The One Thing members do not like to talk about

[Carborendum]

42 minutes ago, snowflake said:

That is incorrect, the universe is not infinite. The elements in the universe are not infinite. 

I'm not entirely certain that we know that scientifically or theologically.

[The Nehor]

45 minutes ago, snowflake said:

That is incorrect, the universe is not infinite. The elements in the universe are not infinite. 

According to our current understanding but we know relatively little about the nature of the universe.

[The Nehor]

46 minutes ago, snowflake said:

That is incorrect, the universe is not infinite. The elements in the universe are not infinite. 

According to our current understanding but we know relatively little about the nature of the universe.

[Metis_LDS]

On 6/5/2019 at 10:49 PM, Bernard Gui said:

"Now these mysteries are not yet fully made known unto me; therefore I shall forbear." Alma.

Have they been made fully known to you? 

I found this Alma scripture you quoted Alma 37:11 and I can truthfully say that the mystery of the preservation of the plates has not been made know to me either.  I feel better now that I have confessed this.

[Bob Crockett]

On 6/6/2019 at 12:57 PM, snowflake said:

That is incorrect, the universe is not infinite. The elements in the universe are not infinite. 

"There is no end to matter; There is no end to space .... There is no end to being."   ("If You Could Hie to Kolob," Hymns, no. 257.)

Edited June 7, 2019 by Bob Crockett

[Calm]

7 hours ago, Metis_LDS said:

While it is difficult to tell peoples ages on the board there are clues sometimes for an age range.  So I am getting the message that younger people are more willing to talk about a subject like this one.  I do not know if this is good or not but it sure is a change from my generation (over sixty).

I am 60 and love to speculate about how things work.  Would be doing lots more in this thread, but kind of tired and it is the typing part that is stopping me, not speculating.

Edited June 6, 2019 by Calm

[USU78]

11 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

There is no end to matter; There is no end to space .... There is no end to being   ("If You Could Hie to Kolob," Hymns, no. 257.)

And there's this from Moses 1:

 

Quote

 

3 And God spake unto Moses, saying: Behold, I am the Lord God ^aAlmighty, and ^bEndless is my ^cname; for I am without beginning of days or end of years; and is not this endless?

4 And, behold, thou art my son; wherefore ^alook, and I will show thee the ^bworkmanship of mine ^chands; but not all, for my ^dworks are without ^eend, and also my ^fwords, for they never cease.

 

 

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, Metis_LDS said:

I found this Alma scripture you quoted Alma 37:11 and I can truthfully say that the mystery of the preservation of the plates has not been made know to me either.  I feel better now that I have confessed this.

Many mysteries have not been made known to us. Probably many more than the mysteries that have been made known to us. BTW, if I have come across as antagonistic or critical, I apologize. It is not my intent. We agree on much, I think. 

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

On 6/5/2019 at 12:02 PM, Metis_LDS said:

This is not about me being hard on the members of the Church.  But if you think it is feel free to say so.  So the one thing I have found radioactive to discuss in class or out of class is where will our perfected bodies come from?  All that I know points to God not being a magician.  The perfected bodies will not appear out of nowhere.  Things also seem to point to a limited capacity of supply,  as in multiple resurrections.  So the main point is why do members get excited (not in a good way) when I start to ask about where the bodies are going to come from?

I wish to remain respectful, so I pray my response is viewed in that light. 

Asking a question such as this, only encourages members to engage in total speculation. It serves no purpose for which the class is designed, which is to provide instruction of the scriptures, and the understanding of the lessons of scripture. It also robs both teacher and student of the goal of learning that allows them to live more Spiritual lives. Also, speaking of God the Father, though his Son, Jesus Christ, who created all things as some kind of “magician”, is an attempt to put him on the same level as some, Las Vegas act. Either way, nothing you claim, or purpose is little more than an attempt to trivialize the mission of the Church. You may ask in class whatever you like, but these questions would only be self serving, and an attempt to bring attention to yourself, and to disrupt the class you are are attending. Don’t get me wrong, such questions here, may be fine. But doing so in class, not! 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Metis_LDS]

4 minutes ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

I wish to remain respectful, so I pray my response is viewed in that light. 

Asking a question such as this, only encourages members to engage in total speculation. It serves no purpose for which the class is designed, which is to provide instruction of the scriptures, and the understanding of the lessons of scripture. It also robs both teacher and student of the goal of learning that allows them to live more Spiritual lives. Also, speaking of God the Father, though his Son, Jesus Christ, who created all things as some kind of “magician”, is an attempt to put him on the same level as some, Las Vegas act. Either way, nothing you claim, or purpose is little more than an attempt to trivialize the mission of the Church. You may ask in class whatever you like, but these questions would only be self serving, and an attempt to bring attention to yourself, and to disrupt the class you are are attending. Don’t get me wrong, such questions here, may be fine. But doing so in class, not! 

If you check my original post at the start of this thread you will see that I said             "All that I know points to God not being a magician."  I am sorry you are having a bad day, truly I am.

[Metis_LDS]

Well campers there maybe someday a lack of people that will want to start threads, if that happens I will not have to wonder why.

[Metis_LDS]

38 minutes ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

I wish to remain respectful, so I pray my response is viewed in that light. 

Asking a question such as this, only encourages members to engage in total speculation. It serves no purpose for which the class is designed, which is to provide instruction of the scriptures, and the understanding of the lessons of scripture. It also robs both teacher and student of the goal of learning that allows them to live more Spiritual lives. Also, speaking of God the Father, though his Son, Jesus Christ, who created all things as some kind of “magician”, is an attempt to put him on the same level as some, Las Vegas act. Either way, nothing you claim, or purpose is little more than an attempt to trivialize the mission of the Church. You may ask in class whatever you like, but these questions would only be self serving, and an attempt to bring attention to yourself, and to disrupt the class you are are attending. Don’t get me wrong, such questions here, may be fine. But doing so in class, not! 

To keep the record straight, the last time I broached this subject in class was 25 years ago.  It was in a Priesthood class on the resurrection. 

[Calm]

I would love to have this conversation over dinner, checking on how physics, chemistry, and biology science might elucidate...don't have enough time to do speculation decently in class, lol.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

14 minutes ago, Metis_LDS said:

To keep the record straight, the last time I broached this subject in class was 25 years ago.  It was in a Priesthood class on the resurrection. 

Mistakenly, I posted twice.  But, regardless of the class, and when...I was addressing your comments in the thread, not a class I never attended. I will go back and delete the first draft, so there is no confusion. But, if 25 years ago, how do you know it is not a question any member could ask? Well, I have trouble doing an edit, so I guess both must remain. 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[Glenn101]

13 minutes ago, Calm said:

I would love to have this conversation over dinner, checking on how physics, chemistry, and biology science might elucidate...don't have enough time to do speculation decently in class, lol.

I think that is the crux of the question or idea about asking questions. Our classes are primarily to sort of be a guiding light to our own personal studies. There is just a limited amount of time to get a few points across in any one lesson. There are places and forums for the questions of the sort that Metis_LDS has presented where they can be hashed out to everyone's discontent.

Glenn

[changed]

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul"

Everyone knows, people are made from clay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_of_man_from_clay

 

Pregnancy / sex is the cursed fallen way of making people.

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception in sorrow ...

Eve did not have children in her perfect form.  

Heavenly Mother does not have children through pregnancy either (why Jesus had to be born to a handmaid).  

Baptism - not pregnancy - is the perfect way to have children.  ... Adam - formed from dust - is the way to form bodies.... "wonderfully made".  

 

Edited June 7, 2019 by changed

[changed]

On 6/5/2019 at 11:02 AM, Metis_LDS said:

This is not about me being hard on the members of the Church.  But if you think it is feel free to say so.  So the one thing I have found radioactive to discuss in class or out of class is where will our perfected bodies come from?  All that I know points to God not being a magician.  The perfected bodies will not appear out of nowhere.  Things also seem to point to a limited capacity of supply,  as in multiple resurrections.  So the main point is why do members get excited (not in a good way) when I start to ask about where the bodies are going to come from?

Read Gen Ch 1& 2 i you want to know how perfect bodies are formed

[Bernard Gui]

4 hours ago, changed said:

"And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul"

Everyone knows, people are made from clay https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creation_of_man_from_clay

 

Pregnancy / sex is the cursed fallen way of making people.

Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception in sorrow ...

Eve did not have children in her perfect form.  

Heavenly Mother does not have children through pregnancy either (why Jesus had to be born to a handmaid).  

Baptism - not pregnancy - is the perfect way to have children.  ... Adam - formed from dust - is the way to form bodies.... "wonderfully made".  

 

Fallen way? Really? It’s how two become one.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[Metis_LDS]

8 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Mistakenly, I posted twice.  But, regardless of the class, and when...I was addressing your comments in the thread, not a class I never attended. I will go back and delete the first draft, so there is no confusion. But, if 25 years ago, how do you know it is not a question any member could ask? Well, I have trouble doing an edit, so I guess both must remain. 

Dear Bill do not stress out everything is all right.  Yes it is 25 years ago and I was checking to see if attitudes had changed.  I was surprised to be treated here on the board as if I was at Church by more than one person.  I am now sorry that I started this thread and sorry that you got distressed over it.   I know that you have troubles of your own and wish I could fix them for you.

Edited June 7, 2019 by Metis_LDS

[Bernard Gui]

7 minutes ago, Metis_LDS said:

Dear Bill do not stress out everything is all right.  Yes it is 25 years ago and I was checking to see if attitudes had changed.  I was surprised to be treated here on the board as if I was at Church by more than one person.  I am now sorry that I started this thread and sorry that you got distressed over it.   I know that you have troubles of your own and wish I could fix them for you.

There are all manner of folks here. It’s a dynamic and robust discussion group. Not everyone responds the way we think they should. You’ll figure it out.

[Metis_LDS]

So an observation about this board before I go away.   If you find yourself repeating the obvious to those who disagree with you then I respectfully submit that you need a break away from this online world.  It not for your own sanity do it for the sake of the this forum as trying to force others to be as you are will drive others away from here.

[snowflake]

15 hours ago, Carborendum said:

I'm not entirely certain that we know that scientifically or theologically.

Scientists know the universe is expanding, so what is it expanding into?...if it's infinite how can it also be expanding?

[Sevenbak]

On 6/5/2019 at 10:02 AM, Metis_LDS said:

This is not about me being hard on the members of the Church.  But if you think it is feel free to say so.  So the one thing I have found radioactive to discuss in class or out of class is where will our perfected bodies come from?  All that I know points to God not being a magician.  The perfected bodies will not appear out of nowhere.  Things also seem to point to a limited capacity of supply,  as in multiple resurrections.  So the main point is why do members get excited (not in a good way) when I start to ask about where the bodies are going to come from?

One of my favorite stories out of church history lore on this subject is the Zeke Johnson story.   Whether it’s true or not is questionable, but he is certainly earnest and passionate in his telling of it.  

http://emp.byui.edu/huffr/Plan of Salvation/Resurrection/Zeke Johnson experience.pdf

 

If Ezekiel's vision of the valley of dry bones is anything more than just allegorical, then perhaps Zeke’s experience is worth consideration.     

 At the very least, food for thought.

[MustardSeed]

4 hours ago, Metis_LDS said:

So an observation about this board before I go away.   If you find yourself repeating the obvious to those who disagree with you then I respectfully submit that you need a break away from this online world.  It not for your own sanity do it for the sake of the this forum as trying to force others to be as you are will drive others away from here.

Don’t take your toys and go home.  When I first came I was accused of lying about my experiences and was dismissed regarding my observations.  It’s a tough crowd. 

Your question is actually interesting. “How does the resurrection actually work?” Obviously no one has the answer and sometimes like a parent who says “because I said so!”, people don’t like to contemplate things they can’t answer. 

In a group designed to argue, you can expect push back when starting a thread about anything.  The topic is legit! The premise that it’s The One Thing is naturally going to get pushback.  It’s a minor issue.  Stick around, no one minds and you won’t teach anyone a lesson by leaving.  It’s a fine place to learn without all the nastiness of anti Mormon bitterness of other sites. ❤️

[Carborendum]

3 hours ago, snowflake said:

Scientists know the universe is expanding, so what is it expanding into?...if it's infinite how can it also be expanding?

This is a non sequitur. 

• We know that it is expanding because the distance between known matter particles is expanding.  We don't know the outer limits of matter in the universe.
• Infinity can expand into infinity.  That is part of the nature of infinity.  Well, you know the song "If You Could Hie to Kolob".