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Metis_LDS

The One Thing members do not like to talk about

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8 minutes ago, CV75 said:

well I prefer: Louis Armstrong - When The Saints Go Marching In

Our HS band would play this when we came out of the locker room and took the field, "O when the Bees come marchin' in!"

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Metis_LDS said:

They have already been waiting a long time before the resurrection starts.

When compared to eternity, drop in the bucket.

I wonder if when it is time to be resurrected if our spirits will simply attract useful loose molecules, whether according to the pattern of our spiritual appearance or our physical mortal body or a combo.  One way to keep dust down.

Current physical appearance is a result to a great extent of our mortal parents' DNA, but it has been taught our spiritual bodies are similar to our physical ones in terms of arms, legs, head, etc.  Add to that the teaching that spirit matter is matter more refined, does that mean our spirits have DNA as well?  If so, it would seem likely to be very different from physical DNA.

If so, seems likely that spiritual DNA would have a great effect on our eternal bodies.

If we have divine powers, we might even be able to alter our own DNA and change our appearance (what I am hoping for).

Edited by Calm
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I think we will care a lot less about our appearance there.  This is my opinion based on personal experience of my own maturity. 

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24 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

I was pretty sure that the answer to the topic line would be "sex". Glad I was wrong! I personally don't believe we will be resurrected with the same matter our earthly bodies are composed of. If so we will be fighting with other animals and people over the components unless we are resurrected immediately upon death. Our decomposed bodies will be shared with many other life forms through time and space.

I am really UPSET that I can only give you one Like!

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23 minutes ago, USU78 said:

Our HS band would play this when we came out of the locker room and took the field, "O when the Bees come marchin' in!"

I think we have a new resurrection motif!

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2 hours ago, Metis_LDS said:

Well just based on logic it could be one explanation of why the events are not all at once. It could also be nothing.

Makes more sense to me people are resurrected when it is first possible (after Christ's resurrection), when ready (probably continuous), as well as needed (sounds like not too many needed before Millennium).

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3 hours ago, Metis_LDS said:

Personally I feel that many persons do not want to know how God really does things, it spoils something for them to know more of the nuts and bolts. For myself I see the mind of God in the nuts and bolts.

I agree with you.  I do think that often people don't want to peek behind 'the story', and when they do, they feel forbidden and lost.  And, indeed, who has got time for it all?

And when I myself lift 'the curtain' and push through to understand the real time implications and consequences of 'the story', it often leads me to places that are very strange and really not at all what I once thought the story meant.  And thus I find myself wondering, was I supposed to look?  i.e. according to the general authorities, according to God?  And the answer maybe 'yes' I was supposed to look, or 'no', 'the story' was supposed to satisfy you.  I'm still not sure.

For example, simply pondering on the length of eternity and the number of beings in eternity . . . and what we've been doing, some are doing now, and will be doing . . . it actually leads me, at least, to very different conclusions than what gets said across a pulpit or even in scripture.

But I like exploring and taking it to rubber-meets-the road conclusion.

And, for that matter, I question this way about every establishment story--the government story, the education story, the gender story, the science story, the medicine story, the history story--it's all story and most stories don't hold up under too much push back i.e. thinking and learning a little more.

Edited by Maidservant
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3 hours ago, Rain said:

share body parts

Not to mention that our own bodies right now are not a static, solid object.  The atomic bits are always get swapped out and put in (not to mention the bio bits i.e new cells).  So we are a body NOT because of the particular atoms that make us up at any given moment but rather due to some organizing principle that constantly organizes whatever atoms it can lay a hold upon, according to a 'blueprint'.

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4 hours ago, Metis_LDS said:

This is not about me being hard on the members of the Church.  But if you think it is feel free to say so.  So the one thing I have found radioactive to discuss in class or out of class is where will our perfected bodies come from?  All that I know points to God not being a magician.  The perfected bodies will not appear out of nowhere.  Things also seem to point to a limited capacity of supply,  as in multiple resurrections.  So the main point is why do members get excited (not in a good way) when I start to ask about where the bodies are going to come from?

Not in a million years have I heard this question. I have taught Gospel Doctrine for almost twenty years - not once has this been brought up. Hard to think this would be any different than any other question. 

 

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36 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

Not in a million years have I heard this question. I have taught Gospel Doctrine for almost twenty years - not once has this been brought up. Hard to think this would be any different than any other question. 

 

Well if you believe that your earthly body will be restored to an immortal one then there is no question to ask.   Can we all agree that say for what is called the First resurrection that all those spirits will have been in one place (generally) before they were resurrected.  If that is correct would it not make sense to have the bodies nearby.   A perfect body needs to be joined to a spirit then you have a resurrection.  Many have spoken of the ordinance of resurrection.  Do not most ordinances have a place to be performed in.  I know that Joseph Smith talked about rising out of his grave and meeting family etc...  but this would be quite a lot of labour.  The spirit would have to get to the graveside so would those performing the ordinance.                                                                                                                                                                           Brigham Young

Some person holding the keys of the resurrection, having previously passed through that ordeal, will be delegated to resurrect our bodies, and our spirits will be there and prepared to enter into their bodies. (Discourses of Brigham Young, p.373)   

Edited by Metis_LDS
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5 hours ago, Metis_LDS said:

So the one thing I have found radioactive to discuss in class or out of class is where will our perfected bodies come from?  

You know we all HATE talking about this subject, and you just couldn't resist bringing it up anyway, could you!?  Thanks for ruining my day Metis! 

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5 hours ago, Metis_LDS said:

This is not about me being hard on the members of the Church.  But if you think it is feel free to say so.  So the one thing I have found radioactive to discuss in class or out of class is where will our perfected bodies come from?  All that I know points to God not being a magician.  The perfected bodies will not appear out of nowhere.  Things also seem to point to a limited capacity of supply,  as in multiple resurrections.  So the main point is why do members get excited (not in a good way) when I start to ask about where the bodies are going to come from?

?????????????????????

 

The reality is we don't know, just like we don't know how Spirit children are born.  There's a lot of stuff out there like this and we are exhorted to not dwell on "mysteries".

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5 hours ago, Metis_LDS said:

This is not about me being hard on the members of the Church.  But if you think it is feel free to say so.  So the one thing I have found radioactive to discuss in class or out of class is where will our perfected bodies come from?  All that I know points to God not being a magician.  The perfected bodies will not appear out of nowhere.  Things also seem to point to a limited capacity of supply,  as in multiple resurrections.  So the main point is why do members get excited (not in a good way) when I start to ask about where the bodies are going to come from?

This op is all I have read...but LDS or not....I am counting on hearing again.  I will take magic...whatever!!😊  I am hoping all people who are disabled can walk, see and be whole.  I dunno...but I am countin' on it.  People probably don't want to talk about it because they are countin' on it too.  If not...do not raise me from dead...

Edited by Jeanne
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5 hours ago, Metis_LDS said:

This is not about me being hard on the members of the Church.  But if you think it is feel free to say so.  So the one thing I have found radioactive to discuss in class or out of class is where will our perfected bodies come from?  All that I know points to God not being a magician.  The perfected bodies will not appear out of nowhere.  Things also seem to point to a limited capacity of supply,  as in multiple resurrections.  So the main point is why do members get excited (not in a good way) when I start to ask about where the bodies are going to come from?

"Now these mysteries are not yet fully made known unto me; therefore I shall forbear." Alma.

Have they been made fully known to you? :search:

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6 hours ago, Metis_LDS said:

This is not about me being hard on the members of the Church.  But if you think it is feel free to say so.  So the one thing I have found radioactive to discuss in class or out of class is where will our perfected bodies come from?  All that I know points to God not being a magician.  The perfected bodies will not appear out of nowhere.  Things also seem to point to a limited capacity of supply,  as in multiple resurrections.  So the main point is why do members get excited (not in a good way) when I start to ask about where the bodies are going to come from?

It only follows that if mother's give birth to mortal bodies, then father's will give birth to resurrected bodies.  It's only fair!  "The first shall be last and the last shall be first."    

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3 hours ago, USU78 said:

I prefer:

 

Not as flashy as Pavarotti, but yeh.  I sang Handel's Messiah in a choir in Israel during 1967-68 (Xmas & Easter), with our final big show at the Jerusalem YMCA auditorium.  We had a Jewish chamber orchestra, and a Jewish soloist singing in Hebrew.  The Jews gave us a standing ovation, clearly valuing good music (and the Hallelujah chorus).

Here's another nice one with a Jewish orchestra outdoors along the walls of Jerusalem, accompanying Charlotte Church:  

 

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Right now our bodies are made out of a conglomeration of atoms. When we die, our atoms return to the universe (probably stays on earth and are recycled into other material). When we are resurrected, I am assuming, that our bodies will again be made of atoms. Will we need to re-grow from a single cell again? Not sure. Can God just form bodies out of atoms, like a puzzle? Not sure. I'm not sure it even matters at this point in our progress how it is done. But it will be done and I am guessing a few of us will eventually learn how it is done.

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6 hours ago, bluebell said:

I'm not sure what you mean by there seeming to be a limited capacity.  Can you clarify?

There is a finite amount of matter in the world. Most (if not all) of that matter has been used more than once to host a spirit being (human or otherwise). You know, dust thou art and all that stuff. Does the last person (or otherwise) who used the matter get it in the resurrection? Will matter be brought from other worlds? The logistics of the resurrection is not as simple as the words that describe it.

That said, I don't think this is a make or break topic. It truly is one of those peripheral topics that is irrelevant to the truth claims of the church.

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1. Didn´t someone recently ask a limited (matter?) question recently?

2. It does get a little troublesome if we assume that it will be our bodies (now/at the time of death/translation) that will have a direct connection with our resurrected bodies (whether in LDS view or non-LDS Christian view) because our bodies are certain to have some atoms that were in previous people´s bodies and very likely only more and more as time passes and generation after generations lives and dies in the same areas.

3. Technically, the words ¨resurrection¨ and ¨glorified¨ indicate that such a connection (as in #2) will exist between our dead body and our new one. This does raise the specter of possibly limited supply, especially with ¨eternal increase¨. But if there never was a time that there weren´t gods and men, then it would seem that the LDS theology assumes a similarly unlimited amount of matter.

Definitely problematic for matter never being created and non-ex-nihilo-ism, though...

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Posted (edited)

1. Didn´t someone recently start an OP on a limited (matter?) question recently?

2. It does get a little troublesome if we assume that it will be our bodies (now/at the time of death/translation) that will have a direct connection with our resurrected bodies (whether in LDS view or non-LDS Christian view) because our bodies are certain to have some atoms that were in previous people´s bodies and very likely only more and more as time passes and generations after generations live and die in the same areas.

3. Technically, the words ¨resurrection¨ and ¨glorified¨ indicate that such a connection (as in #2) will exist between our dead body and our new one. This does raise the specter of possibly limited supply, particularly with the LDS teachings of ¨eternal increase¨ and physical (matter) bodies. But if there never was a time that there weren´t gods and men, then it would seem that the LDS theology assumes a similarly unlimited amount of matter.

Infinite matter seems problematic for matter never being created and non-ex-nihilo-ism, though...

Edited by Joshua Valentine
site did weird reset of save button as if not saved and didn´t notice until too late.
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Posted (edited)

1. Didn´t someone recently start an OP on a limited (matter?) question recently?

2. It does get a little troublesome if we assume that it will be our bodies (now/at the time of death/translation) that will have a direct connection with our resurrected bodies (whether in LDS view or non-LDS Christian view) because our bodies are certain to have some atoms that were in previous people´s bodies and very likely only more and more as time passes and generations after generations live and die in the same areas.

3. Technically, the words ¨resurrection¨ and ¨glorified¨ indicate that such a connection (as in #2) will exist between our dead body and our new one. This does raise the specter of possibly limited supply, particularly with the LDS teachings of ¨eternal increase¨ and physical (matter) bodies. But if there never was a time that there weren´t gods and men, then it would seem that the LDS theology assumes a similarly unlimited amount of matter.

Infinite matter seems problematic for matter never being created and non-ex-nihilo-ism, though...

Edited by Joshua Valentine
My comment seems to being gong infinite...
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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Metis_LDS said:

This is not about me being hard on the members of the Church.  But if you think it is feel free to say so.  So the one thing I have found radioactive to discuss in class or out of class is where will our perfected bodies come from?  All that I know points to God not being a magician.  The perfected bodies will not appear out of nowhere.  Things also seem to point to a limited capacity of supply,  as in multiple resurrections.  So the main point is why do members get excited (not in a good way) when I start to ask about where the bodies are going to come from?

Pretty simple

We don't talk about it because we don't understand the physics of spirit matter. It's supposedly more refined but if you take the refining out of it does it become regular matter?

I would assume that if matter can become energy energy can become matter.

And even those are meaningless words if we try to understand them the way we should. Language doesn't do it.

We need to learn that religion is not about physics it is about the path we take in life to understand the universe. As Galileo said it teaches us how to go to heaven, even if it's right here inside of us, not how the heavens go.

Edited by mfbukowski
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Thinking said:

There is a finite amount of matter in the world. Most (if not all) of that matter has been used more than once to host a spirit being (human or otherwise). You know, dust thou art and all that stuff. Does the last person (or otherwise) who used the matter get it in the resurrection? Will matter be brought from other worlds? The logistics of the resurrection is not as simple as the words that describe it.

That said, I don't think this is a make or break topic. It truly is one of those peripheral topics that is irrelevant to the truth claims of the church.

I don't think any part of the word 'resurrection' (which means restoring dead people to a perfect glorified body that will never die again for all of eternity) sounds simple.  In fact, when compared to all of that, finding the matter to do it wouldn't seem to be the toughest problem on the table by a long shot.

There maybe a finite amount of matter in the world, but is there a finite amount of perfected glorified matter in the world?  Spirits are made of matter, but we don't have the knowledge yet to understand that.  We probably shouldnt assume that resurrected bodies are only made up of the finite matter around us. 

But I agree that the topic is irrelevant to the truth claims of the church.  :) 

Edited by bluebell
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

"Now these mysteries are not yet fully made known unto me; therefore I shall forbear." Alma.

Have they been made fully known to you? :search:

No they have not.  But I thought it might be a change from talking about sexuality,  and the Church leaders screwing up.

Edited by Metis_LDS
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