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strappinglad

Changes to the Lord's Prayer

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Looks like the Pope just got the same revelation Joseph got about 200 years ago.

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Old news.

 

The pope said the Lord’s Prayer needs reworking.

After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.

To bad Joseph smith said it first.

Jst 
9Therefore after this manner shall ye pray, saying,
10Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
11Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done on earth, as it is done in heaven.
12Give us this day, our daily bread.
13And forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us.
14And suffer us not to be led into temptation, but deliver us from evil.
15For thine is the kingdom and the power, and the glory, forever and ever. Amen.

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2017/dec/08/lead-us-not-into-mistranslation-pope-wants-lords-prayer-changed

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7 hours ago, strappinglad said:

I am a traditionalist, and Jesus Christ gave us this model of prayer. He gave it in answer to one of his Apostles, asked; “Lord, how should we pray”,  so, I think it prudent to use his words (Christ’s Words, or template), and not the words of what others may have said. In my mind this will reduce and error, any error on our part. It is tough enough, grouping around in the dark for answers. Paul has taught us, that  “in this like we see through a glass darkly”. But Prayer, or at least, “The Lord’s prayer”, were we not left with ambiguity. 

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Sorry papa , but if you take any of Christ's words from the KJV and go to the internet and look up all the dozens of versions of the Bible , you will find many different translations. There is actually a site that does give most of the versions at once. As far as this particular scripture , my soft brain thinks God would not ' lead ' us into temptation but would try to keep us from being led into temptation. 

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1) Does not LDS theology teach that God does indeed lead us into temptation? Isn´t the 2nd Estate one big leading into temptation? That we come willingly does not mean that Heavenly Father did not lead us here.

2) A light treatment:

https://theconversation.com/lead-us-not-into-temptation-why-pope-francis-is-wrong-about-the-lords-prayer-88886

3) A thorough treatment by Spurgeon:
https://www.spurgeon.org/resource-library/sermons/lead-us-not-into-temptation#flipbook/

A reminder for Jorge:

Let us always be afraid of attempting improvements on God's perfect Word, and when our theories will not stand with divinely revealed truth let us alter our theories, but let us never attempt for one single moment to put one word of God out of its place.  - Spurgeon
 

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Do your ceremonies and prayers in Enochian or get out.

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14 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

I am a traditionalist, and Jesus Christ gave us this model of prayer. He gave it in answer to one of his Apostles, asked; “Lord, how should we pray”,  so, I think it prudent to use his words (Christ’s Words, or template), and not the words of what others may have said. In my mind this will reduce and error, any error on our part. It is tough enough, grouping around in the dark for answers. Paul has taught us, that  “in this like we see through a glass darkly”. But Prayer, or at least, “The Lord’s prayer”, were we not left with ambiguity. 

So do you use Luke's version or Matthew's? Do you say it in Greek? Or do you use the original Aramaic? How are you sure it was remembered and transmitted correctly when those authors included it their Gospels decades after Jesus may or may not have offered it?

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52 minutes ago, the narrator said:

So do you use Luke's version or Matthew's? Do you say it in Greek? Or do you use the original Aramaic? How are you sure it was remembered and transmitted correctly when those authors included it their Gospels decades after Jesus may or may not have offered it?

Since I speak English, no I don’t use other languages, like other world religions that believe you can only use one language. As, I do not think that God only speaks one language, and only answers prayers given in that language. I believe in a God that is all knowing, and certainly a God who is multi-lingual, even a God who understands my copious spelling errors, or so I hope. Since I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I pray as it appears in Matthew, as I am instructed, and do not quibble over the minor changes in Latin, of another version. Nor, am I seeking to argue the difference in scripture, or errors in translation. But, if someone else what’s to go down that loaded question and road, let then dive into the pool at the end of that debate. 

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I just hope it doesn't change the song.

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"do not let us fall into temptation,"

I would change it to "help us to not fall into temptation"

If we choose to fall into temptation He will let it happen. 

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18 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

I am a traditionalist, and Jesus Christ gave us this model of prayer. He gave it in answer to one of his Apostles, asked; “Lord, how should we pray”, 

In my opinion Jesus taught his disciples 'how' to pray, not 'what words to use' to pray.  Unfortunately, this
prayer has become a mechanical set of words said by some because they really don't know how to pray
to God using their own words.   I once asked my mom if she prayed.  She replied, 'Oh yes. I say the Our
Father
or the Hail Mary every night?'

Jim

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Do your ceremonies and prayers in Enochian or get out.

Nice!

One of the minor reasons that I love Latin for my ceremonies and prayers is nothing ever changes because of translation issues. I'll keep saying my "Pater Nosters" and they will still include "et ne nos inducas in tentationem" despite what is in the Italian missal.

(It's good to note that this approval is for the 3rd edition of the Italian translation of the Mass, so you want see it in English Masses, well, not yet at least)

Edited by MiserereNobis
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