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The Spirit & religious diversity

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Posted (edited)

This is something that really bothers me - I am not trying to upset anyone or be confrontational here, I really am seeking answers and an understanding of what others make of this.  

How do those who are Mormon view the many other religious faiths?  Do you believe God only works with one group of people?  Do you believe some were privileged because of their pre-mortal life to be born into Mormon families?  Do you believe God is no respecter of persons and loves everyone?  Do you believe everyone will make it to the celestial kingdom?  If you do believe in 3 degrees of glory, do you not want to live with others?  Are you happy to be separated from others?  How do you reconcile "one true faith, one prophet, one church" beliefs with what in reality exists? with a loving God?


Video of different faiths all feeling the spirit, feeling their church is right, and feeling God has called them to their religious group - all very similar.

I have 'felt the spirit' but now I don't even know what that is - it looks like everyone feels the spirit, and feels it for contradictory things, so is it just some emotional thing?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevation_(emotion)

???

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6 minutes ago, JAHS said:

I believe God works with each individual wherever they are. And whichever degree of glory one ends up in, that is where they will be the happiest and most content.

Saying people would be happy in lower degrees of glory tome is like sitting in a castle, saying others would be happy in the slums.  I do not understand how anyone  can be filled with love for others (which is one definition of God), while also saying they do not want to live eternally with everyone, and do not wish what is best for everyone.  

To me, the celestial kingdom is best for all.  The most glorious ending would be everyone together forever.  I could never be happy in heaven if I knew others were suffering in hell.  I do not understand how anyone would be happy without being together with everyone.  

Edited by changed

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21 minutes ago, changed said:

This is something that really bothers me - I am not trying to upset anyone or be confrontational here, I really am seeking answers and an understanding of what others make of this.  

How do those who are Mormon view the many other religious faiths?  Do you believe God only works with one group of people?  Do you believe some were privileged because of their pre-mortal life to be born into Mormon families?  Do you believe God is no respecter of persons and loves everyone?  Do you believe everyone will make it to the celestial kingdom?  If you do believe in 3 degrees of glory, do you not want to live with others?  Are you happy to be separated from others?  How do you reconcile "one true faith, one prophet, one church" beliefs with what in reality exists? with a loving God?


Video of different faiths all feeling the spirit, feeling their church is right, and feeling God has called them to their religious group - all very similar.

I have 'felt the spirit' but now I don't even know what that is - it looks like everyone feels the spirit, and feels it for contradictory things, so is it just some emotional thing?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevation_(emotion)

???

I find this misunderstanding relatively often among Latter-day Saints. The Body of Christ enfolds all those who look upon Jesus Christ as the Son of God. This knowledge immediately emphasizes that God is working with diverse groups/churches to preach his gospel. Further, scripture tells us that God works with all his children and gives them the truths they are capable of living. The understanding further emphasizes that God not only works with his children that follow his Son, but he works with and through all cultures, peoples, and religions. 

One of the pitfalls of thinking that God has claimed that he has a true Church on the earth; one that has the authority to act in his name and seal his ordinances on both earth and in heaven is that ergo all other churches and religions are false. This paints with too broad a brush stroke and is not what God has said. There are false teachers everywhere - it does not take long to recognize false teachers on this board much less in the world at large. 

I appreciate Brigham's statement regarding truth - we claim it wherever it is found as our own. God's church may possess his authority and the truths necessary to exalt its members, but it is not the sole source of all truth. That is falsehood and our teachings indicate that. We have yet to receive many great and precious truths. We should learn from other faiths, religions, and holy individuals upon the earth how best to serve God and his children. 

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19 minutes ago, changed said:

Saying people would be happy in lower degrees of glory tome is like sitting in a castle, saying others would be happy in the slums.  I do not understand how anyone  can be filled with love for others (which is one definition of God), while also saying they do not want to live eternally with everyone, and do not wish what is best for everyone.  

To me, the celestial kingdom is best for all.  The most glorious ending would be everyone together forever.  I could never be happy in heaven if I knew others were suffering in hell.  I do not understand how anyone would be happy without being together with everyone.  

That's if you believe in the CK, when you let that go it's a lot easier to swallow. And the fact that everyone will have salvation with Jesus Christ being our Saviour, but the COJCOLDS believes you can go one better and become gods or be exalted. That is what this church is all about, and the meat of the gospel. And while I was true believing, I believed that it was the only place God is so that was a driving force. Now I'm fine with Jesus because in many faiths He is God. And God really hasn't been in my life, I've tried but He never comes through, therefore what I don't know won't hurt me. I'd be fine with Jesus, He at least came down to sacrifice. Still trying to hold onto that belief anyhow. 

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35 minutes ago, changed said:

Saying people would be happy in lower degrees of glory tome is like sitting in a castle, saying others would be happy in the slums.  I do not understand how anyone  can be filled with love for others (which is one definition of God), while also saying they do not want to live eternally with everyone, and do not wish what is best for everyone.  

To me, the celestial kingdom is best for all.  The most glorious ending would be everyone together forever.  I could never be happy in heaven if I knew others were suffering in hell.  I do not understand how anyone would be happy without being together with everyone.  

So it is better that instead of allowing each to choose for themselves that God does everything in his power to bring everyone back to him? Whose plan is that? What is the purpose of Exaltation? Is anyone prevented from from entering into Exaltation?

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39 minutes ago, changed said:

This is something that really bothers me - I am not trying to upset anyone or be confrontational here, I really am seeking answers and an understanding of what others make of this.  

How do those who are Mormon view the many other religious faiths?  Do you believe God only works with one group of people?  Do you believe some were privileged because of their pre-mortal life to be born into Mormon families?  Do you believe God is no respecter of persons and loves everyone?  Do you believe everyone will make it to the celestial kingdom?  If you do believe in 3 degrees of glory, do you not want to live with others?  Are you happy to be separated from others?  How do you reconcile "one true faith, one prophet, one church" beliefs with what in reality exists? with a loving God?


Video of different faiths all feeling the spirit, feeling their church is right, and feeling God has called them to their religious group - all very similar.

I have 'felt the spirit' but now I don't even know what that is - it looks like everyone feels the spirit, and feels it for contradictory things, so is it just some emotional thing?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevation_(emotion)

???

From what I've seen, what people call "the spirit" can be different things. I think people who feel "the spirit" might be feeling their conscience, the Light of Christ, the power of the Holy Ghost, neurons pleasantly firing, awe at any of the Lord's creations, etc. As long as "the spirit" prompts someone to love God and His children, I'd say they are moving in the right direction, and God will work with any individual or group that is moving in the right direction. Denomination and "fulness" are only a matter of opportunity and agency.

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Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, changed said:

Do you believe God only works with one group of people? 

   Can not answer this one until works with is more defined.

 

57 minutes ago, changed said:

Do you believe some were privileged because of their pre-mortal life to be born into Mormon families? 

    Do not know or care. I was not born into a Mormon family it was more like Hell on Earth.

 

57 minutes ago, changed said:

Do you believe God is no respecter of persons and loves everyone?

     YES!

 

57 minutes ago, changed said:

Do you believe everyone will make it to the celestial kingdom?

    Not everyone will be there.

 

57 minutes ago, changed said:

If you do believe in 3 degrees of glory, do you not want to live with others?  Are you happy to be separated from others? 

     As long as I am with my wife I am not too worried about the others. I might add that they do not seem to be too worried about me.

 

57 minutes ago, changed said:

How do you reconcile "one true faith, one prophet, one church" beliefs with what in reality exists? with a loving God?

    God is not a God of confusion. Plus we are attempting to do all the work for the dead so that they can be equal with us if they choose.

 

57 minutes ago, changed said:

I am not trying to upset anyone or be confrontational here, I really am seeking answers and an understanding of what others make of this.  

 It does nor matter if you upset me, what matters is when you find the truth you can accept it.  Truth is a hard thing it bends to no one.

Edited by Metis_LDS
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43 minutes ago, changed said:

This is something that really bothers me - I am not trying to upset anyone or be confrontational here, I really am seeking answers and an understanding of what others make of this.  

How do those who are Mormon view the many other religious faiths?  Do you believe God only works with one group of people?  Do you believe some were privileged because of their pre-mortal life to be born into Mormon families?  Do you believe God is no respecter of persons and loves everyone?  Do you believe everyone will make it to the celestial kingdom?  If you do believe in 3 degrees of glory, do you not want to live with others?  Are you happy to be separated from others?  How do you reconcile "one true faith, one prophet, one church" beliefs with what in reality exists? with a loving God?


Video of different faiths all feeling the spirit, feeling their church is right, and feeling God has called them to their religious group - all very similar.

I have 'felt the spirit' but now I don't even know what that is - it looks like everyone feels the spirit, and feels it for contradictory things, so is it just some emotional thing?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevation_(emotion)

???

I believe God works with everyone that listens to Him.  The scriptures show Him using those who do not believe on Him or who are not members of His covenant people.

I believe God assigned each of us for different roles on this Earth.  I believe many of the best in the pre-mortal life are not assigned to His covenant people (aka "Mormon families" in our days) but instead have important places outside of His covenant people.

I believe God is no respecter of persons and loves everyone.  He wants all of us to return to Him.  We choose where we go, though.  I do not believe that those who reject Christ with full knowledge at the Judgement Day will be allowed into any of the Kingdoms.  I also do not believe that those who commit horrible atrocities on this earth and understand those are horrible atrocities will be allowed in the Celestial Kingdom.  I believe that God is saddened because of their choices and that He would prefer they return to Him.  I expect to be sad just like Him because of their choices.

I don't understand your last question.  How does "one true faith, one prophet, one church" have any affect on the fact of different people having different beliefs?  Throughout scripture history, we have had "one true faith, one prophet, one church" and people with different beliefs.

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1 hour ago, changed said:

How do you reconcile "one true faith, one prophet, one church" beliefs with what in reality exists? with a loving God?

"One true..." does not mean the only one with truth.  It is more about authority than anything else. 

Absolutely, the Holy Spirit works in the hearts of all men/women, and in every faith.  But why should we expect every person/faith to come to the same interpretations and conclusions?  The Holy Spirit does not remove the human element and natural process of developmental understanding.  The spirit necessarily must pass through human filters of cultural upbringing, bias, and different perspectives.  It is really no different from two scientists or historians looking at the same evidence and coming to two different and conflicting interpretations of the same data.  This is expected.  The point is to be true to the light that has been given you to the best of your ability and by your best understanding at the time.  As we do so, the Lord will direct us into more light.  Each piece of light will give more understanding to previous light, and our overall perspective evolves.  All faiths are partly in the right, but all are in the wrong.  Even the one true church is an imperfect vessel, but it is the one authorized to fulfill the purposes of the Lord. 

Edited by pogi
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58 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

I find this misunderstanding relatively often among Latter-day Saints. The Body of Christ enfolds all those who look upon Jesus Christ as the Son of God. This knowledge immediately emphasizes that God is working with diverse groups/churches to preach his gospel. Further, scripture tells us that God works with all his children and gives them the truths they are capable of living. The understanding further emphasizes that God not only works with his children that follow his Son, but he works with and through all cultures, peoples, and religions. 

One of the pitfalls of thinking that God has claimed that he has a true Church on the earth; one that has the authority to act in his name and seal his ordinances on both earth and in heaven is that ergo all other churches and religions are false. This paints with too broad a brush stroke and is not what God has said. There are false teachers everywhere - it does not take long to recognize false teachers on this board much less in the world at large. 

I appreciate Brigham's statement regarding truth - we claim it wherever it is found as our own. God's church may possess his authority and the truths necessary to exalt its members, but it is not the sole source of all truth. That is falsehood and our teachings indicate that. We have yet to receive many great and precious truths. We should learn from other faiths, religions, and holy individuals upon the earth how best to serve God and his children. 

This sounds like a denial of the implications of believing that the brethren are the only ones with authority.  Of course one would and should think that the one and only claim means the others are less than and "false."  If one follows one of the less than churches, supposedly that person is not getting everything and will fall short of the glory of God.  It's E. Holland's wrong road.  Why not just own your belief?

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I wrote this a while back, considering how LDS religious experience works in the context of comparative religion.

http://oneclimbs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/model_of_experience.pdf

It also includes an appendix showing more than 30 different ways that prayers can be answered, and another appendix comparing Emerson's Threnody with Joseph Smith's letter from Liberty Jail.

Notice that the exclusive phrase "one true faith, one prophet, one church" does not appear in D&C 1:30, where D&C 1 as a whole is a formal statement of "mine authority, and the authority of my servants".  D&C 1 is expressly non-exclusive with regard to truth, virtue, and revelation.  "Well-pleasingness" with respect to what "true and living" means is something else. Because that formal "one church" claim does not appear in our scriptures, we don't need to reconcile with it.  If you want to understand its origins, look to the Perry Scheme of Cognitive and Ethical Growth.  It's a phase of human development, not a distinctive trait of Mormonism.

Quote

PERRY SCHEME OF COGNITIVE AND ETHICAL GROWTH

TABLE OF TRAITS BY POSITION AND TRANSITION

POSITION 1 - Basic Duality.  (Garden of Eden Position: All will be well.)

The person perceives meaning divided into two realms-Good/Bad, Right/wrong, We/They, Success/Failure, etc. They believe that knowledge and goodness are quantitative, that there are absolute answers for every problem and authorities know them and will teach them to those who will work hard and memorize them.

Agency is "Out there". The person is so embedded here that there is no place from which to observe themselves, yet they have a dim sense of there being a boundary to Otherness somewhere that gives their Eden-like world view boundary.

 

Transition 1-2 - Dualism modified.  (Snake whispers.) The person starts to be aware of others and of differing opinions, even among authorities. This started the feeling of uncertainty.  But they decide it is part of the authority's job to pose problems.  It takes hard work to deny the legitimacy of diversity and to keep the belief in the simplicity of truth.

 

(It should be kept in mind that in any of the transition states it is easy for the person to become depressed.  It takes time for the "guts to catch up with leaps of mind."  When a sense of loss is accorded the honor of acknowledgement, movement is more rapid and the risk of getting stuck in apathy, alienation, or depression is reduced.  When one steps into new perceptions he is unlikely to take another until he comes to terms with the losses attendant on the first.)

 

POSITION 2 - Multiplicity Prelegitimate.  (Resisting snake)

 

Now the person moves to accept that there is diversity, but they still think there are TRUE authorities who are right, that the others are confused by complexities or are just frauds.  They think they are with the true authorities and are right while all others are wrong.  They accept that their good authorities present problems so they can learn to reach right answers independently. 

I've elsewhere made the case that Joseph Smith by example and precept, tries to get us to Position 9.

https://www.mormoninterpreter.com/sophic-box-and-mantic-vista-a-review-of-deconstructing-mormonism/

FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

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I was just thinking of this story told by Brad Wilcox that has a little bit to do with this topic.  He tells this story in his "His Grace is Sufficient" talk.

"I know a young man who just got out of prison—again. Each time two roads diverge in a yellow wood, he takes the wrong one—every time. When he was a teenager dealing with every bad habit a teenage boy can have, I said to his father, “We need to get him to EFY.” I have worked with that program since 1985. I know the good it can do.

His dad said, “I can’t afford that.”

I said, “I can’t afford it either, but you put some in, and I’ll put some in, and then we’ll go to my mom, because she is a real softy.”

We finally got the kid to EFY, but how long do you think he lasted? Not even a day. By the end of the first day he called his mother and said, “Get me out of here!” Heaven will not be heaven for those who have not chosen to be heavenly."

I've been in similar situations myself, where I was not in the frame of mind or living the right way to get anything out of a spiritual place.  While others were so happy and excited to be there, I was bored and would have much rather been somewhere else.  And I've been on the flip side of it too, unable to understand how someone could be so unhappy in a place where I had found so much joy. 

Our choices affect our perceptions.  Not everyone will want the same thing after death because not everyone will see things the same way.  Different choices make different people.  If someone has not chosen to follow Christ then that person will be a different person, and want different things, than a person who has chosen to follow Him.

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1 hour ago, changed said:

This is something that really bothers me - I am not trying to upset anyone or be confrontational here, I really am seeking answers and an understanding of what others make of this.  

How do those who are Mormon view the many other religious faiths?  Do you believe God only works with one group of people?  Do you believe some were privileged because of their pre-mortal life to be born into Mormon families?  Do you believe God is no respecter of persons and loves everyone?  Do you believe everyone will make it to the celestial kingdom?  If you do believe in 3 degrees of glory, do you not want to live with others?  Are you happy to be separated from others?  How do you reconcile "one true faith, one prophet, one church" beliefs with what in reality exists? with a loving God?


Video of different faiths all feeling the spirit, feeling their church is right, and feeling God has called them to their religious group - all very similar.

I have 'felt the spirit' but now I don't even know what that is - it looks like everyone feels the spirit, and feels it for contradictory things, so is it just some emotional thing?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elevation_(emotion)

???

I view other faiths as potentially bringing others to Terrestrial glory or prepping them for exaltation. God works with everyone. Some people were born into the gospel due to premortal worthiness but we have no way to judge that in the aggregate. Many of the strongest people I know are converts. God does not respect persons but he does respect attempts at righteousness. I do not believe everyone will reach celestial glory. Of course I do not want to live with some others, some people are awful. As an introvert yes, I often like being separa ted from others.

1 hour ago, changed said:

Saying people would be happy in lower degrees of glory tome is like sitting in a castle, saying others would be happy in the slums.  I do not understand how anyone  can be filled with love for others (which is one definition of God), while also saying they do not want to live eternally with everyone, and do not wish what is best for everyone.  

To me, the celestial kingdom is best for all.  The most glorious ending would be everyone together forever.  I could never be happy in heaven if I knew others were suffering in hell.  I do not understand how anyone would be happy without being together with everyone.  

That sounds noble but think through what you are saying. Those who choose hell chose it. Anyone who sincerely wants and seeks happiness will find it. Your approach allows any wicked person to ruin paradise for everyone because they refuse to be happy unless it is on their terms. You are giving hell an absolute veto over heaven and the ability to destroy the happiness of others. We see this in mortality too when we have to sever or limit relationships due to the toxic nature of some people and how they do nothing but spread misery. Your idea of heaven is crying forever that they are getting exactly what they sought?

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11 minutes ago, Kevin Christensen said:

I wrote this a while back, considering how LDS religious experience works in the context of comparative religion.

http://oneclimbs.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/model_of_experience.pdf

It also includes an appendix showing more than 30 different ways that prayers can be answered, and another appendix comparing Emerson's Threnody with Joseph Smith's letter from Liberty Jail.

Notice that the exclusive phrase "one true faith, one prophet, one church" does not appear in D&C 1:30, where D&C 1 as a whole is a formal statement of "mine authority, and the authority of my servants".  D&C 1 is expressly non-exclusive with regard to truth, virtue, and revelation.  "Well-pleasingness" with respect to what "true and living" means is something else. Because that formal "one church" claim does not appear in our scriptures, we don't need to reconcile with it.  If you want to understand its origins, look to the Perry Scheme of Cognitive and Ethical Growth.  It's a phase of human development, not a distinctive trait of Mormonism.

I've elsewhere made the case that Joseph Smith by example and precept, tries to get us to Position 9.

https://www.mormoninterpreter.com/sophic-box-and-mantic-vista-a-review-of-deconstructing-mormonism/

FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

Agreed.

Are there any studies of the percentage break down of rankings in particular communities ?

Somehow this way of thinking must be spread in our community, and I know you are trying. Perhaps we need to be less subtle about it? 

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3 hours ago, changed said:

Saying people would be happy in lower degrees of glory tome is like sitting in a castle, saying others would be happy in the slums.

Not really. We are not in the castle yet, or even the slums (though it sounds more like mini mansions than slums), but all out on the seemingly endless plains surrounding God’s kingdoms on the hill. We, along with everyone else living are still on that journey. We haven’t even solidified our choice on where our journey ends. We may end up in our own mini mansion rather than living in our Father’s glorious home. Our ultimate choice will be shaped by all other choices we make while on our way there. 

At this point our fellow travelers may end up on the hilltop while we are further down, but still with great views because the view is beautiful anywhere.

In fact, if I understand the requirements for sons of perdition, pretty much only those ultimately choosing to be of the Saint party of travelers can choose to end up rejecting God’s truth so completely as to do that one must have the full truth first and that must include having been given the full ordinances st some point. SoPs sound like to me the only ones choosing a destiny of slum living. 

Edited by Calm
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2 hours ago, changed said:

saying they do not want to live eternally with everyone, and do not wish what is best for everyone.  

But saying we don’t want to force others to live with God (as we hope that we will be making the choice to live with God and all those who choose to do so) is NOT saying that isn’t our preference (most of us from what I can tell would be very happy if everyone choose to be fully one with God) and it IS most definitely saying we want the Best for everyone...but we leave the choice of what is best up to them and God. We have no right to tell others what they want and need to be.  It would be cruel to insist they mold themselves into something they don’t want to be. 

God is not the kind of parent who insists everyone comes into the family business or he will disown them. He is the kind of parent who will do whatever he can to support his children in becoming what they aspire to be for themselves. 

Edited by Calm
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11 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Agreed.

Are there any studies of the percentage break down of rankings in particular communities ?

Somehow this way of thinking must be spread in our community, and I know you are trying. Perhaps we need to be less subtle about it? 

I haven't seen any percentage studies, haven't looked, and wouldn't know where to look, and I see far more discussion of Fowler's Stages of Faith (which sorts people by the conclusions they come to) than of the Perry Scheme (which sorts people by how they process information), alas.

I've been beating my drum on this for decades.  Most people march to the sound of the drummers they hear, and few hear mine in all the hubbub.  Being an out of the way amateur without institutional backing, I should not expect much.  When I first figured out True and Living in the early 90s, I presented at a Bay Area Sunstone, expecting that intellectual community there would get it.   But they looked like stunned bunnies.  As a consequence of such experiences, I often think of a place in Structure of Scientific Revolutions where Kuhn discusses an experiment where subjects are asked to identify playing cards, without being told that some of the cards are anomalous, such as a red Queen of Spades.  Because they anomalous cards are unexpected, most people simply do not see them for what they are, and instead see what they expect.  This sort of thing is every day for me in my writing, where it is easy to overlook misspelled words because the brain adjusts and shows me what I expected rather than what is there.  People have to seek, looking for greater light and knowledge, rather than re-enforcement of existing expectations.  When I edit my own work, I have to do so with an awareness of my own weakness, and be willing to make the extra effort to see my own mistakes, to remove the beam from my own eye, that I might then see clearly.

FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

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4 hours ago, changed said:

Very interesting video.  I don't think I've encountered this powerful a challenge to my testimony in decades.  Bad enough the Islamic lady prayed so earnestly to choose between Christianity and Islam.  The Heaven's Gate suicide cult's spiritual witness?  Dang - sounds waaaay too similar to mine.   Heh.  I appreciate the apologetic way you open this post - I believe you when you say you're not trying to upset anyone.  

I think my testimony remains intact.  Things I've said and believed for a while:
- Ultimately, the only valid reason to be a member of the Restored Church of Jesus Christ, is you believe God wants you to be one.

- I've personally witnessed people going through an intense period of spiritual growth, drawing them away from one faith and towards another.  And I've also personally witnessed that person crossing paths with someone going through a very similar experience, heading in the exact opposite direction. 

- Life got ten, a hundred, a thousand times easier when I read this article from Elder Oaks, and discovered that it's often ok to just sit there with a dumb look on my face and cast no judgment.  More than ok, I'm best off not judging in many situations.   

- The Oaks article, judge a tree by its fruit, and "Be still and trust in God" gets me through this video.  I don't have to know the answer to everything.  Although my testimony is based on an undeniable (and recurring) spiritual witness, which moved me from "I believe" to "I know", I can still place my trust in the Lord and walk in faith.  If He wants me to go be a scientologist, He knows how to pull me in that direction.  Until then, my testimony remains as unblemished as before I encountered this thread. 

- Paul's discourse on charity in 1st Corinthians put me in my place whenever I want to start disrespecting someone else because of their beliefs.

4 hours ago, changed said:

I have 'felt the spirit' but now I don't even know what that is - it looks like everyone feels the spirit, and feels it for contradictory things, so is it just some emotional thing?

My best advice for you, is be true to what you've experienced - not what others have experienced just because it took them in a different direction.  

Edited by LoudmouthMormon
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2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

And while I was true believing, I believed that it was the only place God is so that was a driving force.

If you meant the doctrine is that God is only with Saints, what you believed isn't a teaching or doctrine of the Church imo.

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The Gospel incorporates all truth.   And Heavenly Father's plan calls for every one of His children to be redeemed.   There are a lot of people trying to live like God (whatever they call Him) wants them too.   And there are people of every faith and no faith who are living various principles of the Gospel of Jesus Christ even if they do not know they are.   So it is also likely that the Holy Ghost is confirming that those principles are truth to a whole lot of people, even if they've never heard of the restored Church of Jesus Christ.

What that restored Church has is NOT a lock on truth, but a lock on authority and required ordinances needed to return to Him, and exposure to current revelation by a Prophet of God ----- all of which is profoundly helpful and a blessing of immeasurable worth.   So of course others who don't know more, believe that their faith is the one true.   That is not bad, though obviously it is factually wrong and thus leads some astray or prevents their progression.

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1 hour ago, Metis_LDS said:

Truth is a hard thing it bends to no one.

Christ said his yoke is easy.

I think part of that is when one comes to understand God is reaching out to all and he is even willing to grab us and pull us in, but he won't hold on to anyone intentionally biting and clawing to get away from him.  Those who don't understand what he is doing and therefore strike out in panic, he still draws in if he knows that is what they truly want.  

God lets people be who they are and become what they want to be and go where they want to go,

How could it be heaven if we don't want to be there?

What would be exalting in exaltation if it turned us all into Stepford wives and husbands rather than the finest and most interesting and gifted version of ourself that we want?

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1 hour ago, Exiled said:

This sounds like a denial of the implications of believing that the brethren are the only ones with authority.  Of course one would and should think that the one and only claim means the others are less than and "false."  If one follows one of the less than churches, supposedly that person is not getting everything and will fall short of the glory of God.  It's E. Holland's wrong road.  Why not just own your belief?

Because that is not our belief.

Even if one accepts your interpretation for what it means in mortality (I don't), there is a lot more progression prejudgment than that.  There was premortality and postmortality where Joseph Smith said it would take a long while even for those who got there already endowed to fully understand what that means.  There is no reason to assume that simple because a person is currently operating on partial truth and some falsehoods that in the end they will fall short.  If that were true even Saints would be doomed because we don't have all truth and being human, we likely understand at least some of the truth that we have incorrectly.

All things are possible with God including him stepping in and pulling us the rest of the way when we can't walk it by ourselves.

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12 minutes ago, rpn said:

leads some astray or prevents their progression

I would say "impedes their progression until they have the truth revealed to them, in this life or the next".  "Prevents" could be interpreted to be final.

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