reader. Fulcrum Publishing, 1999, "Low Bridge, Everyone Cross," pp. 78-100. 

Edited by Bernard Gui
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1 hour ago, Burnside said:

More Book of Mormon Historical Revisionism by Robert F Smith and Rajah Manchou.

As if The Book of Mormon were subject to private interpretations because a theory is “brilliant and clear.” (The Malay Archipelago. ROTFL.)

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1834-1836/90

Yes, Oliver Cowdery Letter VII, to Phelps.  Only the blatant dishonesty of a troll would leave that fact out.

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